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are these guys 12 years old? evil fat fatties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA rape culture reddit that's completely wrong

Just two dudes, talkin’ ’bout rape on the Men’s Rights subreddit

I thought this little exchange was so special it deserved to be shared.

ILoveHate 18 points 21 hours ago (25|7)  Why is it that I always see the hambeasts worried about rape and not the cute girls on the volleyball team?      permalink     save     source     report     give gold     save     reply     hide child comments  [–]Bartab 21 points 17 hours ago (27|9)  Because the cute ones turn guys down all the time and nothing happens.  Fatties never turn them down, so they have this huge fantasy that if they did it would end in violence.

Thanks to AMRThrowaway for highlighting it in the first place.

EDIT: I updated the image. Now with more upvotes!

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katz
7 years ago

Sagamanus: Please accept this welcome package!

kittehserf
7 years ago

Hi and welcome, Sagamanus!

Off-topic is usually on topic here. Especially when kitties are involved. It’s really only trolls who do unwelcome off-topic stuff. 🙂

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

And for the record I’m a guy who has been called every name in the book in other places by them

Oh, cool, a mangina! Nice to have you here.

katz
7 years ago

I see, but to me that still doesn’t feel quite right. It kinda is in conflict with the notion that we *should* be able to expect men to control themselves enough not to go out and rape people. It circumvents victim blaming only by giving the perpetrator a different motive, and not by establishing that victims aren’t at fault.

But I suppose it’s you who has to put up with people arguing such BS, so it’s you who has to find the best arguments…

I see what you’re getting at here, and at the end of the day I think it depends what kind of discussion you are having. If someone is saying “women should be responsible for not getting raped,” then yes, the right tack is to put the onus on the rapists and a simple “men shouldn’t rape women, period” is fine. But if someone is saying “castrate the rapists,” then you have to get into why that doesn’t make sense (besides the human rights abuse part, of course).

Skanky Tits
7 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

The biggest local Socialist organization where I live routinely covers for male members who beat their partners and/or serially sexually assault women.

“I agree that he’s probably a rapist, but he hasn’t done anything in, like, a year and THE MOVEMENT NEEDS HIM.” <– actual quote

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

Those attitudes go all the way to the top. That’s how Strauss-Kahn got away with raping and molesting women for so long… you know, the French guy who nearly got to lead the IMF but then stumbled an alleged attempted rape – which he probably did not commit, IIRC, but he committed enough of those back home in France over the years, apparently. And he always got away with it, because he was a famous politician, somebody with power, but also because his party, the Socialists, would always cover for him. I mean, you can’t just discuss this stuff in public, it would damage the party, right! That’s apparently what the mother (a loyal party member) of one victim advised her daughter, to not cause harm to come to the party…

So, yeah. All the way to the top.

@Katz: I agree, that seems like a reasonable distinction.

vaiyt
7 years ago

No matter what BS claims people may make about “uncontrollable drives” or “women tempting them”, even if they were true (which of course they aren’t), we should under *all circumstances* be able to expect people not to rape other people.

The argument from uncontrollable drives is not an argument against the liberty of women, it’s an argument in favor of locking up all men until they can prove they can exist in civilized society.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

This is my first time commenting on this site as I have just discovered it. While I visit a few sites that can be termed feminist, they are sometimes frustrating because they aren’t willing to really challenge the MRA’s or the ‘Gamers’ too much for fear of giving them traffic. And yeah I can understand that. Those POS at places like ROK(Return of the Kings) think they’re the center of the world and take any mention of themselves as a sign that they are ascending into the public realm, and feminism’s destruction is just around the corner. This site can walk a different line as I peruse the archives I can see that Futrelle does call them out on their BS. So I’m here to stay.

PS – I hope it was ok to post this here as it is off topic. Anyway bookmarked. And for the record I’m a guy who has been called every name in the book in other places by them. I love to laugh at that.

Howdy! Hope you like SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES, we burn a lot of them here. In total misandry, natch.

Falconer
7 years ago

@samantha: It’s cool that you play D&D with your grandkids. I’m hoping my wee ones will be interested, but of course it’ll be a while.

Out of curiosity, what version do you play? I have a soft spot for Basic, myself.

trans_commie
7 years ago

@Octo

I see, but to me that still doesn’t feel quite right. It kinda is in conflict with the notion that we *should* be able to expect men to control themselves enough not to go out and rape people. It circumvents victim blaming only by giving the perpetrator a different motive, and not by establishing that victims aren’t at fault.

But we can make both arguments: we can say that rape isn’t really about sex but rather about power and say that regardless of that fact, men shouldn’t rape anyway.

In any case, the point by itself does counter victim-blaming because one reason we point out the power aspect of rape is to highlight the fact that rapists aren’t just innocent fools who don’t mean any harm. When rapists are recognized as those who want to dehumanize, humiliate, and violate other human beings, they lose power in society because they are at the same time recognized as people who are morally corrupt. It’s not just about assigning a different motive to the male rapist. It’s about holding them accountable and resisting narratives that portray rapists as slaves to their libido. Victim-blaming is still possible when another motive is assigned to rapists, but it is far more likely to happen when society compares a man raping a woman to, say, a hungry man stealing food out of desperation (neither the man nor the hungry person can help himself).

It’s important to talk about the etiology of rape i.e. whether it’s about sex or power because it is through that discourse that we are able to more accurately critique and resist rape culture. When we reduce the cause of rape to sexual motivations only, we enable rapists who hide behind a discourse of sexuality that constructs sex as synonymous with power.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

@claudiah – this isn’t another one where he deamnds to be housed in a women’s refuge even whent they offer him vouchers for a hotel, is it? Who was it who did that particularly infuriating call?

Perrins is a total ass-hat. Because attempting his gotcha is far more important than an abused woman maybe not being able to contact support.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@titianblue, No in this case he is not offered vouchers for a hotel, though she does offer to refer him to a men’s shelter (not a men’s DV shelter). She’s actually very sympathetic, acknowledges that men are also victims of abuse and that there should be more resources for them, and he kind of goes off on her a few times. In the call, Perrins swings back and forth between rage-garble and acknowledging that she is in fact being very nice. He doesn’t seem very stable. He also makes up a bunch of “facts” about DV.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Yes. Also, frankly, I get really sick of talking about the sexual parts of rape. It feels like making a cake of shit and then insisting it’s a real cake. No. It might be cake-SHAPED, even pass for cake under casual inspection, but is not, in fact, a delicious dessert. It’s shit.

“How dare you not eat this cake!”

“Dude, that’s not cake. It’s shit.”

“If you tried hard enough, it would taste fine.”

“Uh, no. No it wouldn’t. BECAUSE IT IS SHIT.”

“Well, maybe if you weren’t such an asshole all the time, I wouldn’t have to feed you shit. I would be able to make you real cake.”

“Dude, I DON’T EVEN WANT CAKE FROM YOU.”

That’s not to say rape doesn’t leave sexual injury. Of course it does. That’s the entire POINT. But it still feels like a non sequitur and distraction to me to keep calling shit cake.

trans_commie
7 years ago

LBT, that is a fantastic analogy. I want to steal it, if that’s okay with you.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Go for it, Ally. You are more than welcome to it.

Seriously, I feel like half the fight regarding rape is getting people to see it as shit and not cake.

“Maybe they got confused and THOUGHT they were giving you cake…”

“Dude, it’s SHIT. How do you NOT NOTICE that you’ve made a cake of shit?”

“Maybe they’re just really, really into shit cake and presumed you would be too!”

“DUDE IT IS SHIT WHO FOISTS SHIT ON PEOPLE WTF”

“Maybe you misunderstood and they told you it was shit at the start, and you just didn’t hear them so they thought you were totally okay with it…”

“ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH???? You CHECK before shoving shit cake down somebody’s throat, Jesus Christ!”

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Falconer

@samantha: It’s cool that you play D&D with your grandkids. I’m hoping my wee ones will be interested, but of course it’ll be a while.

Out of curiosity, what version do you play? I have a soft spot for Basic, myself.

HI, Falconer. Mostly a mishmash of 1st and 2nd editions. Muy fun! My current characters (we have two games going, one with son and grandsons, the other with just son) are a 15th level Ranger and about the same level Elf Cleric. Ranger runs with all – son is a Halfling, elder grandson is an Elf fighter and younger is a Dwarf fighter. And our housemate, a very old and dear friend, is the DM.

And you?

I love Sundays. 🙂

Falconer
7 years ago

@samantha: My group tends to prefer 3rd Edition, at least at lower levels. We played one campaign for the bulk of 2012 and got up to about 13th level, and the DM was feeling like he couldn’t challenge the fighter without splatting anybody else. Not to mention all of the modifiers, especially since I was running a cleric and between me and the bard we were buffing everyone. At the end of the campaign, the Big Bad copied all of our effects and it took us half an hour to enumerate them all for the DM because we’d just got done killing his pet dragon.

I ran a Basic/First Edition game last October using Tegel Manor, which is a classic haunted-house, funhouse dungeon. For instance, there’s 100 portraits of members of the Rump family, and if you look at any one of them, there’s a good chance something amusing will happen, like you get a rain cloud following you, or you get teleported to the vampire’s bedroom…. There’s also a kitchen that sticks in my memory, because it has a pie with two dozen dead birds in it, and another that’s a plum pie with a grisly garnish.

It was lots of fun and we didn’t get nearly a quarter of it explored. By the end of it, though, the guy who’d only played 3rd Edition was complaining about THAC0.

Right now we’re gearing up for a space-pulp game using Savage Worlds. Bubble helmets, rocket ships, ray guns, evil space queen, bird people, Amazon Warrior Maidens, the works. It’s gonna be fun.

kittehserf
7 years ago

But we can make both arguments: we can say that rape isn’t really about sex but rather about power and say that regardless of that fact, men shouldn’t rape anyway.

In any case, the point by itself does counter victim-blaming because one reason we point out the power aspect of rape is to highlight the fact that rapists aren’t just innocent fools who don’t mean any harm. When rapists are recognized as those who want to dehumanize, humiliate, and violate other human beings, they lose power in society because they are at the same time recognized as people who are morally corrupt. It’s not just about assigning a different motive to the male rapist. It’s about holding them accountable and resisting narratives that portray rapists as slaves to their libido. Victim-blaming is still possible when another motive is assigned to rapists, but it is far more likely to happen when society compares a man raping a woman to, say, a hungry man stealing food out of desperation (neither the man nor the hungry person can help himself).

It’s important to talk about the etiology of rape i.e. whether it’s about sex or power because it is through that discourse that we are able to more accurately critique and resist rape culture. When we reduce the cause of rape to sexual motivations only, we enable rapists who hide behind a discourse of sexuality that constructs sex as synonymous with power.

HUGE applause, standing ovation for this, Ally. You said what I was trying to, and much, much more eloquently.

Falconer
7 years ago

But since Wizards of the Coast has been publishing out-of-print adventures and supplements in the last year or so, my interest in Basic/Expert and 1st Edition published material has grown a lot.

Yutolia
Yutolia
7 years ago

99% of women love starbucks… hmmmmm. It seems to me like I’m always meeting men who love starbucks and women who can’t stand it for a variety of reasons (yes, that is anecdotal, I know, but my experience is worth something to me at least). I think their coffee tastes burned, and generally would prefer gas station coffee over it (but hey – I grew up with geologists and traveling and camping in with few services outside of the local gas station is a big part of that profession!) If they want to get me a real treat, they can watch me go to one of our tasty local coffee shops and get myself a cup of tea (BY MYSELF, hehehe!)

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Also, frankly, I get really sick of talking about the sexual parts of rape. It feels like making a cake of shit and then insisting it’s a real cake. No. It might be cake-SHAPED, even pass for cake under casual inspection, but is not, in fact, a delicious dessert. It’s shit.

Yes to this, a thousand times over. I often say that sexual assault isn’t sex, it is ASSAULT. An assault in which the genitalia are the weapons, and/or the target. (Mouth, anus, and in some cases, breasts, are also targets.) Rape may look like sex, it may employ all the same basic mechanics as sex, but it isn’t sex. I really must remember this shit-cake metaphor, because it says it perfectly.

PS: Speaking of shit that looks like food…

This sketch kills me every time.

Yutolia
Yutolia
7 years ago

99% of women love starbucks… hmmmmm. It seems to me like I’m always meeting men who love starbucks and women who can’t stand it for a variety of reasons (yes, that is anecdotal, I know, but my experience is worth something to me at least). I think their coffee tastes burned, and generally would prefer gas station coffee over it (but hey – I grew up with geologists and traveling and camping in with few services outside of the local gas station is a big part of that profession!) If they want to get me a real treat, they can watch me go to one of our tasty local coffee shops and get myself a cup of tea (BY MYSELF, hehehe!)

*traveling and camping in areas with

Yutolia
Yutolia
7 years ago

Wow, I’m not even sure how that comment got on this topic… I honestly thought I was replying to the starbucks one… Wow… Well, there were some weird technical glitches that happened while I was replying so maybe that explains it… :S

Quackers
Quackers
7 years ago

TW for blatant rape apology and victim blaming

“No one actually believes women deserve it” squeal the MRAs…except when they do.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/590282/brazilians-say-women-in-revealing-clothes-deserve-rape-poll

MEZ
MEZ
7 years ago

I’m going to paraphrase something that someone much smarter than me has said; rape is sex in the same way that a kiss is a punch in the mouth.

MEZ
MEZ
7 years ago

Also, I’m a women with a high sex drive and I completely, 100% believe that sex is an appetitive need. However, “a high libido” doesn’t cause rape any more than “hunger” causes people to eat each other’s livers or “loneliness” causes people to kidnap. Anyone whom say “horniness” causes rape is an asshat, recent misrepresentations of my posts aside.

Ironically, men, as a group, don’t have higher libidos than women, as a group, do. If only women could use their libido as an excuse to get away with shit…. fuck, it’s almost like men are privileged or entitled or something! 😮

emilygoddess
7 years ago

@Samantha, I’ve never heard of that guy, but I’m not surprised. The connections between the Pagan old guard and the sexual revolutionaries seem to have created a perfect storm of prude-shaming and “but we’re a fertility religion!” that makes a good cover for abusers. And of course Pagans, like kinksters and poly folks, have enough legit reasons to fear outsiders that they can justify inaction or rallying around the accused as a form of community solidarity.

Nor am I surprised to see discussions of the issue turn into petty bickering among the Big Name Pagans. Christian Day and Peg Aloi are going at it in the comments on the Wild Hunt, helpfully reminding me why I don’t like to be associated with the broader Pagan “community”.

Fair warning to everyone: Predators exist everywhere, even in the spiritual communities.

Possibly “especially in spiritual communities”, because their status in the community can be used to shield them. My SIL had a guy occasionally peep in her window while she was a teen, and when her mom finally caught him and got him arrested, his lawyer tried to argue that he shouldn’t be punished because he was a minister (!) and had no prior record. My MIL was like “lol no”.

Oh and there was a few months back a really great set of photos of male victims holding signs of the disgusting things they were told by their rapists. Great photos in that it brought awareness. They were all very brave men.

Was it from Project Unbreakable? That’s a really cool project.

Poor, poor, tortured, misunderstood victim of his own weaknesses. How can we be so cruel to him by pointing out that his VICTIMS are the ones who need our help and compassion?

One of the worst things about Alcoholics Anonymous (at least where I got sober, but I’ve heard this from others as well) was the tendency to go on about how the sexual predators in our midst were “sick, suffering alcoholics” like the rest of us. Yeah, so were the newcomers they groomed and took advantage of, who are now back out there, without the support of AA and with one more pain to try to drink away – but hey, can’t save ’em all.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: emilygoddess

One of the worst things about Alcoholics Anonymous (at least where I got sober, but I’ve heard this from others as well) was the tendency to go on about how the sexual predators in our midst were “sick, suffering alcoholics” like the rest of us.

Wasn’t that the so-called “eleventh step?” I’ve heard about that.

RE: MEZ

rape is sex in the same way that a kiss is a punch in the mouth.

Yes. I have had rough or kinky sex with hubby that was very sweet and life-affirming and left me grinning and happy afterward. My rapist, on the other hand, was much tamer but left me crying in a ball afterward. It wasn’t the what, but the HOW that made all the difference.

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Bina

I often say that sexual assault isn’t sex, it is ASSAULT. An assault in which the genitalia are the weapons, and/or the target. (Mouth, anus, and in some cases, breasts, are also targets.) Rape may look like sex, it may employ all the same basic mechanics as sex, but it isn’t sex. I really must remember this shit-cake metaphor, because it says it perfectly.

Treating rape as a sexual act is a way to back off from that profound violence of the assault. It amazes me how readily people try to make one act look like sometyhing else, especially when the act is ACTUALLY a violent and repellent one.

Kind of like Orwellian double-speak. When the perpetrators and their supporters control the definitions in the dialogue, they can make people believe what they are told, not what they experience or know to be true. Case in point, when I was 17 I was involved in a psychological experiment. I was shown, along with a few other folk, a picture of two lines. One was obviously shorter then the other. We were told to choose which one was the shorter line. The people on either side of me insisted that the longer was actually the shorter. They put a LOT of pressure on me to agree with them. After all, we are all conditioned to go along with the majority. I chose the true shorter line, but I was in an intense sweat over that. What I did not know was that the other folk were confederates of the experimenters, deliberately putting pressure on me to agree. I later found out that something like 90+% of people will go along with what they are told. I had nightmares about it for days afterward.

It is really hard to hang onto your own sense of reality when so many others pressure you to go along. That is how despots and rape apologists and other nasty sorts get away with it

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  Quackers

“No one actually believes women deserve it” squeal the MRAs…except when they do.

Yup…and they do. Glad to see, however, that there was outrage in blogs and social media over this.

Thanks for the link!

samantha
samantha
7 years ago
Reply to  emilygoddess

@Samantha, I’ve never heard of that guy, but I’m not surprised.

The story was in the following edition of The Wild Hunt:
Allegations Emerge After Pagan Author Charged With Possessing Child Pornography in The Wild Hunt 3/28/2014

And of course Pagans, like kinksters and poly folks, have enough legit reasons to fear outsiders that they can justify inaction or rallying around the accused as a form of community solidarity.

Yes, I can understand that part, although I do not agree with it. What really bothered me about the article were the stories of now-grown kids whose PARENTS would not credit them. And that seems to be the case in so many areas – parents do not want to know, when the abuser is someone they respect or like or just seems like a nice guy. My favorite uncle started to touch me when I was 14 and my family just told me that it was harmless, he was an old man, I should make nice. Bleah! No wonder those kids are angry! And some of them even doubt themselves.

Christian Day and Peg Aloi are going at it in the comments on the Wild Hunt, helpfully reminding me why I don’t like to be associated with the broader Pagan “community”.

I have not been keeping up with the comments, but I am not surprised. And I hear you about not being associated with the broader community. I am a happy solitary. 🙂

Possibly “especially in spiritual communities”, because their status in the community can be used to shield them.

I am reminded of the ongoing problems with priests. And the pictures on the url you sent tell the whole story. Makes me so sad.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Enh, when it comes to abusers and asshats, I am inclined to run to that old proverb: “Power corrupts.”

It’s part of the reason I am happy to be a small fish.

calburn88
7 years ago

Reblogged this on Discombobulate.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is one concept whose spread I strongly disagree with.

trans_commie
7 years ago

I think the concept of “rape culture” is offensive and portrays all males as rapists in disguise because of some retards on the internet. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it is one concept whose spread I strongly disagree with.

And yet you use an ableist slur. Hypocrite much?

Also, no one here cares about your opinion on rape culture because you have already demonstrated that you have no idea what it is.

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

…You obviously have no idea what the concept even means.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

That’s rather rude. If you think I’m wrong, explain it to me.

katz
7 years ago

Duder, people who pop up and announce their irrelevant opinions on topics they know nothing about are not people to whom things can be explained.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Why are you being so mean? I’ve posted here before and people were nice.

katz
7 years ago

I simply think that people who pop up and announce their irrelevant opinions on topics they know nothing about are not people to whom things can be explained. Sorry if this offends you, but proud and wanton ignorance is one thing whose spread I strongly disagree with.

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

The concept of “rape culture” is not about male behaviour. Not at all! It’s about how society (*both* men and women) *treat* rape. In short, society has a very narrow definition of rape cases which are actually condemnable. I mean, the archetypical case of a rape, what people have in their heads when they hear the term, is a stranger randomly attacking and raping a woman. This of course neglects the fact that most rape cases are actually committed by people the victim knew. What’s more, even if a case fits the stereotypical image, society will only condemn it if the woman has no prior record of above average sexual activity, partying, etc. For anything else, society (which, again, includes both men and women) has a tendency to make up excuses for the perpetrators, or to outright blame the victim.

For example, that one incident, where a CNN reporter during the Steubenville rape case showed more empathy towards the rapists than the victims – that’s an example of internalized rape culture. And that reporter was female. Or when all the allegations against Strauss-Kahn in France came up… and how one of his victims reported how her mother had told her not to report the rape, because that would hurt the Socialist Party… again, that would be another example, again done by a woman.

Rape culture, is not “all men are potential rapists”. Rape culture is blaming the victim, making up excuses for the perpetrators, emphasizing more with them than the victims, downplaying the severity of rape, denying non-violent forms of rape are rape, and son. Rape culture is about how rape victims are left alone and failing to provide any deterrence for rape, leading to, essentially, the promotion of it.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Where did you develop the assumption that I am proud of not knowing something? I’d rather be educated about something than not know :C

katz
7 years ago

Well, you don’t know what rape culture is, and you sounded awfully proud of your opinion.

If you want to be educated on a topic, don’t come in loudly announcing your already-decided opinion about it.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

Ah. Well I was already aware of all of that. I didn’t know that was what was called rape culture, I just thought that was willful ignorance of what rape actually is. Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings. Thank you for explaining. As a gay man I have to deal with ignorance everywhere, and I don’t really appreciate just being told I am not worth explaining something to. It’s depressing to be told things like that.

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

My ignorance of the subject was not willful. I have read other websites and none have provided a description as succinct and understandable as the one Octo provided. I deeply apologize for any problems I have caused.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

For one thing you could have easily educated yourself about the concept of rape culture by simply googling it. You didn’t need to prance in here and make pronouncements. You also didn’t need to use a word that is extremely offensive to people with disabilities. You didn’t seriously expect that comment would be well received did you?

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Ninja’d!

Alex
Alex
7 years ago

What does that mean? Are you rubbing in the fact that I was wrong after I have apologized?

katz
7 years ago

While we’re in an edjamacatin’ mood, don’t use the word “retard” again.