Just two dudes, talkin’ ’bout rape on the Men’s Rights subreddit

RE: “rape is not about sex,” I wind up saying that a lot as a Christian feminist because in more conservative Christian circles there’s still a strong belief that rape is [i]only[/i] about sex. And I don’t think rape is ever [i]only[/i] about sex, even though sex can definitely be part of the rapist’s motivations. And I also definitely draw a distinction between my own assault and sex.

But I can also see why it can be upsetting and feel like it erases some people’s experiences. So my question is, what is a better way to concisely make the point that rape isn’t just a guy feeling horny and not being able to control himself? Is just adding a small qualifier (“rape isn’t just about sex”) enough? I prefer it without the “just” because I think it has more impact, but I am not sure if other people read “just” as quite as waffling as I do, and I fear my audience (seriously, pretty much the only time I say it is when talking to MRA types or conservative Christians who have bought into purity culture and all the messed up ideas about sex that that entails) does as well. So what do you guys think?

I really don’t want to trigger or upset anyone and this is the first time I’ve considered that this sentence could be upsetting, so sorry for the rambling and for any awkwardness.

I’d say… well, does it matter? Even if it were “just” about sex, that would neither mean nor justify anything. If a need for dominance or a purely sexual need is satisifed, either way, somebody violates somebody else, violates their dignity at a most basic level, leading in most cases to great trauma… and all that just to satisfy an own need.

I’d say… well, does it matter? Even if it were “just” about sex, that would neither mean nor justify anything.

I think it mostly matters in discussions about how to deal with it. The assumption that it’s only about sex leads to a lot of “if men were always sexually satisfied, there would be no rape” (as well as to the whole “castrate the rapists” contingent).

And Katz beat me by two minutes. 😉

Won’t anyone think of the lemurs?!!!!!

This is sort of a tangent, but I found a depressing example of how society views rape as not a rape. I watched a horror movie called Contracted on Netflix. A woman is roofied and raped (she even says no more than once) while drinking at a party. The rapist gives her what she first thinks is an STD but turns out to be a supernatural The movie itself is pretty good as a metaphor for the trauma following rape. She literally starts falling apart and it eventually effects those around her too.

The depressing part is that the Netflix plot description called it a “one night stand” instead of a rape. Then I read a couple pages of viewer reviews and only two of the reviewers even got that it was rape. All the other ones called it a one night stand and many even referred to the main character as stupid!

It was like a microcosm of our fucked up rape culture! I wrote my own review and scolded both Netflix and other reviewers for not recognizing a clear rape as such.

Sorry, just felt like a vent.

@Katz and AK, since you basically made the same argument…

@Octo, I think it matters because it determines how we handle rape. Obviously it isn’t okay either way, but when you’re talking to someone who believes that rape will stop if women stop “tempting” men, you’ve got to talk about what motivates the assault, and that’s where the whole “it’s not about sex” thing comes in (at least for me).

I see, but to me that still doesn’t feel quite right. It kinda is in conflict with the notion that we *should* be able to expect men to control themselves enough not to go out and rape people. It circumvents victim blaming only by giving the perpetrator a different motive, and not by establishing that victims aren’t at fault.

But I suppose it’s you who has to put up with people arguing such BS, so it’s you who has to find the best arguments…

It kinda is in conflict with the notion that we *should* be able to expect men to control themselves enough not to go out and rape people.

We still expect that men don’t go about raping, no matter the motivations.

Doesn’t the notion of it being about self-control play into the idea that men’s sexual drives are SO POWERFUL and that it’s all a feller can do to control them? As I read it, that plays right into the idea of playing down rapists’ culpability. Rape is something rapists choose to do.

But that’s the point… kinda, sorta… No matter what BS claims people may make about “uncontrollable drives” or “women tempting them”, even if they were true (which of course they aren’t), we should under *all circumstances* be able to expect people not to rape other people. I suppose I just feel that is what should be stressed, rather than what may motivate the rapists.

PS – I really hope this isn’t triggering anyone, and if it is, tell me and I’ll STFU.

I just want to say that Dan Perrins of AVfM is a total chucklefuck, and this anonymous woman on the phone is incredibly kind and patient with him:

And Dan Perrins is a damned liar. His claim that almost half of all domestic violence victims are men is just plain wrong. Now, the stats below are for the US, but I cannot imagine that Canada is *worse* then us!

I got these stats here:
http://www.statisticbrain.com/domestic-violence-abuse-stats/

Domestic Violence Statistics
Percent of women who have experienced domestic violence 25%
Estimated number of domestic violence incidents per year 960,000

Victims of Domestic Violence
Women 85%
Men 15%
Women ages 20-24 are at the greatest risk
On average, 3 females and 1 male are murdered by their partner each day
The health costs of domestic violence yearly $5.8 Billion
Percent of female high school students who reported being physically or sexually abused by a dating partner 20%
Percent of teens who reported threats from their boyfriend or girlfriend to harm them or themselves to avoid a breakup. 14%
Number of children who witness domestic violence annually 6 Million +
Number of women who are stalked by an intimate partner annually 503,485
Percent of domestic crimes reported to police 25%
Women are 5 to 8 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner.
In 92% of all domestic violence incidents, crimes are committed by men against women.
Violence by an intimate partner accounts for about 2% of violent crime experienced by men.
Number of American women assaulted by men each year 2,100,000
Percent of the victims of domestic violence that are women 95 %
On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day.
A child’s exposure to the father abusing the mother is the strongest risk factor for transmitting violent behavior from one generation to the next.

And for the record I’m a guy who has been called every name in the book in other places by them. I love to laugh at that.

Well, hey howdy Sagamanus. Welcome to Manboobz!

Just remember, dude…men keep to their places, here.

Just kidding! Have fun.