Categories
a woman is always to blame antifeminism evil sexy ladies go read this homophobia men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA rape culture the myth of warren farrell

Check out the “Farrell’s Follies” series of posts on Reddit

Warren Farrell: Full of terrible ideas
Warren Farrell: His ideas are as bad as that logo

Today, just a recommendation: if you’d like to learn more about the wrongheaded and often quite bewildering opinions of Men’s Rights grandpappy Warren Farrell, take a look at the excellent Farrell’s Follies series now being posted on the AgainstMensRights subreddit. The Redditor known as feminista_throwaway has been systematically going through Farrell’s Myth of Male Power and looking in detail at Farrell’s positions on such issues as “Date Fraud,” why it’s supposedly easier to be a gay man than a straight man, why patriarchy is women’s fault, and how men and women don’t really love each other. There’s a guide to the whole series here.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

221 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
trans_commie
7 years ago

Our discussions about butts, bras, and fashion are more intelligent and nuanced than anything MRAs say.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Nope nope nope, not reading those comments.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

J.J, I thought your icon was a giraffe this whole time. Sure shows me!

trans_commie
7 years ago

LBT is an array of green geometric shapes.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Actually, my TRUE icon is so monstrous to behold, your mind can not perceive it. To protect yourself from madness, you are forced to construe my image as a randomized green splotch!

IT’S TRUE I TELL YOU

trans_commie
7 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

I love your new avatar! :3

kittehserf
7 years ago

J.J, I thought your icon was a giraffe this whole time. Sure shows me!

One can be both, of course.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Trans_commie, Thanks!

All this gravatar talk was the kick in the pants I needed to choose a picture. Now I am a Japanese woman who kills all men that scorn me. Look out misters! Mua ha ha!

Fibinachi
7 years ago

After I cried a bit finding out, I’ve come to accept my new reality. How’s you, fellow bitter ugly lesbian who will never find happiness?

I… I’m confused. So very confused. Somewhere inbetween going to bed and working on my time machine project, I apparently turned into a bitter ugly lesbian.

Damn that slippery masculinity of mine! It just keeps falling behind the couch.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@kittehs, “Who’s a cute little lion? Are you a cute little lion?”

kittehserf
7 years ago

cloudiah, yep! 😀

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Well, I guess one bonus is that I’ve just used my new found lesbian emotional hamster wheel to power up up my bitter irrational ugly herdmind to…. shit-test.. the… unlogic of Farrel’s fallacies because I… erh… uhm… something something with the words “womyn”. I’m not good at pretend-foolishness of the MRA nature.

Observe! I now know why women don’t love men and men don’t love women! THE ANSWER IS GEARS.

When the man who has mastered protecting meets the innocent woman, he “falls in love” because her innocence allows a reunion with the self that got lost in the process of coping with complexity. Although he appears to have fallen in love with her, he really falls in love with his own lost innocence. He loved that innocent self because his innocence allowed him to see his soul directly, the way we see mountains in a land without smog.

You see, all men are narcissist who love only themselves, perceiving the rest of the world as a ticking clockwork of intricate design, all soulless gears and automatons carrying out simple stimulus response triggers. When a man then finds a woman who hasn’t yet been claimed by some other male artificer, he sees the part of himself that he really likes, and so falls in love with himself (nicely channeled into the blank slate that is the woman with no soul or personality he is superimposing all his desires unto)

The more innocent – or traditional – the woman, the more she seeks the man who can handle complexity. It is exactly his ability to handle complexity that allows her to retain her innocence. (The protector literally protects her innocence.) But in the process of dealing with the shadow side of life, he distances himself from his own spirituality, thus decreasing her love for him even as she increases her dependence on him.

Now, the more finely and intricately wrought this female-shaped automaton is, that is, the more the gears in her head click in a simple mechanical motion not tarried by array specks of personality, thought, desire or knowledge, the more this gearhead man can fall in love with her, because he can more successful fall more in love with himself, as, with less personality in the women, it’s easier to fill out all the blank space behind her eyes with his own overcompensating ego.

Conversely he becomes spiritually dependent on her and loves her more even as he respects her less. He respects the part of himself that can master complexity but hates the part of himself that had to compromise.

Of course, a blank mechanioid dereft of personality, life, vim and will is really just a thing that you’re filling up with yourself and sometimes also your penis, so, ashamed with his constant masturbatory mental gymnastics inside this hollowed out thing he pretends is a partner, any man, all men, every man on planet Earth EVERYWHERE at all times hates himself and the person he has become, because he is really only a solipsistic clockmaker raging inside the confines of his own head or as Buttercup Q. Skull pants put it here in a much neater way.

When women are seen as the innocent ones, they become worshiped by men almost religiously. Which is not coincidental. The appeal of religion, as with the “innocent” woman, lies in part in how it allows us to be in touch with our simpler spirit – or spirituality. In how it gives us temporary relief from life’s complexities. But don’t women fall in love with men they respect? We call it love. But she has not really “fallen in love,” she has “fallen in respect.”

Now seeing as women are just machines who can’t think or act or feel or have agency or make decisions, but they are still the nexus upon which the world turns and if that makes your head hurt just relax and think of bees, that means men spend a lot of time worshiping innocent women, so they worship the idols they have built of themselves inside their headcases, which means they’re worshiping themselves…

So the Myth of Male Power is a towering edifice erected in the monumental honor of Warren Farrels fundamental inability to think of other people as independently sentient, like some kind of crass tortured poet all over come with the awe of the world and his own special place in it, seeing as everyone else is a meandering sheeple, watching the world nicely tick while he stares into the mirror of other people’s eyes just to see himself.

GEARS GEARS GEARS.
————-
Bloody hell, that’s depressing when you read all of it. I guess I hoped it’d at least be scholarly, in a way.

Oh well. I’m off to enjoy some… lesbianism… I guess? Or something. Probably ice cream.

katz
7 years ago

Gotta say, if men don’t love women because they only love themselves, and women don’t love men because they respect them instead, then that makes women sound a whole lot better.

Robert
Robert
7 years ago

To get a little meta here – I think part of the difficulty Farrell, et alia, have is modeling. We all have models of the universe in our minds. That allows us to function on a day to day basis. If we can, when new information comes along that contradicts our model we change the model. If we can’t, we reject the new information and keep the model. Eventually, the amount of new information being rejected reaches a certain point. After that, we can either retreat into fabulism or reject the model. The MRAs, in general, are fabulists in this sense. They have constructed elaborate support systems for the beliefs that reality does not support.

This is essentially a religious experience for them.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

AVfMers (John Hembling, typhonblue, GWW, Attila Vinczer) and Misters (/u/edtastic) are all over the comments, arguing that (a) she’s obviously lying and (b) she probably brought it on herself since she’s a feminist.

What a bunch of shitheads. I was at Queen’s 25 years ago. The place was a rape-culture hellhole even then, and that was before the MRBM was even heard of. Fuck, most of the frosh-week chants we learned were cram-jammed with rapey shit. I was so angry after going through initiation…I felt violated because I’d been co-opted by THAT. It made meeting my Gael Group seem so not worth it. And I heard so many horror stories just that one week alone that I only visited each of the three campus pubs once in my entire four years there. That’s how afraid I was of getting drunk and taken advantage of.

Nice to know so little has changed in all that time. Why did I volunteer at the Women’s Centre, again?

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

TL; DR: I can’t believe I STILL have to protest this goddamn motherfucking shit.

dunbe
dunbe
7 years ago

Its definitely easier for men to date other men than women. Anyone man who tries both will see who extreme that difference is.
This is not any one side’s fault but simply a dynamic that emerged from various factors. Individuals can do very little to change it but all straight and to some extent bisexual people are affected by it in every aspect of their lives that somehow relates to the other sex. In particular the disparity in careers and earnings are one of the symptoms of this imbalance.

The reason for fewer women rising to the professional elite is not because they don’t have the capability but it’s also not because they’re unfairly prevented from doing so. It’s simply because they don’t have the same incentive to do so. The pressure to earn and perform in that particular way is just lower on women than it is on men. And that imbalance produces exactly the distribution in success we see: more men at the top and more men at the bottom.

If you really want to change that (assuming it’s possible), then the only way is to attack the cause which is the disparity in pressure to perform. What is not going to work is demanding men change it. They are just as powerless to do so as women. Otherwise they’d have done so long ago since the immediate benefit of equality is clearly much greater for men.

So either start attacking the route cause for the disparities or learn to live with the accusation that you want to maintain them. Ignorance is not an excuse anymore just as blaming some mythical male conspiracy for everything.

I presume this will go down as well as telling a group of creationists that the facts don’t support their worldview. Who needs facts when you have a worldview that makes you feel good about yourselves….

trans_commie
7 years ago

The reason for fewer women rising to the professional elite is not because they don’t have the capability but it’s also not because they’re unfairly prevented from doing so. It’s simply because they don’t have the same incentive to do so. The pressure to earn and perform in that particular way is just lower on women than it is on men.

Just what do you believe is the cause of the extra pressure on men? And why do women lack that incentive men have?

Ignorance is not an excuse anymore just as blaming some mythical male conspiracy for everything.

Literally no one here believes that patriarchy is centered around male conspiracy.

katz
7 years ago

I see the U.S.S. Make Shit Up has come into harbor.

And that imbalance produces exactly the distribution in success we see: more men at the top and more men at the bottom.

Thank you for playing!

kittehserf
7 years ago

::wild applause for Fibinachi::

GEARS

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

…I can’t believe you. All of you. You deceitful traitors. I believed in all of you, but you turned out not to actually be geometric shapes, cartoon cats, shirtless Inigo Montoya or anime ghost girl?

Padded bras and makeup are already bad enough. But THIS just goes too far!

kittehserf
7 years ago

I deny it!

I never claimed Mr K was Inigo Montoya!

katz
7 years ago

Of course, if we all used photos of ourselves, it would be because we wanted attention.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@dunbe, What do you believe is the mechanism behind this?

dunbe
dunbe
7 years ago

“Just what do you believe is the cause of the extra pressure on men?”

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

“And why do women lack that incentive men have?”

Precisely because of that difference in pressure. Earning a lot of money and/or rising high in a career is very hard and by definition can only be accomplished by a minority. Nobody would do that unless they had a lot of reasons to do so.

“Literally no one here believes that patriarchy is centered around male conspiracy.”

Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@dunbe, Can you link to the scholarly or other resources on the term “patriarchy” that inform your assumptions?

I’m going to sleep, but if you could answer my question (above) too, that would be great.

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

…I just can’t stay mad at you guys. Let’s get together for a furrinati concert.

trans_commie
7 years ago

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

Oh, so you’re one of those people. *sigh* Shouldn’t have asked.

Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago.

Yes, it benefits men at the expense of women and men were most likely the ones who started it (for lack of better words), but it’s not universally maintained by men deliberately conspiring to oppress women. There are many things that keep patriarchy alive, most of which have nothing to do with conspiracy.

katz
7 years ago

Precisely because of that difference in pressure. Earning a lot of money and/or rising high in a career is very hard and by definition can only be accomplished by a minority. Nobody would do that unless they had a lot of reasons to do so.

Well, obviously. Why would anyone want to earn a lot of money, prestige, and power unless they had to?

vaiyt
7 years ago

“Just what do you believe is the cause of the extra pressure on men?”

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

Geez, and where do you think those ideas of yours come FROM? Do you think they spring out from the ether? From your choice of terms I’d bet you think it’s biological because blah blah pleistocene blah blah hunting blah blah bullshit. Don’t even bother.

dunbe
dunbe
7 years ago

“Oh, so you’re one of those people. *sigh* Shouldn’t have asked.”

And that’s where I stopped reading. For a moment I thought somebody might actually want to discuss these issues so I answered the initial questions. But, my prediction that the response would just be religious bigotry, came true after all. What a surprise.

I guess patriarchy is just too comfortable an armchair to get out of. It excuses your failures, protects you from responsibility and makes you feel good, pure and innocent – helpless at the mercy of all the male privilege ramming its way relentlessly up your feminine innocence. You love that fantasy, huh?

I’m the last person to judge people for their kinks but imposing it on others without their consent, is, well, kind of rapey. You people are just like those takeninhand idiots only you’re even more dishonest about it than they are.

BreakfastMan
BreakfastMan
7 years ago

@cloudiah: I would also like some citations on the whole “women are more picky than men!” myth, because as someone who has been around his sister while she was going through her teenage years, that has NOT been my experience.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Who is being an idiot this time?

I’m the last person to judge people for their kinks but imposing it on others without their consent, is, well, kind of rapey.

Welp, time for the regulars to pounce on this one.

trans_commie
7 years ago

And that’s where I stopped reading. For a moment I thought somebody might actually want to discuss these issues so I answered the initial questions. But, my prediction that the response would just be religious bigotry, came true after all. What a surprise.

I don’t care about arguing with people who center their gender analysis around some ridiculous mate selection theory. And I also don’t give a damn about people who accuse the other side of being “religious.” Your insults are so lazy.

I guess patriarchy is just too comfortable an armchair to get out of. It excuses your failures, protects you from responsibility and makes you feel good, pure and innocent – helpless at the mercy of all the male privilege ramming its way relentlessly up your feminine innocence. You love that fantasy, huh?

Speaking of armchairs, you sure seem to be on one right now.

I’m the last person to judge people for their kinks but imposing it on others without their consent, is, well, kind of rapey. You people are just like those takeninhand idiots only you’re even more dishonest about it than they are.

It looks like you’re one of those people who thinks that someone’s kinks can be easily discerned via an understanding of that person’s personality and beliefs. I’m surprised you even know what “kink” means.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Precisely because of that difference in pressure. Earning a lot of money and/or rising high in a career is very hard and by definition can only be accomplished by a minority. Nobody would do that unless they had a lot of reasons to do so.

So, genius, how do you explain all the men in low-paid jobs, or no jobs at all, who somehow or another have partners?

I wouldn’t touch a man who thought money and socio-economic status where what really mattered in romantic relationships. For that matter I wouldn’t touch a man who used terms like “mate selection” when talking about people.

Has it ever occurred to you that personality matters to women, and that the whole bullshit you’re trotting out is a handy excuse for men with toxic attitudes?

katz
7 years ago

But, my prediction that the response would just be religious bigotry, came true after all. What a surprise.

You had preconceived expectations about how we would response and you interpreted our actual responses as conforming to your expectations? That is indeed a shocker.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Oh, and I’ve emailed the Dark Lord about the troll referring to talking about patriarchy as some sort of rape kink.

katz
7 years ago

“How we would response.” I’m a doof.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Fi fie foo fie foom

The reason for fewer women rising to the professional elite is not because they don’t have the capability but it’s also not because they’re unfairly prevented from doing so. It’s simply because they don’t have the same incentive to do so. The pressure to earn and perform in that particular way is just lower on women than it is on men. And that imbalance produces exactly the distribution in success we see: more men at the top and more men at the bottom.

If you really want to change that (assuming it’s possible), then the only way is to attack the cause which is the disparity in pressure to perform. What is not going to work is demanding men change it. They are just as powerless to do so as women. Otherwise they’d have done so long ago since the immediate benefit of equality is clearly much greater for men.

I sense a dunbe who be dealing with doom

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

Foo fie fin faal
from “cause of disparity” to “men must earn to get a gal”

Precisely because of that difference in pressure. Earning a lot of money and/or rising high in a career is very hard and by definition can only be accomplished by a minority. Nobody would do that unless they had a lot of reasons to do so.

fan fine foo fom flom
of reasons many, but “Women” justify it with one

Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago.

Flip flap fee fuu fie
I do believe that you believe that we’ve all bought a lie

Patriarchy is a system supposedly set up by men, that benefits men at the expense of women. If you didn’t believe that that constitutes a male conspiracy then perhaps you should rename it to something gender neutral. But I don’t believe that you don’t believe it’s a male conspiracy, otherwise you’d have rejected the term long ago.

hip hap sip sap dap dip
preconcieved notions setting traps is pretty hip

I guess patriarchy is just too comfortable an armchair to get out of. It excuses your failures, protects you from responsibility and makes you feel good, pure and innocent – helpless at the mercy of all the male privilege ramming its way relentlessly up your feminine innocence. You love that fantasy, huh?

grin groan giggle grasp
with our victim complex dunbe has taken us to task
sigh, sad, smile slow
how come who are so low still get a beau?

I’m the last person to judge people for their kinks but imposing it on others without their consent, is, well, kind of rapey. You people are just like those takeninhand idiots only you’re even more dishonest about it than they are.

Blink, twitch, ponder, wonder, blink again
from “pressures” to “promotions” to “platitudes” to “pleasures”
( “your religious delusions is but a kink!”, bit of a strain )

Did you have a point that wasn’t mere markers of odd thoughts by any measures?

Fibinachi
7 years ago

“how come who are so low still get a beau?”

is obviously

“How come men so low still have a beau?”

The importance of revisions, thus demonstrated.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Dumbe, stop trying to equate us with creationists for not taking you seriously, The theory of evolution is testable and falsifiable. It has been rigorously tested and passed those tests. It hasn’t been falsified.
What you are spouting is some evo psych nonsense. It isn’t testable and falsifiable. It is entirely based on pseudo-intellectual drivel and confirmation bias. Therefore, being skeptical of your claims is not one bit like being a young earth creationist.
You fail. Try harder next time.

House Mouse Queen
7 years ago

The difference in mate selection behavior between men and women as it manifests itself collectively. Women are averagely more selective which puts more pressure on men to out compete other men in the areas where that is measured, those being typically earnings and career status.

Butts. Oppressive female butts.

Isn’t it cute how women rule the whole world with their butts?

Hey dunbe, take Farrell’s advice and go gay. You get 2 WHOLE HOURS of sex that way. It sure beats having to deal with all that mate selection. All men have to do is go gay and all their problems fade away!

I made a rhyme.

House Mouse Queen
7 years ago

I’m not a virgin of the blockquote monster anymore!

katz
7 years ago

Isn’t it cute how women rule the whole world with their butts?

*Beyonce voice* “Who’ll run the world? Butts!”

kittehserf
7 years ago

Is going gay like going Galt, only more fun?

Should it be called going gaylt?

kittehserf
7 years ago

*Beyonce voice* “Who’ll run the world? Butts!”

*Aretha voice* “R.A.S.S.P.E.C.T.”

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

The logic and reasoning implied to deny the patriarchy and to present men in power as the really opressed ones is the same as if you for example try to argue that Josep Fritzl, a man who kept his own daughter captive for 24 years and had several children with her was the one who was opressed and his daughter was priviledged. Afterall his daughter was safe in that cellar and obviously she got provided with food and water and some basic care to keep her alive, but really she was the one in power this whole time and poor Josep was her victim.
Now this case is extreme, but it perfectly illustrates what MRA’s really believe in.