Categories
a new woman to hate a voice for men a woman is always to blame advocacy of violence antifeminism entitled babies evil women excusing abuse FemRAs GirlWritesWhat harassment hypocrisy mantrum men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA narcissism not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability paul elam playing the victim things that aren't satire threats

After a feminist activist at Queen’s University reports being attacked, possibly by an MRA, the king of “f their sh*t up” responds with angry denial

Paul Elam: Anger is "pulsing through my veins like molten lava" at the very notion that MRAs are violent.
Paul Elam: Anger is “pulsing through my veins like molten lava.”

A student at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, says she was attacked and beaten by a strange man after receiving threatening messages about her opposition to a Men’s Rights group on campus. On Thursday, Danielle d’Entremont posted a picture of her bruised face to Facebook along with this explanation:

Just walked out of my house and got attacked by a stranger. I was punched in the face multiple times and lost half my tooth. This was after a few threatening emails regarding my support for feminist activities on campus. I can’t say for sure if the two are connected, however the attacker was a male who knew my name.

The campus Men’s Issues Awareness Society (MIAS) – the group d’Entremont has been fighting – has condemned the attack, as has the Canadian Association for Equality (CAFE), which co-sponsored a talk the MIAS put on Thursday. The police are investigating.

Right now, this is pretty much all we know about the story. Not that it this has stopped MRAs from offering their very fervent opinions on the matter.

Before we get to them, here are a few of my own:

If it turns out that the attacker is, as seems likely, a Men’s Rights activist – or some freelance misogynist vaguely associated with that milieu – it will not exactly be a surprise. Feminist activists who challenge Men’s Rights activists – or indeed challenge sexism in any sufficiently public manner – often find themselves the recipients of angry, abusive and threatening messages, sometimes numbering in the hundreds.

While most prominent MRAs are smart enough to avoid making specific threats of physical violence in public, their “activist” campaigns often target individual women, often college students and individual activists rather than women with any real power in society, almost certainly because those with less power are easier to intimidate.

And for all their talk of being the “civil rights movement” of the 21st century, Men’s Rights activists rely on rhetoric steeped in violence and hatred. It wasn’t Martin Luther King who declared of his opponents that “the thought of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.” It was Paul Elam of A Voice for Men, probably the most influential Men’s Rights activist on the scene right now.

I don’t know who attacked d’Entremont. But given the number of threats being made towards feminist activists on a daily basis, it is inevitable that women (and perhaps some men) who’ve publicly opposed the Men’s Rights movement will be the targets of real violence. Inevitable.

And much of the responsibility for this violence will rest with Elam and other Men’s Rights leaders who have deliberately stoked the anger and hatred of their followers and directed much of it at individual female scapegoats. If your favorite slogan is “Fuck Their Shit Up” you can’t pretend you’re an innocent angel when someone inspired by your words actually does Fuck Someone’s Shit Up.

And it doesn’t help when MRAs like Elam try to make violence against women into a kind of joke. Here, at left, is a screenshot from a notorious post by Elam promoting his supposedly “satirical” notion of turning Domestic Violence Awareness Month into Bash a Violent Bitch Month; yes, that picture ran, with that caption, on Elam’s original post. At right, the picture of herself that d’Entremont posted to her Facebook page.

[TRIGGER WARNING for images of violence against women. Post continues after picture.]

.

.

.

Click on image for larger version.
Click on image for larger version.

Of course, this isn’t how Elam and his friends see the issue. The moment the story of the attack broke, a special A Voice for Men Flying Squad of commenters descended upon the website of the student newspaper of Queens University to set forth all the reasons they thought d’Entremont was a lying liar. Attila Vinczer, AVFM’s offical “Activism Director,” was especially active:

QUattilaQUattila2QUasttila3

Yeah, Attila, I’m pretty sure criminal investigations don’t work like that.

Meanwhile, AVFM Contributing Editor Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan attempted to minimize d’Entremont’s injuries in a rather inventive way:

QUkarenOther commenters (evidently not affiliated with AVFM) offered variations on “she had it coming to her.”

QUfrustrationQUsasha(These aren’t consecutive comments; they’re separate image files smushed together. I edited out some less interesting bits of the second one.)

But it was Elam himself who launched the most vociferous attack on d’Entremont; indeed, in a long and rage-filled post titled “A whiff of bullshit at Queen’s University,” he declared that the very notion that MRAs might pose a threat to feminist activists to be a “scummy, Futrellian fantasy fiction spin game.”

Huh. I’m pretty sure I didn’t make up the hundreds of abusive and/or threatening messages that a certain red-haired feminist activist received for the crime of yelling at a couple of A Voice for Men dudes on camera once. Or those received by Rebecca Watson for the crime of suggesting that maybe dudes shouldn’t hit on gals who are riding a hotel elevator alone at 4 AM. Or those received by any of countless other women who have found themselves labeled enemy-of-the-week by MRAs, antifeminists, and other misogynistic creeps online.

Oh, and there was that creepy threatening phone message I got at 1:38 AM one December from one of AVFM’s own activists who was too dumb to hide his own identity properly.

But in any case, Elam for some reason has decided that the best way to convince the world that MRAs are reasonable people who would never resort to violence is to declare that he is overcome by his own anger. No, really:

[N]ow I am angry. I am 100% completely, undeniably pissed off bordering on rage. It won’t last, but for the moment it is pulsing through my veins like molten lava.

And what makes him angry? The very thought that someone might assume that a woman who was an active opponent of an Men’s Rights organization might have been targeted because of her activism — and assaulted by an MRA who, like Elam, might have had anger “pulsing through [his] veins like molten lava.”

There’s really not much more to Elam’s post than that. He makes a joke about d’Entremont trolling for “likes” on Facebook for the picture of her beaten face. He demands “proof” and predicts there will be none:

There will never be any evidence that she was attacked by an MHRA. They will probably not catch her supposed “attacker,” and the incident will wind up unresolved because there is no evidence to make a case against anyone, or at the very least not against any MHRA. The story will still get major traction with feminist ideologues, though, who will use it to mischaracterize MHRAs as violent so they can continue to attack the formation of new men’s issues groups.

And then he starts his rant in earnest:

I want to hear a police official say they have reason to believe it was men’s activists, and then share the identity of the person of interest with the public. I want them to make inquiries to this website to look for leads. With all the victim posturing over the years from feminists about AVFM, I have never heard from a single police official. Not once.

I want to know for sure that this woman, who posts this shit to her Facebook page but does not want to be identified, and her friend, who also does not want to be identified, are not both liars.

I want to see, with all the wolf crying that feminists have done about MHRAs, one tiny, even microscopic shred of fucking proof of anything they say.

I want to know if they are more credible than the zombie apocalypse. Rather I should say I would like to see them prove they are for a change.

And if my hunch, check that, experience, is right, and there are lies involved in this case, I want to see those responsible go to jail just as much as I want to see her attacker, if he actually exists, do the same.

Huh. That’s a lot of demands, Paul. I’m pretty sure the police have more pressing priorities in their investigation than mollifying the narcissistic rage of an internet ranter.

But I think we can see what is happening here: Unless the police are able to quickly identify and arrest a man who is clearly associated with a Men’s Rights group for this crime, and unless he is quickly convicted of this crime, MRAs – led by Elam and his followers – are going to declare d’Entremont a “false accuser” if not an outright hoaxer, and target her for further harassment and abuse. All while loudly proclaiming that they are the real victims here. (Never mind that they never apply even a fraction of such skepticism towards the tall tales of feminist oppression told by serial fabricators like John Hembling.)

Elam ends his post with these inspiring words:

Please note: AVfM is in the middle of its Spring Fundraiser. Please help us continue to spread the message. Click here to contribute.

Because A Voice for Men LLC, after all, is a business – albeit one that’s apparently forbidden from conducting business in the state of Texas – and its business is hate.

EDITED TO ADD: John Hembling — AVFM’s “Director, Public Policy” and “Editor at Large” — has weighed in with his own take on the attack, which he has puzzlingly titled “Don’t Bash a Violent Bitch,” helpfully illustrated with a picture of a nerdy fellow brandishing a fist. (Classy!) In it he loudly proclaims to be shocked — shocked! — that anyone could imagine any MRA could be responsible for such a crime, which is totally opposed to everything that the peace-loving Men’s Human Rights Movement stands for.

Then he goes on to argue that “Slugger d’Entremont” (!?) is an “asshole” who probably brought this upon herself by being such an asshole:

I expect that whoever bashed Danielle d’Entremont in the face is somebody she knows, who has been dealing with her for years. Maybe her attempt to silence Professor Fiamengo was what did it, maybe it was something else. The timing of the incident, thus far, does not indicate a connection.

Really? The attack happened the night before Fiamengo’s lecture.

An individual attempting to censor and silence somebody speaking on human rights concerns of any group, men or otherwise, is likely an individual that’s an asshole with a past.

How exactly she is a “violent bitch” he never exactly explains. Perhaps someone else wrote the headline. It’s not like there’s a shortage of “editors” at AVFM eager to blame the victim of this particular crime.

398 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
samantha
samantha
10 years ago

I noticed some dude on The Myth of Male Power Amazon site provided this list to prove that women have never been denied access to power:

Catherine the Great
Helen of Troy
Margaret Thatcher
Elizabeth I
Mary, Queen of Scots
Queen Victoria
Cleopatra
Elizabeth Bathory
Hillary Clinton

(uncontrollable giggling) Oh…that is just pathetic. And what would they say if we produced the incredibly long list of men in power to show that patriarchy actually exists?

No, wait, do not tell me…feminist women CREATED the patriarchy and put men in power just to fool everyone into thinking that women were/are victims and left out of power.

Octo
Octo
10 years ago

I somehow do not think so. I LOVED being pregnant and, when I was in labor and pushing the kiddo out, I *KNEW* what it was to be the Source of All Things giving birth to reality all the time.

It’s not like that option will go away. It’s just that another one will be opened up, and that is a good thing most of the times. I think many women do not share your opinion of pregnancy at all, and medically, a pregnancy can be pretty harmful to the body. Plus, it would allow women to do entirely without all the restrictions they usually face during pregnancy. In fact, if IVF and artificial wombs are combined, and in tandem with contraception, you could separate reproduction and sex all together. Which I think, yes, would help solve some social problems.

Also, it would be a help to male homosexual couples. Plus, to be honest, it would encourage a less mythical view on the whole thing then you have presented here 😉 Which I think might also be good.

Now, your point about how it would affect the embryo… yeah, that is a concern. It’s not even something supernatural. Even while the embryo is still in the womb, there is interaction with the mother. So, psychological factors could come into play here. But if those things are either not a concern, or could be worked out, then I think the development of artificial wombs would be a *great* thing, maybe even one of the socially most influential and greatest breakthroughs.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I could do with being trapped on the sofa like that.

Though prolly not today, it’s going to be hot again. (Just fuck off, summer, kthnx.)

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

Samantha – Henry VIII would be an excellent example of women really being in control.

(please tell me I didn’t need a /sarc tag for that)

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  katz

I am tilting my head this way and that trying to figure out if you are joking or serious or seriously just joking.

Actually, not joking at all. I really did love being pregnant and having the kids. And I really did read some stuff about the importance of growing inside the mother and how that connects us to our species.

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  Unimaginative

I remember reading something about that, too. Like, we can’t clone mammoths using elephant surrogates, because the babies would come out as elephants. I don’t know that there was any scientific support for that, though, it might have been a sci-fi kind of thing.

I do not think that it was sci-fi, although I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe I should look it up?

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  Octo

But if those things are either not a concern, or could be worked out, then I think the development of artificial wombs would be a *great* thing, maybe even one of the socially most influential and greatest breakthroughs.

Well, I guess that time and scientific advancement will tell, eh?

Plus, to be honest, it would encourage a less mythical view on the whole thing then you have presented here 😉

Not sure what you mean here. I can tell you that giving birth was, for me, one of the most pleasurable and powerful things I have ever felt. I actually went into an altered state each time.

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  Robert

Samantha – Henry VIII would be an excellent example of women really being in control.

(please tell me I didn’t need a /sarc tag for that)

(laughing…chortle…wiping eyes) Umm…no, you did not. Thanks for the hilarity. 🙂

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  cassandrakitty

Both of you have more courage and character in your little fingers than every member of the MRM rolled into a ball.

And that can be said, I am certain, of most everyone here. Thank you.

katz
10 years ago

Henry VIII would be an excellent example of women really being in control.

Or Scheherazade. That conniving woman, controlling her man through the use of cliffhangers!

Octo
Octo
10 years ago

I remember reading something about that, too. Like, we can’t clone mammoths using elephant surrogates, because the babies would come out as elephants. I don’t know that there was any scientific support for that, though, it might have been a sci-fi kind of thing.
But that does come down to biochemistry, actually. At least as far as I understand. The embryo wouldn’t come out as elephant, I don’t think; the question is if it could survive in an uterus belonging to a foreign (if closely related) species which hence has an own biochemistry. Enzymes, hormones, and stuff like that… could be it just all doesn’t fit together so a mammoth embryo couldn’t actually develop in an elephant uterus. Then again, the two species might be closely enough that it’s a compatibility match. AFAIK, we just don’t know.

Not sure what you mean here. I can tell you that giving birth was, for me, one of the most pleasurable and powerful things I have ever felt. I actually went into an altered state each time.

Well, your formulations like “the Source of All Things giving birth to reality” or “Something […] more than just the chemicals” or “powerful connection with this earth and with human-ness” kinda gave off that vibe to me. Mostly the first.

Octo
Octo
10 years ago

Oh my… that would be one instance when I’d be glad about a post edit function.

katz
10 years ago

A mammoth embryo grown inside an elephant would not become an elephant. This is not Horton Hatches the Egg.

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  kittehserf

Oh, I did a “chill out Pauly” aka Jack Torrance pic before – it’s here on the manboobzers group at Deviantart.

Good one! If only…we could leave him there until Hell freezes over as well…

samantha
samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  Octo

Well, your formulations like “the Source of All Things giving birth to reality” or “Something […] more than just the chemicals” or “powerful connection with this earth and with human-ness” kinda gave off that vibe to me. Mostly the first.

Ahhh….I understand. Actually, I am a Pagan, with a deep and abiding sense of Something.

Fine if that’s mythological to others. That is one of the nice things about my brand of Paganism. There is room for everything, so no foul and no offense. 🙂

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
10 years ago

Speaking of Hillary Clinton, here’s a random thought: Suppose she runs and wins the US presidency in 2016. Or just suppose there will be some woman as the US President in near future, someone who’s conventionally married to a man.

Now, I’ve already seen some predictions that Clinton’s victory would launch a huge misogynist shitstorm from the Right, lasting 4-8 years. Her presidency would show mainstream America that sexism still exists, just like Obama’s presidency showed that racism still exists.

So, what would be the Clinton equivalent for birther conspiracy? You know, those principled people on the Right who insist that Obama’s not legally or morally eligible for president because he was born in Kenya or because his father was Kenyan or because he’s just generally too damn foreign (associated conspiracies involve him being a Muslim or an Indonesian spy or a warrior for global justice). Here’s my prediction:

Clinton is ineligible for President, because back when she married Bill, she made some vow to obey him forever. Depending on the spin, this vow might be something that’s magically inherent in any “legitimate” marriage, or it might have been some special arrangement between Hillary and Bill, like a magically binding BDSM contract, because he knew back then that she would become President and wanted to to have power over her. So effectively Bill will be President again, which is extra unfair because he already served two terms and is also an adulterer. If you need to backtrack, you can go vague and just imply that married women tend to naturally obey their husbands. Of course none of this will prevent Hillary from also being a feminist harpy who caused her husband to cheat.

Let’s call it the “helpmeet conspiracy”. Remember folks, you heard it here first.

vaiyt
10 years ago

Now, I’ve already seen some predictions that Clinton’s victory would launch a huge misogynist shitstorm from the Right, lasting 4-8 years.

Nah, the shitstorm will start when she wins the primaries, possibly before if it becomes clear she’ll win.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

Catherine the Great
Helen of Troy
Margaret Thatcher
Elizabeth I
Mary, Queen of Scots
Queen Victoria
Cleopatra
Elizabeth Bathory
Hillary Clinton

…only one of whom was elected to power, and is regretted by the Brits to this day because she turned out to be a horrid old misogynist (and general misanthrope) in skirts. The rest were all either heirs to thrones, married to them, or appointed to public office by men. Your argument is invalid, Warren.

:: hugs samantha and Bina ::

Awww, thank you…>hugs back<

Do not say that. Every time a woman, or anyone, is treated as a “thing” to be used, even just a little, it is an attempt to destroy some part of the womans’ soul. Being terrorized takes many, many forms, and in a society like this it is really hard sometimes to tell the difference between a terrorist act and an innocent one.

See, this is why I knew I could talk about it here. That incident was so easy for everyone else to brush off as “small”. Even I did so at the time…I thought, “Well, there’s no sense talking more about it, it was just a lewd remark in a car and a little unwanted touching, big deal!” Some would say I’d brought it on, even though I knew I had done nothing to encourage him. (Why would I, when there were so many cute guys my own age on campus? A civil conversation is not “encouragement”.) Some would even say that this “poor guy” was only “socially awkward” and implied that I ought to have taken pity on him because his bedridden wife could no longer take care of his sexual needs. (Oh, so I was supposed to? Um, NO.) But I get the feeling this wasn’t the first time he’d made an inappropriate pass…the dismissive, placating tone with which I was fobbed off made me think they were secretly going “Oh crap, X did it again!” As for the social awkwardness, I was the awkward one. 20 years old, shy, introverted, not much experience at anything, and absolutely none when it came to warding off creepy older guys who I thought were my friends. And he didn’t just spring his “awkward” move on me in the classroom, or in the hall, or in the parking lot, but in his car…when it was moving. He waited until I had no chance to get away from him. So I’m very certain…NOW…that he knew exactly what he was doing. And it was a decidedly predatory move, although I’m sure he thought it was his only chance to “seduce” me. (As if THAT could happen!)

At the time, I was so bewildered, and of course I blamed myself for not seeing it coming. Now I know better. I learned from this site (and from other readings) that this happens a lot to young women, and not coincidentally. It’s not because they’re prettier or more fertile. It’s because they’re vulnerable, inexperienced, easily intimidated and cowed. These guys take full advantage of that. Reading about PUAs andd rape culture has taught me to recognize what I didn’t know then. Everyone always told me to beware the date-rapist my own age, and to watch my beer in the pubs, but no one said “Don’t ride home with talkative older guys, no matter how nice they seem!” If I could give 20-year-old me one piece of advice, it would have been that. I’d have told her to take her chances with the street, keep her head up, and just walk. That a 5-to-10-minute ride with a creeper isn’t “safer” than a 25-minute walk. That his “friendly” offers of “help” were just his way of getting me to where he wanted me.

Sorry about that wall-o-text. All I need is a DeLorean…

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

…aaand this thread seems to have taken it on itself to supply me with one. Keeps bouncing me back to the previous page. WTF?

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
10 years ago

That incident was so easy for everyone else to brush off as “small”. Even I did so at the time…

QFT. I was molested when I was 7 or 8, and even though I know in my head that it was Bad Enough, I still have this running bullshit idea that it Wasn’t That Bad, because so many other people have had it worse. To this day, decades later, I very rarely speak about it because the outpouring of support I get makes me very uncomfortable. Which is fucked up all on its own.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

I was molested when I was 7 or 8, and even though I know in my head that it was Bad Enough, I still have this running bullshit idea that it Wasn’t That Bad, because so many other people have had it worse. To this day, decades later, I very rarely speak about it because the outpouring of support I get makes me very uncomfortable. Which is fucked up all on its own.

You’re right, that IS fucked up…and it’s a fuckery that’s socially manufactured from toppum to bottomus. It didn’t originate with you, so I hope you don’t feel guilty about it. We’re taught to minimize bad things that happen to us just because we’re not starving children in Africa, or some such. As though being THAT sunk was finally “sunk enough” to take seriously! (How sunk IS “sunk enough”, anyway? Will being at death’s door do? Yeah, that’s fucked up.)

I am sorry that that happened to you. It doesn’t matter if it was a big assault or just one little incident that left no physical trace — it should not have happened, period. Whoever did it was old enough to know better, and chose to abuse their power. The more we remind ourselves of that, the easier it becomes not only for us to deal with our own decades-old shit, but to help others do the same.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
10 years ago

@ Bina

Have you read this essay? It goes into some of the stuff you’re getting at in a lot of detail. When it first came out I sent it on to pretty much every young woman I know, hoping it would get conversations started, and it did. We need to talk to each other about how universal this stuff is and how much damage it causes.

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/12/21/original-essay-the-not-rape-epidemic/

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

I am always amazed at the amount of courage and compassion of people on this site.

Hugs to Bina and samantha and anyone else who would like one.

And all Teh Cutez:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6KqSkGe0tM

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
10 years ago

Cassandra, that essay was amazing. Thanks for sharing it.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

@ Unimaginative

It’s the death by a thousand cuts, isn’t it? One incident alone people might recover from, but it’s never just one, and each little incident adds up, but nobody seems to acknowledge the damage it’s doing. Talking about it helps.

1 10 11 12 13 14 16