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a woman is always to blame antifeminism evil sexy ladies go read this homophobia men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA rape culture the myth of warren farrell

Check out the “Farrell’s Follies” series of posts on Reddit

Warren Farrell: Full of terrible ideas
Warren Farrell: His ideas are as bad as that logo

Today, just a recommendation: if you’d like to learn more about the wrongheaded and often quite bewildering opinions of Men’s Rights grandpappy Warren Farrell, take a look at the excellent Farrell’s Follies series now being posted on the AgainstMensRights subreddit. The Redditor known as feminista_throwaway has been systematically going through Farrell’s Myth of Male Power and looking in detail at Farrell’s positions on such issues as “Date Fraud,” why it’s supposedly easier to be a gay man than a straight man, why patriarchy is women’s fault, and how men and women don’t really love each other. There’s a guide to the whole series here.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Why is everyone persecuting Dunbe for his religious belief in the PUA theory of sexual selection? Why must you relentlessly mock his religion, which clearly provides him with both emotional comfort and a good excuse to harangue women? I strike this blow for freedom!

(But note how I’m able to do so without implying that he would enjoy being raped.)

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

Let’s also consider the fact that men have never been the sole providers of goods, especially in pre-industrial times when patriarchy really started. Women have always worked really hard to provide on top of taking care of their families. Even today in the developing pre-industrial world women produce most of the food, provide firewood, water and clothing, yet they own no land and men have authority everywhere.

So what’s the reason for the patriarchy, really? I personally find it hard to imagine that a system like that would arise by mutual consent, it looks more like a contract signed between a conquered and a conqueror parties.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

PS In my case the area in which men have to compete in order to attract my attention is their physical appearance. Good job, lots of money, nice car? Whatever, I just want them to be hot*. So actually, when you think about it, men are oppressing ME with their butts. When is the MRM going to address this terrible situation?

(* And also fun to be around, kind to cats/dogs/kids/their families/random service workers, politically progressive, and with a sense of humor that gels well with mine. But we know that concepts like “well matched personalities” are going to be a bit above Dunbe’s comprehension level.)

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

GEARS GEARS GEARS.
————-
Bloody hell, that’s depressing when you read all of it. I guess I hoped it’d at least be scholarly, in a way.

Hah. I read some of that aloud to mrmagnificent. He wanted to know if it was Freud for third graders.

So sort of scholarly, but with pictures to colour in.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Dunbe: you’re not bringing anything new to the table. We’ve heard everything you’ve said one million times before. Please up your game if you’re gonna troll here. kthxbai.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

And @Dunce shows how little he thinks of women.

Because, according to Dunce, the only reason that men occupy most of the positions of power is because they try harde . Yes, folks, it’s the bootstaps of misogyny.

If only women had an incentive, if only they weren’t so lazy, they could be just as successful in business, policitcs, you name it, as men. According to Dunce, there is no prejudicial hiring, firing, promation or pay. Women just can’t be arsed.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

And that’s where I stopped reading. For a moment I thought somebody might actually want to discuss these issues so I answered the initial questions. But, my prediction that the response would just be religious bigotry, came true after all. What a surprise.

Aw wooky, da pweshus widdle twoll commed in here wif such a cute widdle basket of stwaw-feminist feeries. And den he gotted mad when people torched da muvverfuckers and told him no, your theories are shit, try harder next time.

When do we get to see a flounce?

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

Further to the assault at Queen’s University mentioned by cloudiah, some of the comments cracked me up this morning. I’m not sure whether I should mention names so I’ll err on the side of caution and stick to initials.

AV (well-known hysterical MRA): Queen’s Journal is now censoring my comments.
JN: I have informed the Kingston Police that the MHRA are watching this very very carefully.
Me: LOL

AV: AVFM activists may be attending at the police station in an attempt to gather information about this very serious allegation against MHRAs. I would like to interview this alleged victim.

JN: I just sent Tom Leykis an e-mail. Also I have sent the AvFM article to many high school PTA facebook pages waring (sic) parents no (sic) to send their children to Queen’s as it sounds like a violent warzone.

Anyone for a facebook invasion? (link to the university’s Facebook page)

Wow, the fucking nerve of AV to presume that he ought to be allowed to interview an assault victim! First they rip off the Halifax police logo and lecture them for reacting and now this.

I’m sure high school PTAs will be real grateful for the heads up. Ha. The logic fail is stunning. A feminist was beat up and they’re playing the victim. They’re just begging for their campus men’s rights group to be de-ratified.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Auntie, that’s a hoot! So these guys think they get to police the police, now? And to intimidate — er, sorry, “Interview” people who don’t even want to talk to them, for reasons compelling?

The Greatest Human Rights Movement in the History of Evar, you guys!

Valerian
7 years ago

I am secretly a woman who applies cosmetics to half her face.

Actually, that’s very accurate. Related, I’m apparently an attention whore for being the actual subject of my avatar?

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

Haha, Bina. Their arrogance and sense of entitlement are astounding.

Falconer
7 years ago

@LBT:

I’m trans. Does that mean my husband loves me or not? 🙁

Honestly, we can’t tell unless we open the box and collapse the wave function.

@trans_commie:

And I’m not actually an undead teenage shrine maiden? The world is turning upside down. D=

I thought she was reincarnated. Obviously I haven’t watched much Inuyasha.

@J.J.:

I am a pink flower.

Which means I am a vagina.

Which means I am a 24/7 all access PAAAAAR-TAY. Or something.

No, obviously it means you are the embodiment of the STAMEN OF PRIVILEGE!

@trans_commie:

LBT is an array of green geometric shapes.

Yeah, but it’s a really deep array of green geometric shapes. Give me a blue book and I can fill it with the reasons why it’s so deep.

I, myself, am a lovable cuddly humanoid reptile with no eyelids and an aggressively imperial worldview. Let me lumber slowly forward and give you a hug!

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Auntie, that would be jaw-dropping if it were not MRAs you are quoting. I read a few of the comments on the first article, last night, and hadn’t the stomach to continue so kudos for wading through them.

The original article also irritated me with the professor telling feminist students not to attend as they could then be subjected to violence. Really? It is the feminist students who shouldhave their freedom of expression and right to protest curtailed because the MRAs are violent? What is wrong with this picture?

Just one thing, though. Could you not use “hysterical”, please, Auntie? Gendered slur. 🙁

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Women are averagely more selective

Do you have any actual evidence for this, as opposed to vague gut feelings?

You hear “women are sooo picky” all the time from MRAs, who then retreat back to their forums and blogs to rate women numerically on their looks and “market value”, complain about fatties, and discuss how women over 25 with previous boyfriends are used up, undateable hags. And they don’t see the least bit of irony in this. There are thousands of PUAs like laidinnyc (aka “My Seed Is Liquid Gold”) who wouldn’t be caught dead talking to, or even acknowledging the existence of, a non-conventionally attractive woman, because they’re so afraid it would damage their fake-alpha image. Whenever a woman speaks out, the go-to zinger is always “look at her, she’s ugly/fat/old/unattractive”. (I’ve never once heard someone try to silence a male public figure by poor-shaming him.) MRA standards for women are vicious, merciless, and virtually unattainable. No matter how women look or behave, there’s always some douchebro right there to loudly comment on what she’s doing wrong. Where do you get off claiming that women are more selective and it’s only men that ever have to put themselves out there and suffer rejection, mocking, and inadequacy?

Friendzoning isn’t something that happens only to men. Women experience it too, every day. The adult response to rejection is to be disappointed, then move on, not to pen 10,000 word internet manifestos on how “All Women Are Evil And Want X” and “All Men Are Virtuous And Want Y”. Those type of generalizations are totally inaccurate and useless as a model for real-world relationships. Non-upper-income men and women over 25 somehow manage to attract mates, fall in love, and get married all the time, despite evo-psych theorizing and wishful thinking. For you to come in here comparing us to creationists is a bit rich, considering the manosphere are the ones who are constantly using junk science, false equivalencies, and made-up facts to bolster their version of reality.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

I, myself, am a lovable cuddly humanoid reptile with no eyelids and an aggressively imperial worldview.

How do you type with those little arms? I can barely manage to keep this cupcake balanced on my forehead 24/7.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
7 years ago

Just one thing, though. Could you not use “hysterical”, please, Auntie? Gendered slur.

titianblue, I’m sorry! I didn’t realize it was when applied to a man. I’ll try my best to remember that and not use it again.

My impression was that the professor herself had been threatened. She said, “I was warned not to speak as I may be sent hate mail, death threats and potential physical attacks.” If that was an actual threat and not just speculation amongst the staff, I think she’d be remiss in not issuing a warning to the students. But absolutely women shouldn’t have to curtail their activities due to an atmosphere of violence.

It’s a perfect storm brewing in southern Ontario. This comes on the heels of rape threats directed at the student president at the University of Ottawa and the suspension of their entire hockey team over an alleged gang rape by some of the players.

In the “small world” file: the son of Kingston’s chief of police was one the students caught talking on Facebook about raping the student president. His initial response was to hire a lawyer and issue cease and desist orders to the president and a feminist blog that published screenshots of the conversation. I’ll bet that was daddy’s idea and his police force is investigating the Queen’s U assault. (Naturally, daddy and mommy defended sonny boy even after he admitted it.)

Falconer
7 years ago

@buttercup: Actually, it’s the claws that get in the way.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

My impression was that the professor herself had been threatened. She said, “I was warned not to speak as I may be sent hate mail, death threats and potential physical attacks.” If that was an actual threat and not just speculation amongst the staff, I think she’d be remiss in not issuing a warning to the students. But absolutely women shouldn’t have to curtail their activities due to an atmosphere of violence.

Oh, absolutely. “Free speech for me, rape/death threats for thee” is libertarian masculism at its finest. It also maketh my irony meter to implode.

In the “small world” file: the son of Kingston’s chief of police was one the students caught talking on Facebook about raping the student president. His initial response was to hire a lawyer and issue cease and desist orders to the president and a feminist blog that published screenshots of the conversation. I’ll bet that was daddy’s idea and his police force is investigating the Queen’s U assault. (Naturally, daddy and mommy defended sonny boy even after he admitted it.)

Oh, nice! And people wonder why such a small proportion of rapes get reported to the police. Couldn’t be because the male-dominated police force has a lot of rapey little skeletons in its own closet, now could it?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

@auggz, You are really annoyed because he has trespassed on your time and good will. He was not in need – he was conducting an experiment on you without your permission. He upset and scared you. He trampled over your boundaries and ignored every ethic that surrounds psychological experiments (if it was a proper experiment and not just some bigoted asshat trying to make a point).

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

In the “small world” file: the son of Kingston’s chief of police was one the students caught talking on Facebook about raping the student president. His initial response was to hire a lawyer and issue cease and desist orders to the president and a feminist blog that published screenshots of the conversation. I’ll bet that was daddy’s idea and his police force is investigating the Queen’s U assault. (Naturally, daddy and mommy defended sonny boy even after he admitted it.)

Somebody with a public twitter account please post this under the #Whywedontreport hashtag.

trans_commie
7 years ago

I’m sorry, auggz. That guy sounds like a total jerk with no respect for your boundaries.

And honestly, if I were in your situation, I would have no remorse saying that I would be less afraid of a girl doing the same thing to me. I know that other girls can be jerks just like guys – I know that from experience – but there seem to be far more guys who are comfortable with violating people’s boundaries than girls (even though not all guys are like that).

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

@Falconer – I stand (or float, rather) corrected. Sorry, I shouldn’t have assumed you were a T-Rex! That was theropod-centric of me.

@auggziliary – that definitely doesn’t sound legit. It sounds like an armchair experiment/street theater stunt thought up by a bunch of jerks at a cafeteria table. If it’s any comfort, most likely you disproved whatever thesis he was trying to prove (that men get unfairly creep-shamed more than women do?) without making any concessions that his experiment changed your perceptions in any way. I mean, really, what a waste of time…what did he expect, that you were going to say “Here, have half of my lunch” or “No, but if you were a girl, I’d totally give you food”?

coleopteron
coleopteron
7 years ago

@Auntie Alias

AVFM activists may be attending at the police station in an attempt to gather information about this very serious allegation against MHRAs. I would like to interview this alleged victim

Wow, such entitlement from “AV” and others.

Let’s just get a gang of arseholes to hang around the station lying in wait for the victim of an assault. Hopefully, since it’s the MRM, no one will show up because doing anything is too much effort.

Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to interview random victims of various crimes because of course the police need my uninformed and inexperienced aid.

@Valerian

Related, I’m apparently an attention whore for being the actual subject of my avatar?

Yes, but if you used another picture you’d be a liar instead, because everything feminists – and women especially – do is wrong in some way.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

He asked me how I felt, so I said awkward and scared. Then he asked me if it would be the same if he were a girl

You told him you felt scared because of how he was behaving towards you and his response was to ask you follow-up questions? That is not okay in any circumstance, whether he was doing a mock study for a psych class or just screwing around because he’s a douchebag. Someone tells you that you’ve frightened them, you apologize and try to make amends. Being human 101.

contrapangloss
7 years ago

Auggz, I’ve had similar things happen. The faculty have to get permission, but they sometimes assign projects to students… and they can be annoying.

He could be legit, or he could be a jerk, or he could be a jerk who is in the class and is using it as a fine excuse be be obnoxious.

I’ve had a mystery stat 273 lad with a survey about video-games and course loads then a random sociology 101 lass who sat down at my tiny table while I was eating/finishing up stuff, said nothing for 15 minutes, then asked me what I felt about it.

My animal behavior class also did something like it, but slightly less awkward. We just had to walk into the cafeteria twice at different assigned times and quickly jot down the no. of people at each table, and the sex ratio of each table. No stalking up on people required.

I still felt a bit weird about it, though.

vaiyt
7 years ago

I guess patriarchy is just too comfortable an armchair to get out of. It excuses your failures, protects you from responsibility and makes you feel good, pure and innocent – helpless at the mercy of all the male privilege ramming its way relentlessly up your feminine innocence. You love that fantasy, huh?

Geez, if you’re going to present the old and tired bootstraps argument, try not to copy racist rhetoric, it just makes you look like a douchebag.

misery
misery
7 years ago

That logo with international upside down so you have trouble reading it is hilarious. Why is everything MRA’s create almost comically amateurish?

Falconer
7 years ago

Now I’m two toddlers in a box.

cloudiah
7 years ago

AV: AVFM activists may be attending at the police station in an attempt to gather information about this very serious allegation against MHRAs. I would like to interview this alleged victim.

Sorry to repeat it, but this is just stunning. Especially now that another article has published her name. Attila (it’s fine to use his name, he used it to comment) is admitting that he personally wants to harass and intimidate a woman who merely reported to the police that she was assaulted. She hasn’t even accused MRAs of doing it!

Just when you think they can’t sink any lower, they bring out the backhoe and keep digging.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Why is everything MRA’s create almost comically amateurish?

Penis privilege. Because a dongle between the legs = Instant Genius, don’tcha know? So they can’t be arsed to use the larger of their two heads, which in any case is already occupied…in plugging up their arses.

katz
7 years ago

Box of babies!

cloudiah
7 years ago

Now I’m two toddlers in a box.

Toddlers and cats share many similarities.

Luzbelitx
7 years ago

I just came here to say I’m a big evil grin in the dark.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Oh barf, Paul Elam’s throwing his two cents into the assault on the Queen’s University student. And of course, according to Elam she probably made the whole thing up and just wants attention:

Maybe she is waiting for a hundred likes on her pic to get closure.

Also, apparently, David’s name is an adjective:

This is the same scummy, Futrellian fantasy fiction spin game cooked up by the University of Toronto Student’s Union after their members and followers acted out violently against police and against people trying to attend Dr. Warren Farrell’s lecture on the boy crisis in Toronto in November of 2012.

They reeled out yarn after yarn about scared girls and alleged threats coming from MHRAs against feminists for just speaking their views.

Of course, MRAs never ever ever threaten violence. They just wanna hang around the police on the off chance they’ll see the victim so they can “interview” her.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

And I’m so pissed about all this bullshit I forgot the link:


http://www.donotlink.com/fKZ

Ooh! Babies in a box! So much better than MRAs! Awwww! They look like their having so much fun with that box!

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

dunbe | March 28, 2014 at 12:36 am

Its definitely easier for men to date other men than women. Anyone man who tries both will see who extreme that difference is.

…and you’ve actually spoken to, y’know, bi men, and asked them how that went?

Because these hypotheticals are actually real people, not just a mental exercise for you. And they actually have real-world experience in these things you talk about.

And… and mostly, you look like you’re full of shit, I tell you what.

Octo
Octo
7 years ago

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

Evo Psycho, like our troll employs here, is such a pile of bullshit. I mean, it may well be that there are statistical (!) behavioural differences between men and women that came about due to evolutionary factors. But not a single *concrete statement* the evo psycho crowd makes can actually be proven! It’s all speculation. Like “You know, this would make sense in evolutionary competition” or “Maybe this behaviour gave people an evolutionary advantage”… but even if those considerations are logical, that doesn’t mean they’re true. Just because an evolutionary benefit is conceivable, doesn’t mean it actually exists!

And that of course is the benign interpretation of Evo Psycho. In reality, many of those speculations don’t even make sense, and in the end the whole thing is just used as an ideological talking point. But even when it isn’t, the point remains none of their statements can actually be proven!

Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago

By definition, a conspiracy involves a conscious, deliberate effort. There is no male conspiracy to consciously, deliberately keep men up and women down. But there are social and economical structures and cultural norms, all things we were socialized with and have to a large degree internalized. Learn the difference between conspiracy and culture!

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Any good, rigorous Ev-Psych theory has to start with the question ‘is this a behavior observed in humans around the globe in cultures that are wildly different, or is there evidence that this a mutable behavior?’

Because any time anybody can point to a single example of a culture that differs, that doesn’t do things the way you’ve said is innate, then your just-so reason why it’s that way turns out to be fairly obvious garbage.

See also: gender roles, and how they aren’t actually the same in every culture on earth. See also: pink, not always a girl color. See also: just about every-fucking-thing that Psychology Today ever said on the subject, basically.

Catalpa
Catalpa
7 years ago

I suspect that the ‘women are pickier than men!’ impression is due to the (bullshit) conditioning of men to be the pursuers and women to be the passive pursued party.

Since under this model, men are never/rarely approached by people who are undesirable to them (or approached at all), they only speak with and pay attention to the women who they do find attractive.

Women, on the other hand, are expected to wait for people to approach them and therefore their filtering mechanism is active rather than passive, because they have to reject people as they come, instead of simply not approaching them in the first place.

Therefore people come under the impression that, since men never/rarely have to actually say “no”, and women do, women are pickier.

Of course this isn’t the only factor in this equation, since women have to worry about a higher level of assault from potential partners among other things. But I think that if we didn’t have all these damn gender expectations, the amount of ‘pickiness’ on each side would be significantly more equal.

barrakuduh
7 years ago

Wow, dunbe. That creepy, completely uncalled-for rape metaphor really added to your whole super-intellectual thesis of heavily-supported scientific super-science. I can see you are an individual who is determined to be taken very seriously.

…But seriously, dunbe’s utter grossness aside, if I had a nickel for every “Men have it SOOOO much harder than women! Really, we do! So stop trying to change things!” theory authored by Some Dude on the Internet…

And ditto Buttercup Q. Skullpants about the “Women are averagely more selective” bullcrap. I’m so sick of hearing that from the same people who think I have no worth as a human being unless I’m young, complacent, and look like a supermodel.

barrakuduh
7 years ago

Yes, this “alleged victim” at Queen’s is totes making it up.
These, on the other hand, were legit as fuck.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

This is the same scummy, Futrellian fantasy fiction spin game cooked up by the University of Toronto Student’s Union after their members and followers acted out violently against police and against people trying to attend Dr. Warren Farrell’s lecture on the boy crisis in Toronto in November of 2012.

“Futrellian fiction”? Bwahahahaha! This from a guy who believes in the Farrellian fiction of the so-called “boy crisis”, which is nothing more than the brain-poopings of a bunch of middle-aged men jumping up and down claiming they wuz discriminated against every time a teacher told them to sit down, shut up and learn something. Jesus H. Christ, what a bucket of beer-vomit.

dunbe
dunbe
7 years ago

Lol you guys are so pathetic.

Here’s a little favorite of mine:

Bye 😉

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

OMG, he says… “Bye”

THE UNIVERSE LOVES ME

(new trailer for Michael Bay’s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is released)

THE UNIVERSE HATES ME

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Wow, what a half-assed flounce. But then again, it did come from a lazy mansplainer, so…

1/10

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Aw, I was hoping for a meltdown. He’ll be back.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Oh dunbe, you’re the one arguing half-baked evo-psych just-so stories without any evidence to back it up. You’rethe one throwing around thinly-veiled rape analogies.

In short, looks like you’re the pathetic one.

By the way:

So either start attacking the route cause for the disparities or learn to live with the accusation that you want to maintain them.

“Attacking the route.” The route. Beating up on roads? Not very effective. Not very effective at all.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Kittehs

The true image of LBT

YOU FOOL! DON’T UNCOVER MY SECRET IDENTITY! I want the rest of the commentariat to stay amusing, and they won’t be if their brains melt out their ears due to the power of my visage!

RE: dunbe

Its definitely easier for men to date other men than women.

Are you a queer man, sir? If so, I want to know where you live, so I can fucking move there. Oh look, you’re gone. HUZZAH!

RE: House Mouse Queen

Hey dunbe, take Farrell’s advice and go gay.

Hell no! We don’t want him!

RE: Falconer

Honestly, we can’t tell unless we open the box and collapse the wave function.

No way! I know what that means! When we open the box, we have a 50% chance my husband will be dead! And I mean dead-dead, not his current simultaneous state of being!

Yeah, but it’s a really deep array of green geometric shapes. Give me a blue book and I can fill it with the reasons why it’s so deep.

Don’t look too deep, or YOU WILL NEVER ESCAPE.

Now I’m two toddlers in a box.

I KNEW IT.

RE: Howard Bannister

…and you’ve actually spoken to, y’know, bi men, and asked them how that went?

I’m sure my husband would be just THRILLED to answer questions. You know, being raised in Missi-fuckin’-ssippi and all. It was just HEAVEN for queers there, let me tell ya.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

That video didn’t work for me, but if it’s what I think it is, it’s a cover of Short Dick Man, a song popular for five minutes c. 1993. How does that prove anything?

Look, I can post videos about body part preferences too!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

So Judgy Bitch thinks you can get the police to not prosecute you by tweeting them wiki links, and now this Attilla guy thinks that the cops are going to let him interview assault victims just because he demands it? I figured that their comical incompetence was limited to poster-and-slogan-making, but now I’m starting to wonder how they manage to tie their own shoelaces and interact with people in authority enough to get ID. Can you imagine these people at the DMV?