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are these guys 12 years old? evil fat fatties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA rape culture reddit that's completely wrong

Just two dudes, talkin’ ’bout rape on the Men’s Rights subreddit

I thought this little exchange was so special it deserved to be shared.

ILoveHate 18 points 21 hours ago (25|7)  Why is it that I always see the hambeasts worried about rape and not the cute girls on the volleyball team?      permalink     save     source     report     give gold     save     reply     hide child comments  [–]Bartab 21 points 17 hours ago (27|9)  Because the cute ones turn guys down all the time and nothing happens.  Fatties never turn them down, so they have this huge fantasy that if they did it would end in violence.

Thanks to AMRThrowaway for highlighting it in the first place.

EDIT: I updated the image. Now with more upvotes!

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Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Well I am receptive to people in group one. I have mental issues including depression and problems with focus and my understanding of certain issues is hindered, so it helps me to have examples and concise sentences. It really hurt my feelings to be accused of being ableist too, because my brother is autistic and I have nothing against people with intellectual disabilities.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Alex, bear in mind that you’re on a feminist site, made up largely of women, and when a man comes in pronouncing the exact same bullshit we hear all the time from MRAs (“Rape culture is an offensive term, it says all men are rapists!”) then you’re going to get short shrift – not least since there are plenty of regulars here (of whatever sex or orientation) who have been raped and know first hand what rape culture does.

katz
7 years ago

Sorry, David, I was silly and popped that comment into moderation by accident.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Alex, “retards” is an ablelist slur. There are plenty of ways to express contempt for dirtbags without using words that imply disability, mental illness and so on have anything to do with being an arsehole-by-choice. Be inventive! 🙂

kittehserf
7 years ago

Heh, katz, I just got myself into moderation doing the same thing, I think! 😛

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

I’m sorry.

kittehserf
7 years ago

We all stumble and get called out, Alex. You’ll get there. Saying sorry’s a good start! 🙂

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

I support feminism, but it’s not really something I do a lot of reading or talking about. This is the only feminist place that has ever been interesting to me because I like seeing really irrational people like MRAs’ stupidity get pointed out. I don’t think I’m actually going to get anywhere though. People here don’t seem to like me much.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Alex, I started much the same way – this is the only feminist site I read a lot, and the only one I really like. It took me a while to get into it because I felt rather intimidated by how smart everyone is.

I don’t know if you participate in many blogs, so ignore me if you knot this already, but it can take a while to be accepted as a commentariat gets to know you – same as being new to any group. Plus, this site has been troll-heavy for years (less so now than at the start) and there is a higher level of wariness because of that. It’s not because you’re a guy; we’ve had women feminists get called out for saying shitty things, and some of ’em flounced, never to be seen again.

Lurk and hang in there, that’s my advice.

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Alex

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is one concept whose spread I strongly disagree with.

It is my opinion, and I stress that, that “rape culture” refers to far more then the culture of raping people. We live in one of many societies around the world that views not only women and children as *things* to be used, abused and thrown away, but the very planet itself.
How else to explain and define the hideous use of extractive methods – oil, gas and coal – and horribly poisonous methods – the same oil, gas and coal, with nuclear added – to drive cars, heat homes and other buildings? Especially when there are alternatives. How else to explain addiction to war and the use of spent uranium in the shell casings used in Southern Iraq, which are leading to millenia of birth defects, stillbirths and cancers? This, by the way, is already happening.
How else to explain the trafficking of primarily women and children for the sexual/emotional satisfaction of the few, the powerful, the rich?
The list is, potentially, too long to write, but I do believe that “rape culture” is the correct term to describe and explain so much pain, so much death and so much misery. Someone forcibly takes from someone(s) who have no wish to give and/or are in little position to fight back. And when they DO fight back, we send in the Marines, literally and metaphorically, to punish and take anyway. Alex, if you have a better and more appropriate term, I would love to hear it. I really would.

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Octo

Rape culture, is not “all men are potential rapists”. Rape culture is blaming the victim, making up excuses for the perpetrators, emphasizing more with them than the victims, downplaying the severity of rape, denying non-violent forms of rape are rape, and son. Rape culture is about how rape victims are left alone and failing to provide any deterrence for rape, leading to, essentially, the promotion of it.

Yes, Octo. And we can see the same psychology spread out into the wider world, with war, environmental devastation and more. There does not seem to be any aspect of society, that I can presently see, that is not tainted by rape culture thinking. The weapons are different – penis on an intimate level, bombs on a MUCH larger level – but I see many similarities. Perhaps it boils down to what we do on a personal level we tend to do on a social or planetary level.
I just realized how very tired and sad I am right now.

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Alex

I’m sorry.

Thank you, Alex. For my part, apology accepted. If you do not understand, or think you might not understand, a term or concept here, just ask. For the most part I have found the folk on this blog to be very open when we feel that someone respects us and cares enough to make certain that we all are speaking the same language. Well, as much as that is possible, anyway. 🙂

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Alex

I don’t think I’m actually going to get anywhere though. People here don’t seem to like me much.

Alex, we do not know each other and, sadly, there were some stumbles. Have patience, ask questions, let us all get to know each other a bit. Just remember – many folk here – and possibly you -, myself included, come from painful backgrounds. A little patience, a little forethought and a tad of understanding can go a long way.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

And stop using ableist slurs on here, Alex. Don’t use “retard” when what you mean is “wilfully stupid”. The MRAs choose to do and say horrible things. They choose be hateful bigots. They are not mentally ill, they are nasty and it is an insult to anyone with a mental illness to be associated with MRAs.

Pro-tip: using gendered slurs (or homophobic, transphobic, or racist) slurs will also get you called out. Means we have to think about our insults a little more carefully but that’s hardly a bad thing.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Edited to avoid moderation:

And stop using ableist slurs on here, Alex. Don’t use “r3t4rd” when what you mean is “wilfully stupid”. The MRAs choose to do and say horrible things. They choose be hateful bigots. They are not mentally ill, they are nasty and it is an insult to anyone with a mental illness to be associated with MRAs.

Pro-tip: using gendered slurs (or homophobic, transphobic, or racist) slurs will also get you called out. Means we have to think about our insults a little more carefully but that’s hardly a bad thing.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is one concept whose spread I strongly disagree with.

Have you read a lot of 9gag recently, by any chance? It seems to crop up there a lot.

I support feminism, but it’s not really something I do a lot of reading or talking about. This is the only feminist place that has ever been interesting to me because I like seeing really irrational people like MRAs’ stupidity get pointed out. I don’t think I’m actually going to get anywhere though. People here don’t seem to like me much.

That’s incorrect. People don’t like your opinions very much, when your opinons seem to be either purposefully inflammatory (“Portrays all males as rapists because of some retards”) or accidentally ignorant (“Well I was already aware of all of that. I didn’t know that was what was called rape culture”)

However, you apologized, got the correction and there we go, it’s all good, let’s move on now to cats and cookies and other joyful things.

Truthfully, no one here knows who you are, understand who you are, knows you on a personal level or are qualified to pass judgement over who you are either. Please, if I may make a simple requests, do not confuse words about your opinions as words about your personality, because the two are different.

so stick around! Read more. Use google next time you don’t know what something is, and pre-face your statements with “It is my understanding that XXX is YY because ZZZ”

c’est la vie, sometimes you stumble a tad.

vaiyt
7 years ago

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet.

That’s not what rape culture means. The point is that the majority of men are NOT rapists, but the attitudes of the general public give cover to the predators.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Alex, I also think you might be confusing “rape culture” with the concept of Schrodinger’s Rapist* – which also doesn’t say that all men are rapists, but is slightly easier to misconstrue in that way.

*Google is your friend here, but in short: you can’t know whether a given man is a rapist or not until he’s trying to rape you. Thus, when women are wary around men, it’s not because “all men are rapists,” it’s because we don’t know which men are rapists and would rather be safe than sorry.

The problem with “all men are potential rapists” is that it can be interpreted a couple of different ways. When feminists say it, we mean it in the Schrodinger’s Rapist way, that any given man might be a rapist. When MRAs and other anti-feminists see the phrase, what they hear is “every man has the potential to become a rapist”, which I don’t think is what feminists are trying to get across. I mean, yeah, pretty much every man could become a rapist, because every person could become a rapist or a thief or a murderer, but despite what MRAs like to claim, most feminists aren’t suggesting that we treat all men as monsters-in-waiting (although if some women choose to do so, I think it’s a perfectly valid safety measure given the world we live in).

Robert
Robert
7 years ago

One metaphor I’ve read for this sort of thing is ‘bear country’. Hikers in bear country carry cowbells or sing loudly when bears are around, so the bears hear them coming. An alerted bear will typically move away; a surprised bear may perceive a threat and attack. Being a black man in the USA means that almost everywhere you go is bear country. Most black men learn to signal to white people ‘not a threat’, because the alternative can be deadly.

As a man, I am aware that to most women I am a potential threat. I KNOW that I’m harmless, but it is generally helpful for me to signal that. Most women are unlikely to pose a threat to me, so in theory I could go through life disregarding this. But I choose not to, out of basic empathy. On a daily basis, I find that it makes getting through life more pleasant and comfortable. And good gracious, but life could do with more of both.

trans_commie
7 years ago

Why are you being so mean? I’ve posted here before and people were nice.

There are plenty of folks who are liked here yet occasionally called out. It’s nothing unusual or unfair.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

White people in POC spaces need to actively demonstrate the fact that they’re not going to be assholes too. It’s just one of those things – if you’re part of a group that often is oppressive to others you can’t expect people in the groups that are targeted for oppression by people in your group to automatically trust you and assume goodwill on your part.

Gotta say though, if I went into a POC space, encountered a bit of initial side-eye after saying something offensive, and responded with “why are you being so mean to me?”, I’d have only myself to blame if everyone told me to get lost.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Why wouldn’t you assume good faith? Also I don’t know what P0C means.

leatapp
leatapp
7 years ago

poc – people of color.

Alex, it sounds like you need to do some 101 level reading on social justice issues.

FromAfar
7 years ago

@ Alex

Have you checked out some of the other blogs linked on the right side bar too? Some of them are great for learning about social justice issues in general. I especially like Feministing because they do a great job of being intersectional (they cover way more than JUST feminism). I also love Captain Awkward. She’s brilliant.

trans_commie
7 years ago

@Alex

A defining characteristic of privilege is that privileged people are less likely to be aware of how privileged they are. For instance, white privilege can manifest itself in the form of white people being unaware of the fact that they are treated as normal and fully human. Because of this tendency, many white people act in ways that are oppressive without even knowing it. And it can be difficult to tell whether a white person is making an honest mistake or just deliberately being oppressive, hence the lack of POC assuming good faith from white people. It’s not about demonizing all white people; it’s about being wary.

Also, POC stands for people of color, the term used for people who are oppressed by white supremacy.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Why wouldn’t you assume good faith?

Have you seen some of the horrible people who troll this place?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Why wouldn’t you assume good faith? Also I don’t know what P0C means.

1.) because we don’t know you, 2.) what you’ve said so far, and 3.) what grumpycatisagirl said.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Alex – I already told you above, this is a troll-heavy site, though less now than it used to be. We’ve had men – the same sorts who say rape culture doesn’t exist and is offensive to men because it says you’re all rapists – telling us we should be raped. We’ve had men saying women are nothing but fucktoys with a pulse, that women are inherently stupid, deceitful, barely human creatures who have no right to self-determination at all. The articles David quotes are full of this shit. Click on some of the categories in the sidebar like “violence” and “men who should not ever be with women” or “reactionary bullshit” and see what comes up.

If you come into a place and people are nice, then you say something and get called on it, doesn’t it occur to you to find out what you did to cause offence, rather than get all wounded?

If a hetero person, little known to the regular on an LGBT site, declared that it’s offensive to hetero people to say there’s a culture of prejudice against LGBT people, would you expect the regulars to be nice to them and take them on good faith?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Ok, I’m calling troll on @Alex. He comes in with an inflamatory comment about rape culture with a side order of slur, he gets all indignant when called on this, telling us all what meanie meanpants we are and now he’s claiming not to know what PoC stands for. Pull the other one, it hath bells on it.

It’s not still April Fools in his time zone, is it?

katz
7 years ago

Alex was also Mr. “What do you think about gay men?” IIRC.

Alex, it sounds like you need to do some catching up about social justice in general. Maybe if you lurked for a while and read the comment threads, you might get a better sense of how we roll around here.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Yes, he was, katz.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

I’ve not got the patience to spoon feed people who are too lazy to google, tonight.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Yup, that’s him.

I’m really not loving the whole “why are you being so mean?” after ripping off slurs and dismissing rape culture as some plot to make him feel bad. I don’t know, something just does not pass the smell test.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

At this point I’m going to say I don’t care if he’s trolling or just clueless, either way I’m not interested in further conversation.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Wow, get paranoid and hostile at people you don’t know much? You’re the ones saying I’m plotting to make you feel bad now after apologizing several times. I guess I’m probably lying about being gay too, because that’s clearly something people do all the time :I

trans_commie
7 years ago

Alex, no one here is accusing you of being gay. They are only suspicious of you because you are behaving like many past Man Boobz trolls. It’s been spelled out for you several times in this thread.

trans_commie
7 years ago

Fixing that first sentence:

“Alex, no one here is accusing you of lying about your orientation.”

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Nobody has to accuse me of being gay because I am gay. What I am not is a troll. I said things that hurt peoples’ feelings. I didn’t mean to say anything that would hurt anyone’s feelings. I am sorry.

kittehserf
7 years ago

You’re the ones saying I’m plotting to make you feel bad now after apologizing several times.

Now that’s just stupid. It’s been explained to you several times

1) What rape culture is

2) Why we’re reacting as we are to a stranger coming in and saying the same things MRAs do.

You’ve also missed that your apology was accepted by people in the original conversation.

Going on complaining and carrying on about how people are being mean to you isn’t really helping, you know.

This is actually a very welcoming place. Plenty of long-time members here have stumbled at first, or later for that matter, been called out, said “Sorry, won’t do it again!” and been fine.

I’m not sure why this seems to be hard for you to comprehend.

Nobody’s questioning your orientation. Ally made a typo and corrected herself. We don’t even do that to trolls, though we’ve had a good few dudes pretending to be women over the years.

katz
7 years ago

I guess I’m probably lying about being gay too, because that’s clearly something people do all the time :I

Huh?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Can we have a show of hands in favor of just ignoring mr. dramatic non-sequitur?

kittehserf
7 years ago

::flaps hand::

I think I’ve used up all my Patient Wall o’ Text™ on this one.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

I bow to your image finding skills.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Love the Hermione’s Cat one! 😀

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Alex

As a gay man I have to deal with ignorance everywhere, and I don’t really appreciate just being told I am not worth explaining something to. It’s depressing to be told things like that.

I am a gay man who was raped by a straight man. He got away with it because… you guessed it! Rape culture. Your ignorance hurts me too. Your gayness is not a get-out-of-jail free card. Your gayness is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

I have mental issues including depression and problems with focus and my understanding of certain issues is hindered, so it helps me to have examples and concise sentences.

Oh hey, I have mental issues too! You’re still acting like a jerk. If you were worried about misunderstanding, it would’ve been better for you to mention right away. Again, it feels like you’re hiding behind your label to avoid accepting you screwed up.

People here don’t seem to like me much.

I CAN’T IMAGINE WHY. You’re irritating me, and I’m supposed to be the same category as you!

Why wouldn’t you assume good faith?

Because this is a site that gets trolled regularly. Also, I really don’t care for how you duck behind your labels the moment someone calls you out, and calls us mean. You’re being a weasel, and I don’t care for it.

I guess I’m probably lying about being gay too, because that’s clearly something people do all the time :I

See? You’re doing it again. We call you out for doing shitty things, you get upset and say we’re being mean. Why should I engage with you in good faith when you’re busy clutching pearls?

I didn’t mean to say anything that would hurt anyone’s feelings. I am sorry.

Then STOP DOING IT. Stop clutching your pearls, sit down, shut up, and learn a bit.

I get the sense that you are very young, Alex. But you’re failing basic social interactions here. The requisite parts of an apology are: say you’re sorry, show an awareness of what you’ve done, and then change your behavior. You are failing the last two parts of that, and that’s why everyone’s getting pissy at you. Including me.