In case anyone was wondering, the Men Going Their Own Way movement has managed to survive the implosion of MGTOWforums.com that I wrote about a little while ago. Yep, the regulars from there have moved on to several new forums where they continue to celebrate their independence from the women of the world by happily discussing such manly hobbies as video games, model trains, taxidermy and knitting.
Oh, who am I kidding? They don’t talk about any of that stuff. Basically they continue to nurse their grudges against the women who wouldn’t date them in high school, somehow convincing themselves that the best way to be “free” of women is to obsess about them every minute of every day.
Take the charming fella who calls himself ManWithAPlan, who has managed to win himself nearly 1900 “likes” from his comrades on the MGTOW HQ message boards with comments like the following:
I hate [women] because most of them acted like stuck up cunts when they were young and hot. Then they hit 30+ and decide to settle down, and when there are no men to settle down, they start shaming men. This is where most of my hate/negativity comes from, the fact that these women feel entitled to “good” men after having spent the last 15-20 years telling guys “just because you bought me a drink/dinner doesn’t mean I owe you sex”.
And every woman acts this way. Oh you want to slut it up? Sure go ahead and be a cum rag, but I would never date a cum rag. And how would they react to that? “Oh well that’s your preference and you’re entitled to it”. Yeah right, they’d flip their shit and go into shaming language ahoy.
The reason I derive so much pleasure from this is because for the first time in their lives women are being held accountable for their actions. And they don’t fucking like it. Remember when some girl/woman got you in trouble for just crying while you weren’t in the wrong? This is fucking payback.
(Emphasis mine.)
This may sound a little harsh, but you need to remember that for most young women, life is just an endless VIP party:
Women are born with their so called value. By 15 or whatever they have the looks and power to attract most men. By 18, depending on how attractive they are, they’re either dating 30 year old millionaires or (if less attractive) fucking the football team. And they retain this value until at some point into their 30’s, sometimes 40’s. Men get nothing. We are born invisible. We have to claw, work and suffer for 2-3 decades before we get any recognition. And by that point, we no longer have the energy or fast metabolism we had in our youth. So that means double time for us.
Women are handed the world on a silver platter, men have to fight for it.
Is the MGTOW movement the least successful “independence” movement ever? They’re like someone who breaks up with you, angrily marches out the front door, slams it behind them — and then spends the next five years on your front porch peering in the window.
I was about to say “Well, maybe 90%”, but then I remembered that the 18-34 male demographic stole “My Little Pony”, so… yeah. All.
Lurker here…
One thing that I just don’t understand (one thing?).
What do they think women DO all day? They always complain about women wanting money and support – like we don’t work?
They complain about their taxes supporting women – what? Women don’t pay taxes?
What is this world they live in?
But then, feminists developed that Tool of All Evil called the Bedchel Test, to make sure they opress men by… well… making more interesting women appear on screen and talk among themselves at all!
My cousin plays college football, so… that’s a huge turn-off. And I like my cousin and think he’s a nice guy. But cousin…
I also went to a college where there were no football players. Who was I supposed to screw, the cross-country ski team? If it was coed, do I have do screw the women too?
You know, I might have been up for that if I’d managed to have a social life.
(BRB, fantasizing about cross-country skiers.)
Of course men are born invisible. Men don’t have a gender, but women do. That’s how male privilege works.
Wait, he’s complaining that hot ladies don’t lift their skirts for drinks, but then calls women who are sexually active, on their own terms and clearly not with him, cumrags?
What is this strange fixation misogynists have with their bodily fluids and how dirty and gross they think semen is?
I cannot wrap my head around how they think that men’s bodies are so foul and their jizz is so gross that touching the male body and coming in contact with jizz ruins a woman forever. Do they think it doesn’t wash off? Do they think women’s bodies are that much better than theirs that our cum leaves no mark of shame of our lovers, but thier lovers are tainted eternally? Is that homophobia taken to such a bizarre extreme that men have to hate their own bodies lest they be a little gay for themselves? Also, have they never heard of condoms? Do they really have old tatty rags designated for cum clean-up? Is that some sort of self-punishment, like wearing a hair shirt? Why can’t they get some nice fluffy wash cloths and towels and clean themselves up with scented soap? Is that misandry? When they wank, do they use gloves and avert their eyes or do they consider themselves so unclean that it’s a lost cause? So bizarre.
This dudebro’s whole whine is that ladies won’t fall all over themselves to touch his knob, so he hates them. (Sure, dude. I’m sure it wasn’t the hate that led to your lack of popularity with women.) Why he thinks anyone should want to jump on his dick like a duck on a June Bug, I don’t know. Drinks and dinner really are not payment for sexual services. If he’d like to buy some sex directly, there are professionals he can see. But he’s sure women are getting more sex and having more fun than he is and that makes him so angry. He’s another entitled, petty, bigoted jackass. The act that he thinks ruins women, is the very act that he’s bitterly jealous that he cannot participate in. Those are some sour grapes he sees women eating.
What a sorry sack of douche.
We have to fuck them if they’re at all nice to us, but obviously we’re not allowed to have fucked any other guys first! It reminds me of a hilarious scene from Daria. I tried really hard to find the clip and couldn’t, but I can paraphrase from memory.
Jane drags Daria to a high school party full of popular kids. These two cheesy guys come up to them and start hitting on them.
Cheesy guy: “Where have you been all our lives?”
Daria: “Right here in this room. We were born here. We spent our lives here. We thought we’d die here alone. But now you’re here and our lives can truly begin.”
Of course Daria was being sarcastic. But this reflects really accurately what the ideal woman is for a MGTOW.
Even though I couldn’t find the clip, here is a collection of Daria quotes. If anyone isn’t familiar, you should watch it. Daria would be a great Manboobz commenter!
In HS I didn’t date jocks or men in their 30’s. I dated a sweet and funny body builder on the chess team, a quiet, outdoorsy cellist who was into AV, then a hunky theater nerd with an amazing sense of humor and finally, the man who would be Hubby. They were all groovy people. I’m lucky to have had such lovely young men in my life.
I love Daria! Sarcasm at it’s finest.
I also dated some awesome guys. Each one different. Three of them I’m still in touch with occasionally- they’ve long since gotten married and had kids, like me. I wish them well.
The fourth I haven’t kept in touch with, but I hope he’s doing well also.
Oh, I did date one sexist guy. After a few internal alarm bells went off, I dumped him.
Wonder if he’s a MGTOW now?
So millionaires: Let’s do a Fermi estimation. According to the Wiki, there are 9.5 million of them.
If we assume that, say, 90% of them are men and 25% of them are in a desireable age bracket (and I’m probably highballing the latter figure quite a bit, since millionaire ages skew high), that’s around 2 million youngish male millionaires.
They did say that only the more attractive women got to date the millionaires, so let’s say the top 10%. That’s 350 million women. So each millionaire would have to date around 175 women.
If you say that only the top 1% of women get to date millionaires, that brings it down to a more manageable 18 women per millionaire. But a) by the time you’re only talking about 1 out of 100 women, you’re not really talking about “what women are doing” anymore, and b) it still assumes that each attractive woman only dates one millionaire; if the hot women are “sleeping around,” presumably they’d have to date maybe three millionaires each at a bare minimum, bringing the total up to 54 women per millionaire.
I don’t know how to estimate how many football players are in the world.
The solution to the sex drought seems obvious to me – these guys need to make sure they’re millionaires by 30 and then they can have all the teenagers they want!
One of my favourite lines out of the graphic novel “Incognegro” is Zane musing on race as he prepares to pass for white to investigate a murder in the South:
“That’s what white folks never get. They don’t think they have accents. They don’t think they eat ethnic foods. Their music is classical. They think they’re just normal. That they are the universal and that everyone else is an odd deviation from form.”
The same could be said for straight, cis, male, or Christian (at least in the same nations where “white” is default.)
@ Kim:
Exactly. MGTOW: What happens when you learn literally everything you know about women from sitcom stereotypes.
“Remember when some girl/woman got you in trouble for just crying while you weren’t in the wrong?”
Ouch. There is a story to be told, or a confession rather, right there. Cuz, you know, girls / women constantly get you, Nice Guys, in trouble for just crying while you are not in the wrong (cuz of course you never are).
OT, but this is the most horrific r/MR thread I have ever stumbled upon: http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/2275j2/trigger_warning_have_you_all_seen_this_thread/
Let’s just say I should have paid attention to the trigger warning. It’s so upsetting.
@ leatapp
I have seen some rather odd statements about how undesirable male bodies are from those kinds of guys. and also complaints about male bodies being culturally framed as undesirable. Neither of which is actually true, but what’s funny is that they’re almost edging towards noticing the cultural role of women as the sex class, but then deciding that being shoved into that role is a privilege, which is absurd. There does seem to be some weird and interesting interaction between not feeling physically desirable themselves and fetishization of the male bodies that they’ve noticed are sometimes desired in their culture (ie. the big muscly ones), and I have sometimes wondered if there’s some sort of repressed homoerotic element going on there that they’d be a lot happier if they came to terms with.
I’m cheered by the above dude’s recognition that dudely good looks, like feeeeeemale good looks, tend to fade with age, especially for people who don’t have a ton of money or energy to spend fighting balding, slowing metabolisms, wrinkles, greys, outdated wardrobes, etc. It gets on my nerves how many of these guys will condescendingly warn young women of “the wall” while blithely assuming they themselves will be objectively hotter at 50 than at 25. Because: George Clooney! Do they ever look around at the Sunday buffet line? lol
BTW random but Kittehs, I just had a bottled iced coffee that I think may be similar to what you’re used to (ie. not the kind that you got in LA before and didn’t like). Let me know if you want brand, variety, etc.
Cassandra – that does make sense. It reminds me of a song from the musical “No Strings”, in which a man sings about ‘what does a woman see in a man’, since women are loveliness, beauty and grace made flesh, whereas men are ugly, predatory brutes. It’s remarkably effed up. If you really believe, deep down, that your body is unattractive due to your natural gender attributes, it probably makes it hard to perceive yourself as desirable to the people to whom you’re attracted. And when that’s the case, you probably won’t be.
“Pretty women out walkin’ with gorillas down my street. . .”
Guess I don’t exist then. Never had sexual contact with anyone. BOOM.
These guys, I swear…
So, I volunteer at a high school as an assistant coach and rereading that ‘by 15 or so’ is really starting to squick me out.
I’m not very maternal/paternal/parental/whatervertal, at all. I’m only in my 20’s.
Still, this guy needs to stay the hell away from my kids. 15 is the sophomores, and a couple freshman, and juniors. The boys and girls are mostly goofy, awkward, and still trying to sort out life.
They’re great kids.
Hilarious, clever, occasionally young fools, but amazing kids.
The idea that these slimeballs think that’s when the girls start being optimally sexy to adult men is hella disturbing.
Yeah, I know high-school kiddos aren’t perfect little angels. Yeah, they experiment with adult things, some to a way greater extent than others. But, they should NOT be forced into a any of those more adult roles by these jerks!
It’s okay to think kids your own age are hot, when you’re a kid. Never growing out of it, though, is so damned creepy that I lack further words.
But wait, I’m a virgin, I’ve never had sexual contact with anyone, and I’m a trans girl i.e. a “guy”. What does that make me? A being from another dimension?
@ Robert
It takes some serious narcissism not to notice that not everyone likes/dislikes the things that you like/dislike on a sexual level, but hey, nobody ever claimed that angry misogynists were reasonable people.
These MRAs seem to think that every single woman on earth looks like a Victoria’s Secret model, and can get whatever she wants from a man with the snap of her fingers. Just forget that only .05% or less of the women of the world fit this description. So MRAs must only “see” .05% of the women on the planet. Who is the invisible gender now?