In case anyone was wondering, the Men Going Their Own Way movement has managed to survive the implosion of MGTOWforums.com that I wrote about a little while ago. Yep, the regulars from there have moved on to several new forums where they continue to celebrate their independence from the women of the world by happily discussing such manly hobbies as video games, model trains, taxidermy and knitting.
Oh, who am I kidding? They don’t talk about any of that stuff. Basically they continue to nurse their grudges against the women who wouldn’t date them in high school, somehow convincing themselves that the best way to be “free” of women is to obsess about them every minute of every day.
Take the charming fella who calls himself ManWithAPlan, who has managed to win himself nearly 1900 “likes” from his comrades on the MGTOW HQ message boards with comments like the following:
I hate [women] because most of them acted like stuck up cunts when they were young and hot. Then they hit 30+ and decide to settle down, and when there are no men to settle down, they start shaming men. This is where most of my hate/negativity comes from, the fact that these women feel entitled to “good” men after having spent the last 15-20 years telling guys “just because you bought me a drink/dinner doesn’t mean I owe you sex”.
And every woman acts this way. Oh you want to slut it up? Sure go ahead and be a cum rag, but I would never date a cum rag. And how would they react to that? “Oh well that’s your preference and you’re entitled to it”. Yeah right, they’d flip their shit and go into shaming language ahoy.
The reason I derive so much pleasure from this is because for the first time in their lives women are being held accountable for their actions. And they don’t fucking like it. Remember when some girl/woman got you in trouble for just crying while you weren’t in the wrong? This is fucking payback.
(Emphasis mine.)
This may sound a little harsh, but you need to remember that for most young women, life is just an endless VIP party:
Women are born with their so called value. By 15 or whatever they have the looks and power to attract most men. By 18, depending on how attractive they are, they’re either dating 30 year old millionaires or (if less attractive) fucking the football team. And they retain this value until at some point into their 30’s, sometimes 40’s. Men get nothing. We are born invisible. We have to claw, work and suffer for 2-3 decades before we get any recognition. And by that point, we no longer have the energy or fast metabolism we had in our youth. So that means double time for us.
Women are handed the world on a silver platter, men have to fight for it.
Is the MGTOW movement the least successful “independence” movement ever? They’re like someone who breaks up with you, angrily marches out the front door, slams it behind them — and then spends the next five years on your front porch peering in the window.
Off topic: Could anyone here who works in a mental health field (in whatever capacity, including adademics) who has the time to answer a quick question or to email me? It’s not a personal question, but I’d rather not ask it publicly.
They think movies and TV are real.
Lady Mondegreen
This!
This applies to so much MRA/manosphere nonsense; “Traditional masculine gender roles are oppressive!” one moment, “They’re trying to take away our manliness!” the next.
They really want women to adore them for their manly manliness, to treat them as if they’re all the Great Dudes of History combined, without actually having to do anything to prove themselves.
Do these guys even remember what they write from one sentence to the next? Let’s see:
I’m sure they’re delighted to be called a “slut” and a “cum rag” and not at all insulted …
These horrible women, being angry at someone using shaming language against them!
I’m so angry at these horrible women, using shaming language at me!
/facepalm
And what’s with this “ahoy”? Is this charming scene happening on a boat?
::waves back at cloudiah::
I’m such a drive by commenter, I’m working almost full time and am just worn out by the time I get a chance (kids in bed etc).
I spent my 20s fucking my then boyfriend and now husband. He has never been a millionaire although he did play rugby.
I’m so sick of the hypocrisy coming from misogynists. We’re wrong for not sleeping with them if they buy us dinner, but we’re wrong for sleeping around. It’s not just MRAs that are like that either – if it was, we could just point and laugh. I found out yesterday that a friend who I’ve hooked up with thinks it’s fine for him to sleep around but “women have a precious gift they shouldn’t give away.”
So basically, it was fine for him to make the move and sleep with me, but I’ve done something wrong. I really don’t trust men at this point. 🙁
Yup, the SS Minnow. 🙂
I am 18 and have never dated or slept with any millionaire or football player (for whatever definition of ‘football’ you want). I’ve also never gotten anything by virtue of being female. Someone help!! Clearly I am womaning wrong. Also, how do I apply for this “everything on a silver platter”? Can I do it through Centrelink?
Yes, back when I was 18 I was totally shagging 30-year old millionaires. Every night. Just like all my friends did. Of course, the minute they turned 31 we’d drop them: they’d hit “the wall” y’know.
Didn’t everyone?
*sigh*
This guy just has no concept how hard it is to find a 30 year old millionaire.
@ Lady Mondegreen
“Historically men had to “prove” themselves, and women didn’t necessarily have to “do” anything in order to be successful at their gender role (for the sake of argument I’m going to ignore the fact that that isn’t actually all that easy for a lot of people.)”
Um… except retain (or indeed, gain) the affection/interest/forbearance/permission of their husband and/or and their male relatives. Very far from nothing, as anyone who has lived in a society where women remain the legal wards of males can tell you. (I vividly remember the 13 year-old boy who told me he could not allow his 24 year-old MSc-qualified sister to go on a college trip…).
And bear male children: the ultimate ‘proof’ of success in that gender role.
Katherine of Aragorn/Anne Boleyn? A million million other women in the past and today?
I think it’s down to elision. To the MRA, women are only good for what they can get out of them. The only worthwhile thing they can get out of them is sex. The only significant factor in who they want sex with is whether they find them attractive. So, any ‘unattractive’ woman (by their messed up metric) is about as relevant as a piece of furniture. MRAs tend to be rather unimaginative and herd-following when it comes to what they consider attractive, and the conventionally pretty girls at school probably did gravitate to the conventionally handsome (or otherwise conventionally desirable) lads. Hence this whole ridiculous alpha cock carousel business, because they were simply too self-absorbed to notice anyone else and lack the self-awareness to revise their opinions now they’re older and should be wiser.
(Incidentally, if there’s a welcome basket in-bound, I go more for guinea pigs than nasty cats)
slut = every woman who won’t have sex with me
evil = every woman who is the owner of her own body
oppressed = a man who can’t have sex every time he demands it
violation of basic human rights = raping is illegal
etc.
Ha! Haven’t you been listening? Tony and Joe have told us the age of entitlement* is over!
But I must have been womaning wrong too. I’m fifty and never slept with footballers or millionaires. For which I’m grateful … the local selection of footballers and millionaires is pretty gross.
*If your name isn’t Gina or Clive
Except for all the music, movies, TV shows, advertisements, magazines, comics, and video games that target the 18-34 male demographic…
@Lady Mondegreen Oh boo hoo, Sparky. Unattractive women are invisible too. But they don’t matter to these self-pitying jerks because, hey, just women. If their dicks aren’t interested, the person is invisible.
Sex only matters if it’s between hot people. Since it’s a transaction, unattractive people are having bargain-bin penny sex, while 18 year olds and millionaires are having luxury designer sex.
It’s the same reason the knuckleheads in the previous thread were complaining about vapid women. In MRALand, you only score points for banging “high value” women. If you’re able to trick and manipulate a smart woman into bed, then clearly you have Game. Plus there’s the extra satisfaction of getting the upper hand on someone who should have known better, thus there’s higher potential for damaged self-esteem and damage. It’s like getting more jollies out of smashing a Ming vase versus a dollar-store vase.
The same reasoning applies to attractive vs. unattractive women.
…oops, meant to say “damaged self-esteem and humiliation”, not “damaged self-esteem and damage”. Sorry for the redundant redundancy.
On top of the hilariously obvious contradictions pointed out by everyone, I’m amused by the obsession MGTOW have with Appearing Good. They need to just admit they’re resentful bastards because no one wanted to have sex with them personally, even after they took those 4 different dates out and bought them a McFlurry. Stop trying to make it into a whole social and cultural thing. They might feel a lot better if they just stuck with “I’m hurt because my interest wasn’t reciprocated.” Most humans with some sexual interest have that happen at some point or other, only a few make it out to be a big conspiracy and demand the opposite sex distribute sex according to some shifting invisible guidelines while existing as a paradox of virginity and promiscuity.
@kittehserf
ugh fuck our government really. I mean labor wasn’t great but at least they pretended to give a damn about human rights. Also, who the hell voted for Clive? I mean who really went “yes the billionaire feeding his own ego with clearly irrational views would make a great representative.” I just get so mad, to the point I don’t want to live here. Which is a shame as I love Australia.
And the population of footballers/millionaires is zero here (by here I mean ‘in my life’). Unless, of course, they’re invisible instead of the non-millionaire non-football types.
I’ve dated a couple millionaires, but I was in my 30s, so there goes the MGTOW bullshit. Never dated any football players.
However, I do love me some football, and there’s a few players I really admire like Richard Sherman and Chris Kluwe who are really subverting the dumb jock stereotype. Sherman’s got a brain and a mouth and isn’t afraid to use either. Then there’s players like Jonathan Martin and Michael Sam who are challenging the uber-macho heteronormative locker-room culture. Change is happening at a glacial pace (NFL teams might just be the most change and risk averse orgs on Earth), but it’s happening.
“Women are born with their so called value. By 15 or whatever they have the looks and power to attract most men. By 18, depending on how attractive they are, they’re either dating 30 year old millionaires or (if less attractive) fucking the football team.”
By “15 or whatever”, I was a shy, awkward, painfully insecure person. I was covered in acne. I had just transitioned from being an active, skinny kid to an active, but now mysteriously chunky teenager. It would take me a long time to figure out how to love my body and believe I could be attractive to someone. I did not have a single date through my high school years.
Hi. I’m a woman. I exist. So do lots of other people who are also women and have stories sort of like mine, or maybe not, but either way, definitely not consisting of millionaires and the football team.
Perhaps this dude would have a slightly improved view of women if he actually acknowledged the existence of most of them.
Yes, they’re all mysteriously invisible in my neck of the woods, too.
Urgh yes, however bad Labor got, they’re nowhere near as disgusting as this lot. Did you read about the refugees being taken to bloody Curtin prison camp up in WA? No internet, no mobile, one landline – handy way of keeping people in a court case from speaking to their lawyers.
Abbott & co send me into even more of a rage than Howard did. I SO hope they’re a one-term government, but Labor’s missing in action and doing SFA by way of opposition.
And, in the days before college and white-collar jobs became normal, most good-paying jobs involved a lot of upper body strength unless you were the business owner or the foreman. And, housework was far more physical than it is nowadays. The blue collar world kept the old ways the longest. I recall being warned by my husband that when his mother (daughter of a welder) came to visit it was very important for me to have all the faucet chrome shining and keep a damp rag handy to wash the kids hands and faces so they would always look clean. Bathtub ring, ring around the collar, and dishes you could see yourself in used to actually be very important to many people.
In Philly in the 80s, my mother moved to a blue collar row home neighborhood and there was a middle aged lesbian couple, and one of the women used to brag that she got a man’s pay because she did a man’s job: it involved lifting big sacks of stuff at a plant. Nowadays we used pallets and forklifts.
I remember a feminist demonstration of some sort, and a man coming forward to yell at the women, “I’m a man, I’m more important.” Considering how the blue collar wage system was structured, back then he had a point. Except that women (like my college educated mother) were starting to go downtown and get white collar office jobs (like computer programmer, which my mother became). The rest is history.
Fairly certain I never dated any millionaires….30 years old or otherwise.
And while I did date a former football player I never had sex with him. And I never met the rest of his team……
I guess I’ve failed as a woman.
There is so much misogyny to wade through here that we haven’t even touched on how a wealthy 30 year old man dating an 18 year old young woman has much more power in that relationship than she does.
And while any woman is welcome to fuck the football team, separately or all together, if she chooses and they consent, how often is “fucking the football team” actually code for “sexually exploited by the everyone associated with the football team”?