Just two dudes, talkin’ ’bout rape on the Men’s Rights subreddit

@Samantha, I’ve never heard of that guy, but I’m not surprised. The connections between the Pagan old guard and the sexual revolutionaries seem to have created a perfect storm of prude-shaming and “but we’re a fertility religion!” that makes a good cover for abusers. And of course Pagans, like kinksters and poly folks, have enough legit reasons to fear outsiders that they can justify inaction or rallying around the accused as a form of community solidarity.

Nor am I surprised to see discussions of the issue turn into petty bickering among the Big Name Pagans. Christian Day and Peg Aloi are going at it in the comments on the Wild Hunt, helpfully reminding me why I don’t like to be associated with the broader Pagan “community”.

Fair warning to everyone: Predators exist everywhere, even in the spiritual communities.

Possibly “especially in spiritual communities”, because their status in the community can be used to shield them. My SIL had a guy occasionally peep in her window while she was a teen, and when her mom finally caught him and got him arrested, his lawyer tried to argue that he shouldn’t be punished because he was a minister (!) and had no prior record. My MIL was like “lol no”.

Oh and there was a few months back a really great set of photos of male victims holding signs of the disgusting things they were told by their rapists. Great photos in that it brought awareness. They were all very brave men.

Was it from Project Unbreakable? That’s a really cool project.

Poor, poor, tortured, misunderstood victim of his own weaknesses. How can we be so cruel to him by pointing out that his VICTIMS are the ones who need our help and compassion?

One of the worst things about Alcoholics Anonymous (at least where I got sober, but I’ve heard this from others as well) was the tendency to go on about how the sexual predators in our midst were “sick, suffering alcoholics” like the rest of us. Yeah, so were the newcomers they groomed and took advantage of, who are now back out there, without the support of AA and with one more pain to try to drink away – but hey, can’t save ’em all.

I often say that sexual assault isn’t sex, it is ASSAULT. An assault in which the genitalia are the weapons, and/or the target. (Mouth, anus, and in some cases, breasts, are also targets.) Rape may look like sex, it may employ all the same basic mechanics as sex, but it isn’t sex. I really must remember this shit-cake metaphor, because it says it perfectly.

Treating rape as a sexual act is a way to back off from that profound violence of the assault. It amazes me how readily people try to make one act look like sometyhing else, especially when the act is ACTUALLY a violent and repellent one.

Kind of like Orwellian double-speak. When the perpetrators and their supporters control the definitions in the dialogue, they can make people believe what they are told, not what they experience or know to be true. Case in point, when I was 17 I was involved in a psychological experiment. I was shown, along with a few other folk, a picture of two lines. One was obviously shorter then the other. We were told to choose which one was the shorter line. The people on either side of me insisted that the longer was actually the shorter. They put a LOT of pressure on me to agree with them. After all, we are all conditioned to go along with the majority. I chose the true shorter line, but I was in an intense sweat over that. What I did not know was that the other folk were confederates of the experimenters, deliberately putting pressure on me to agree. I later found out that something like 90+% of people will go along with what they are told. I had nightmares about it for days afterward.

It is really hard to hang onto your own sense of reality when so many others pressure you to go along. That is how despots and rape apologists and other nasty sorts get away with it

@Samantha, I’ve never heard of that guy, but I’m not surprised.

The story was in the following edition of The Wild Hunt:
Allegations Emerge After Pagan Author Charged With Possessing Child Pornography in The Wild Hunt 3/28/2014

And of course Pagans, like kinksters and poly folks, have enough legit reasons to fear outsiders that they can justify inaction or rallying around the accused as a form of community solidarity.

Yes, I can understand that part, although I do not agree with it. What really bothered me about the article were the stories of now-grown kids whose PARENTS would not credit them. And that seems to be the case in so many areas – parents do not want to know, when the abuser is someone they respect or like or just seems like a nice guy. My favorite uncle started to touch me when I was 14 and my family just told me that it was harmless, he was an old man, I should make nice. Bleah! No wonder those kids are angry! And some of them even doubt themselves.

Christian Day and Peg Aloi are going at it in the comments on the Wild Hunt, helpfully reminding me why I don’t like to be associated with the broader Pagan “community”.

I have not been keeping up with the comments, but I am not surprised. And I hear you about not being associated with the broader community. I am a happy solitary. 🙂

Possibly “especially in spiritual communities”, because their status in the community can be used to shield them.

I am reminded of the ongoing problems with priests. And the pictures on the url you sent tell the whole story. Makes me so sad.

Reblogged this on Discombobulate.

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is one concept whose spread I strongly disagree with.

And yet you use an ableist slur. Hypocrite much?

Also, no one here cares about your opinion on rape culture because you have already demonstrated that you have no idea what it is.

That’s rather rude. If you think I’m wrong, explain it to me.

Why are you being so mean? I’ve posted here before and people were nice.

The concept of “rape culture” is not about male behaviour. Not at all! It’s about how society (*both* men and women) *treat* rape. In short, society has a very narrow definition of rape cases which are actually condemnable. I mean, the archetypical case of a rape, what people have in their heads when they hear the term, is a stranger randomly attacking and raping a woman. This of course neglects the fact that most rape cases are actually committed by people the victim knew. What’s more, even if a case fits the stereotypical image, society will only condemn it if the woman has no prior record of above average sexual activity, partying, etc. For anything else, society (which, again, includes both men and women) has a tendency to make up excuses for the perpetrators, or to outright blame the victim.

For example, that one incident, where a CNN reporter during the Steubenville rape case showed more empathy towards the rapists than the victims – that’s an example of internalized rape culture. And that reporter was female. Or when all the allegations against Strauss-Kahn in France came up… and how one of his victims reported how her mother had told her not to report the rape, because that would hurt the Socialist Party… again, that would be another example, again done by a woman.

Rape culture, is not “all men are potential rapists”. Rape culture is blaming the victim, making up excuses for the perpetrators, emphasizing more with them than the victims, downplaying the severity of rape, denying non-violent forms of rape are rape, and son. Rape culture is about how rape victims are left alone and failing to provide any deterrence for rape, leading to, essentially, the promotion of it.

Well, you don’t know what rape culture is, and you sounded awfully proud of your opinion.

If you want to be educated on a topic, don’t come in loudly announcing your already-decided opinion about it.

Ah. Well I was already aware of all of that. I didn’t know that was what was called rape culture, I just thought that was willful ignorance of what rape actually is. Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings. Thank you for explaining. As a gay man I have to deal with ignorance everywhere, and I don’t really appreciate just being told I am not worth explaining something to. It’s depressing to be told things like that.

For one thing you could have easily educated yourself about the concept of rape culture by simply googling it. You didn’t need to prance in here and make pronouncements. You also didn’t need to use a word that is extremely offensive to people with disabilities. You didn’t seriously expect that comment would be well received did you?

What does that mean? Are you rubbing in the fact that I was wrong after I have apologized?