Today, just a recommendation: if you’d like to learn more about the wrongheaded and often quite bewildering opinions of Men’s Rights grandpappy Warren Farrell, take a look at the excellent Farrell’s Follies series now being posted on the AgainstMensRights subreddit. The Redditor known as feminista_throwaway has been systematically going through Farrell’s Myth of Male Power and looking in detail at Farrell’s positions on such issues as “Date Fraud,” why it’s supposedly easier to be a gay man than a straight man, why patriarchy is women’s fault, and how men and women don’t really love each other. There’s a guide to the whole series here.
@dunbe, What do you believe is the mechanism behind this?
“Just what do you believe is the cause of the extra pressure on men?”
The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.
“And why do women lack that incentive men have?”
Precisely because of that difference in pressure. Earning a lot of money and/or rising high in a career is very hard and by definition can only be accomplished by a minority. Nobody would do that unless they had a lot of reasons to do so.
“Literally no one here believes that patriarchy is centered around male conspiracy.”
Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago.
@dunbe, Can you link to the scholarly or other resources on the term “patriarchy” that inform your assumptions?
I’m going to sleep, but if you could answer my question (above) too, that would be great.
…I just can’t stay mad at you guys. Let’s get together for a furrinati concert.
Oh, so you’re one of those people. *sigh* Shouldn’t have asked.
Yes, it benefits men at the expense of women and men were most likely the ones who started it (for lack of better words), but it’s not universally maintained by men deliberately conspiring to oppress women. There are many things that keep patriarchy alive, most of which have nothing to do with conspiracy.
Well, obviously. Why would anyone want to earn a lot of money, prestige, and power unless they had to?
Geez, and where do you think those ideas of yours come FROM? Do you think they spring out from the ether? From your choice of terms I’d bet you think it’s biological because blah blah pleistocene blah blah hunting blah blah bullshit. Don’t even bother.
“Oh, so you’re one of those people. *sigh* Shouldn’t have asked.”
And that’s where I stopped reading. For a moment I thought somebody might actually want to discuss these issues so I answered the initial questions. But, my prediction that the response would just be religious bigotry, came true after all. What a surprise.
I guess patriarchy is just too comfortable an armchair to get out of. It excuses your failures, protects you from responsibility and makes you feel good, pure and innocent – helpless at the mercy of all the male privilege ramming its way relentlessly up your feminine innocence. You love that fantasy, huh?
I’m the last person to judge people for their kinks but imposing it on others without their consent, is, well, kind of rapey. You people are just like those takeninhand idiots only you’re even more dishonest about it than they are.
@cloudiah: I would also like some citations on the whole “women are more picky than men!” myth, because as someone who has been around his sister while she was going through her teenage years, that has NOT been my experience.
Who is being an idiot this time?
Welp, time for the regulars to pounce on this one.
I don’t care about arguing with people who center their gender analysis around some ridiculous mate selection theory. And I also don’t give a damn about people who accuse the other side of being “religious.” Your insults are so lazy.
Speaking of armchairs, you sure seem to be on one right now.
It looks like you’re one of those people who thinks that someone’s kinks can be easily discerned via an understanding of that person’s personality and beliefs. I’m surprised you even know what “kink” means.
So, genius, how do you explain all the men in low-paid jobs, or no jobs at all, who somehow or another have partners?
I wouldn’t touch a man who thought money and socio-economic status where what really mattered in romantic relationships. For that matter I wouldn’t touch a man who used terms like “mate selection” when talking about people.
Has it ever occurred to you that personality matters to women, and that the whole bullshit you’re trotting out is a handy excuse for men with toxic attitudes?
You had preconceived expectations about how we would response and you interpreted our actual responses as conforming to your expectations? That is indeed a shocker.
Oh, and I’ve emailed the Dark Lord about the troll referring to talking about patriarchy as some sort of rape kink.
“How we would response.” I’m a doof.
Fi fie foo fie foom
I sense a dunbe who be dealing with doom
Foo fie fin faal
from “cause of disparity” to “men must earn to get a gal”
fan fine foo fom flom
of reasons many, but “Women” justify it with one
Flip flap fee fuu fie
I do believe that you believe that we’ve all bought a lie
hip hap sip sap dap dip
preconcieved notions setting traps is pretty hip
grin groan giggle grasp
with our victim complex dunbe has taken us to task
sigh, sad, smile slow
how come who are so low still get a beau?
Blink, twitch, ponder, wonder, blink again
from “pressures” to “promotions” to “platitudes” to “pleasures”
( “your religious delusions is but a kink!”, bit of a strain )
Did you have a point that wasn’t mere markers of odd thoughts by any measures?
“how come who are so low still get a beau?”
is obviously
“How come men so low still have a beau?”
The importance of revisions, thus demonstrated.
Dumbe, stop trying to equate us with creationists for not taking you seriously, The theory of evolution is testable and falsifiable. It has been rigorously tested and passed those tests. It hasn’t been falsified.
What you are spouting is some evo psych nonsense. It isn’t testable and falsifiable. It is entirely based on pseudo-intellectual drivel and confirmation bias. Therefore, being skeptical of your claims is not one bit like being a young earth creationist.
You fail. Try harder next time.
The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.
Butts. Oppressive female butts.
Isn’t it cute how women rule the whole world with their butts?
Hey dunbe, take Farrell’s advice and go gay. You get 2 WHOLE HOURS of sex that way. It sure beats having to deal with all that mate selection. All men have to do is go gay and all their problems fade away!
I made a rhyme.
I’m not a virgin of the blockquote monster anymore!
*Beyonce voice* “Who’ll run the world? Butts!”
Is going gay like going Galt, only more fun?
Should it be called going gaylt?
*Aretha voice* “R.A.S.S.P.E.C.T.”
The logic and reasoning implied to deny the patriarchy and to present men in power as the really opressed ones is the same as if you for example try to argue that Josep Fritzl, a man who kept his own daughter captive for 24 years and had several children with her was the one who was opressed and his daughter was priviledged. Afterall his daughter was safe in that cellar and obviously she got provided with food and water and some basic care to keep her alive, but really she was the one in power this whole time and poor Josep was her victim.
Now this case is extreme, but it perfectly illustrates what MRA’s really believe in.
Dunbe, that rape metaphor was over the line. Any more of that and you’re headed for moderation and possibly banning. You can make your points without resorting to shit like that.