I thought this little exchange was so special it deserved to be shared.
![ILoveHate 18 points 21 hours ago (25|7) Why is it that I always see the hambeasts worried about rape and not the cute girls on the volleyball team? permalink save source report give gold save reply hide child comments [–]Bartab 21 points 17 hours ago (27|9) Because the cute ones turn guys down all the time and nothing happens. Fatties never turn them down, so they have this huge fantasy that if they did it would end in violence.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2guys2.png?ssl=1)
Thanks to AMRThrowaway for highlighting it in the first place.
EDIT: I updated the image. Now with more upvotes!
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We Hunted The MammothBucking the Backlash
Ah, I was ninjaed by Octo going above and beyond the call of duty and actually explaining rape culture.
But Alex, the reason people were short with you here is that you showed up announcing your opinon about something you didn’t know anything about to a bunch of people who do know a lot about the subject. That’s actually rather presumptuous, and a bit rude, and some would say entitled.
When you do that, you’ll tend to run into two types of people: 1) people who are willing to overlook your entitlement and to actually explain things to you because they actually want people to understand feminism and 2) people who don’t have the patience for that. Many in group 2 have spent much previous time being people in group 1.
Alex, ninjaed means that someone else’s response has slipped in ahead of yours while you were writing a response that says what you said, or that makes what you said seem a bit odd, or whatever.
So weirdwood and I were acknowledging that a very patient commenter had in fact posted a response explaining rape culture which we didn’t see before suggesting you google it.
Well I am receptive to people in group one. I have mental issues including depression and problems with focus and my understanding of certain issues is hindered, so it helps me to have examples and concise sentences. It really hurt my feelings to be accused of being ableist too, because my brother is autistic and I have nothing against people with intellectual disabilities.
Alex, bear in mind that you’re on a feminist site, made up largely of women, and when a man comes in pronouncing the exact same bullshit we hear all the time from MRAs (“Rape culture is an offensive term, it says all men are rapists!”) then you’re going to get short shrift – not least since there are plenty of regulars here (of whatever sex or orientation) who have been raped and know first hand what rape culture does.
Sorry, David, I was silly and popped that comment into moderation by accident.
Alex, “retards” is an ablelist slur. There are plenty of ways to express contempt for dirtbags without using words that imply disability, mental illness and so on have anything to do with being an arsehole-by-choice. Be inventive! 🙂
Heh, katz, I just got myself into moderation doing the same thing, I think! 😛
I’m sorry.
We all stumble and get called out, Alex. You’ll get there. Saying sorry’s a good start! 🙂
I support feminism, but it’s not really something I do a lot of reading or talking about. This is the only feminist place that has ever been interesting to me because I like seeing really irrational people like MRAs’ stupidity get pointed out. I don’t think I’m actually going to get anywhere though. People here don’t seem to like me much.
Alex, I started much the same way – this is the only feminist site I read a lot, and the only one I really like. It took me a while to get into it because I felt rather intimidated by how smart everyone is.
I don’t know if you participate in many blogs, so ignore me if you knot this already, but it can take a while to be accepted as a commentariat gets to know you – same as being new to any group. Plus, this site has been troll-heavy for years (less so now than at the start) and there is a higher level of wariness because of that. It’s not because you’re a guy; we’ve had women feminists get called out for saying shitty things, and some of ’em flounced, never to be seen again.
Lurk and hang in there, that’s my advice.
It is my opinion, and I stress that, that “rape culture” refers to far more then the culture of raping people. We live in one of many societies around the world that views not only women and children as *things* to be used, abused and thrown away, but the very planet itself.
How else to explain and define the hideous use of extractive methods – oil, gas and coal – and horribly poisonous methods – the same oil, gas and coal, with nuclear added – to drive cars, heat homes and other buildings? Especially when there are alternatives. How else to explain addiction to war and the use of spent uranium in the shell casings used in Southern Iraq, which are leading to millenia of birth defects, stillbirths and cancers? This, by the way, is already happening.
How else to explain the trafficking of primarily women and children for the sexual/emotional satisfaction of the few, the powerful, the rich?
The list is, potentially, too long to write, but I do believe that “rape culture” is the correct term to describe and explain so much pain, so much death and so much misery. Someone forcibly takes from someone(s) who have no wish to give and/or are in little position to fight back. And when they DO fight back, we send in the Marines, literally and metaphorically, to punish and take anyway. Alex, if you have a better and more appropriate term, I would love to hear it. I really would.
Yes, Octo. And we can see the same psychology spread out into the wider world, with war, environmental devastation and more. There does not seem to be any aspect of society, that I can presently see, that is not tainted by rape culture thinking. The weapons are different – penis on an intimate level, bombs on a MUCH larger level – but I see many similarities. Perhaps it boils down to what we do on a personal level we tend to do on a social or planetary level.
I just realized how very tired and sad I am right now.
Thank you, Alex. For my part, apology accepted. If you do not understand, or think you might not understand, a term or concept here, just ask. For the most part I have found the folk on this blog to be very open when we feel that someone respects us and cares enough to make certain that we all are speaking the same language. Well, as much as that is possible, anyway. 🙂
Alex, we do not know each other and, sadly, there were some stumbles. Have patience, ask questions, let us all get to know each other a bit. Just remember – many folk here – and possibly you -, myself included, come from painful backgrounds. A little patience, a little forethought and a tad of understanding can go a long way.
And stop using ableist slurs on here, Alex. Don’t use “retard” when what you mean is “wilfully stupid”. The MRAs choose to do and say horrible things. They choose be hateful bigots. They are not mentally ill, they are nasty and it is an insult to anyone with a mental illness to be associated with MRAs.
Pro-tip: using gendered slurs (or homophobic, transphobic, or racist) slurs will also get you called out. Means we have to think about our insults a little more carefully but that’s hardly a bad thing.
Edited to avoid moderation:
And stop using ableist slurs on here, Alex. Don’t use “r3t4rd” when what you mean is “wilfully stupid”. The MRAs choose to do and say horrible things. They choose be hateful bigots. They are not mentally ill, they are nasty and it is an insult to anyone with a mental illness to be associated with MRAs.
Pro-tip: using gendered slurs (or homophobic, transphobic, or racist) slurs will also get you called out. Means we have to think about our insults a little more carefully but that’s hardly a bad thing.
Have you read a lot of 9gag recently, by any chance? It seems to crop up there a lot.
That’s incorrect. People don’t like your opinions very much, when your opinons seem to be either purposefully inflammatory (“Portrays all males as rapists because of some retards”) or accidentally ignorant (“Well I was already aware of all of that. I didn’t know that was what was called rape culture”)
However, you apologized, got the correction and there we go, it’s all good, let’s move on now to cats and cookies and other joyful things.
Truthfully, no one here knows who you are, understand who you are, knows you on a personal level or are qualified to pass judgement over who you are either. Please, if I may make a simple requests, do not confuse words about your opinions as words about your personality, because the two are different.
so stick around! Read more. Use google next time you don’t know what something is, and pre-face your statements with “It is my understanding that XXX is YY because ZZZ”
c’est la vie, sometimes you stumble a tad.
That’s not what rape culture means. The point is that the majority of men are NOT rapists, but the attitudes of the general public give cover to the predators.
Rape culture:
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/
This is why this is so frustrating. There’s a Wikipedia page about it:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/
Alex, I also think you might be confusing “rape culture” with the concept of Schrodinger’s Rapist* – which also doesn’t say that all men are rapists, but is slightly easier to misconstrue in that way.
*Google is your friend here, but in short: you can’t know whether a given man is a rapist or not until he’s trying to rape you. Thus, when women are wary around men, it’s not because “all men are rapists,” it’s because we don’t know which men are rapists and would rather be safe than sorry.
The problem with “all men are potential rapists” is that it can be interpreted a couple of different ways. When feminists say it, we mean it in the Schrodinger’s Rapist way, that any given man might be a rapist. When MRAs and other anti-feminists see the phrase, what they hear is “every man has the potential to become a rapist”, which I don’t think is what feminists are trying to get across. I mean, yeah, pretty much every man could become a rapist, because every person could become a rapist or a thief or a murderer, but despite what MRAs like to claim, most feminists aren’t suggesting that we treat all men as monsters-in-waiting (although if some women choose to do so, I think it’s a perfectly valid safety measure given the world we live in).
One metaphor I’ve read for this sort of thing is ‘bear country’. Hikers in bear country carry cowbells or sing loudly when bears are around, so the bears hear them coming. An alerted bear will typically move away; a surprised bear may perceive a threat and attack. Being a black man in the USA means that almost everywhere you go is bear country. Most black men learn to signal to white people ‘not a threat’, because the alternative can be deadly.
As a man, I am aware that to most women I am a potential threat. I KNOW that I’m harmless, but it is generally helpful for me to signal that. Most women are unlikely to pose a threat to me, so in theory I could go through life disregarding this. But I choose not to, out of basic empathy. On a daily basis, I find that it makes getting through life more pleasant and comfortable. And good gracious, but life could do with more of both.
There are plenty of folks who are liked here yet occasionally called out. It’s nothing unusual or unfair.
White people in POC spaces need to actively demonstrate the fact that they’re not going to be assholes too. It’s just one of those things – if you’re part of a group that often is oppressive to others you can’t expect people in the groups that are targeted for oppression by people in your group to automatically trust you and assume goodwill on your part.
Gotta say though, if I went into a POC space, encountered a bit of initial side-eye after saying something offensive, and responded with “why are you being so mean to me?”, I’d have only myself to blame if everyone told me to get lost.