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a voice for men a woman is always to blame antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? artistry attention seeking cupcake evil sexy ladies evil single moms evil women men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA paul elam the poster revolution has begun

A Voice for Men fans have appropriated logos of real anti-violence organizations for new “Don’t Be That Girl” postering campaign

From @im_adam_barrett on Twitter
From @im_adam_barrett on Twitter

Here we go again. Like small children who have just discovered the power of the tantrum, the terrible people at A Voice for Men seem to have realized that the only reliable way for them to get the attention of the world is to act like complete assholes in public.  And so some fans of AVFM have decided to bring back the “Don’t Be That Girl” campaign — you know, the witless and misogynistic “parody” of the successful Canadian “Don’t Be That Guy” rape awareness campaign. Now they’re postering in Halifax.

But there’s one difference: this time they’ve put the logos of the real sponsors of the real “Don’t Be That Guy” rape awareness project on their phony posters. (You can see the whole list by downloading one of the pdfs of the real posters on this page.)

So far, two of the organizations listed on their phony posters – the Bryony House shelter for victims of domestic violence and the Halifax Police Department – have made very clear that their logos are being used without permission.

https://twitter.com/BryonyHouse/status/448148862193389568

It’s a pretty safe bet that the other organizations whose logos were appropriated feel similarly.

I’d like to encourage anyone who can afford it to follow up on a suggestion from Cloudiah in the comments and donate to Bryony House so that some good can come out of all this.

Now, I’m no expert on Canadian law, but it seems rather unlikely to me that it’s legal to simply stick some organization’s logo on something and pretend that they have endorsed it. Especially when that organization is the police.

Apparently some MRAs disagree with me on that:

https://twitter.com/AVoiceForMen/status/448225043026149376

“Your consent is not required” seems to be the operating assumption of a lot of those drawn to the Men’s Rights movement.

In later tweets, Elam claims that using the logos is legal because of “fair use,” which is not actually a term used in Canadian law, and promises that the “[p]osters will continue, cupcake.”

I guess we will see. Here are several more photos of the posters. There’s more discussion of this in the AgainstMensRights subreddit.

EDITED TO ADD: Elam has now responded to the critics, and promises to bankroll any legal challenges against the posterers. It’s pretty clear that he doesn’t understand why the logos are a problem.

EDIT/CORRECTION: It’s not completely clear that this postering campaign originated with AVFM. It’s pretty clear, though, that it’s supported by AVFM, and that those involved in it are supporters of AVFM. I’ve made a few changes to the headline and first graf to reflect this.

 

 

 

 

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moldybrehd
10 years ago

@Unimaginative I kinda meant that I had no actual statistics on why, but yeah, all the points you mentioned ran through my head, along with very decent sex education in our schools (most Canadian kids know exactly how babies are made).

tinyorc
10 years ago

If it were so. Using physical violence against children for punishment has long been generally accepted and still is legal in many places (only illegal in 34 countries).

On a slightly tangential note, I had a long fraught debate with a group of my liberal, international, educated friends on this subject the other night. I was totally gobsmacked to discover that out of our (mixed gender) group, it was only me and one other woman (who is a kindergarten teacher) who think that it absolutely 100% not acceptable to raise your hand to a child ever under any circumstances. Like EVER.

Everyone else, men and women, was arguing for varying degrees of “Oh a light smack is ok”, “Yeah, it’s fine as long as you don’t hit them in the face or anything”, “I mean, it has to hurt otherwise they don’t get the message but it shouldn’t leave a mark” and I was like HOLY HELL THIS IS DISGUSTING CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELVES ARUGING ABOUT HOW HARD YOU SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HIT A CHILD. And even then they couldn’t agree amongst themselves, which is terrifying, because “how hard” is so bloody subjective that it would be impossible to legislate for this mythical perfect amount violence you can inflict on a child.

And then of course, the “But it works!” argument came up over and over again. Like yeah, of course it works. Just because terrorising a kid with violence makes them sit down and shut up when you say so doesn’t mean it’s RIGHT AND AAAAGGHHHH … *heavy breathing*

Bina
10 years ago

It’s a hell of a lot more common, auggz – and a lot of it comes from men, something MRAs never acknowledge.

This. Plus, when a baby is dumped it only happens once, and the baby is thereafter rescued and placed for adoption, usually with the best possible home. The momentary harm done by dumping is undone when the baby is rescued and adopted. Child abuse, on the other hand, tends to be an ongoing situation that leaves deep emotional scars. And good luck undoing that.

Sorry I wasn’t clear earlier; I hadn’t finished my morning tea, and my brain wasn’t in full gear!

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 years ago

That said, I doubt the Halifax Police Department consulted Wikipedia at all when this came to light. I think they probably consulted an actual lawyer.

That’s what comes of living your entire life inside the computer. You start to believe Wikipedia trumps everything, a few minutes of Googling can turn you into an expert on any subject, and activism can be achieved through cowardly frat-boy pranks. They’re more interested in getting attaboys and high-fives from the other dudebros than actually changing society’s perceptions. As far as MRAs are concerned, other people don’t really exist.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
10 years ago

I had a facebook friend (someone who I was friends with as a child) recently post an image saying something like “My parents spanked me as a child, as a consequence I suffer from a condition known as ‘respect for others'”.

I kind of wanted to be like “respect for others, except for my children, who I can hit whenever I want”.

I also thought it was extra disturbing considering that it was an open secret in the neighborhood that her older brother, who had a mental illness, was being regularly beaten by their father with a belt. But I guess he “turned out ok” so no harm no foul?

Bina
10 years ago

I don’t…get the last one. Are they telling women not to be prostitutes in spite of the fact that there’s a demand and they’ll make money?

Do they even have a *reason* to be anti-prostitution? Apparently the fact that it’s a job women do is enough to encourage women to stop? And isn’t trafficking–involuntary prostitution–a huge problem?

So, let me get this straight, “Women, stop being kidnapped and raped because that’s a woman’s job and you shouldn’t for inexplicable reasons!”

I think that what really gets them steamed is that these women (actually, girls, let’s be honest, because these guys often like ’em under-age) have the temerity to ask for money instead of just taking their shit for free. And because it hurts their widdle feelings that a lot of the girls out there actually are pimped and trafficked, meaning they’re not in this out of a “natural” desire to serve the menz. They’re in it because of poverty and duress, and these guys can’t stand being reminded that that is, in fact, a powerless place for a woman to be. They want to have the illusion that women enjoy unlimited power over men by way of what’s between their legs; Warren Farrell sez so, does he not? So the idea of a woman not only having that “power” but making money off it, even if she’s far from independent (let alone powerful) as a result, just makes them furious. Women are supposed to be ultra-dependent, ultra-submissive, always-available sex dispensers with no personal wants or needs.

Kim
Kim
10 years ago

The original posters were developed by Sexual Assault Voices of Edmonton (SAVE) and were sponsored by those groups. The posters are open source; but, the creators ask that their work be recognized and their logos be used in addition to any other entities that might wish to use the posters.

That being said, this next batch of posters is deplorable. It is telling that the theme linking all the posters is the vilification of women, an attempt to assert gender symmetry in crime, and a wilfully ignorant and decontextualized representation of women’s criminality.

Nova
Nova
10 years ago

@Dvärghundspossen: There are ways to decriminalize sex work while also protecting those who work in the industry and fighting sex trafficking as well. The strip club industry already has a good framework in a lot of states and cities that can be expanded.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Bina – I’d read it differently. I don’t think these guys give a flying fuck about being reminded women and girls are enslaved and trafficked. They might be angry at the reminder that women don’t have the power they pretend we do, but I think at the same time they’d be more than happy to know they were raping a sex worker. If anything, trafficked sex workers would probably appeal to them most of all, because they really are as powerless as MRAs want all women to be.

The poster seemed to me to be angry about a woman choosing sex work – though I’d be dubious about the idea that many working on the street are in a good situation; it’s one of the most dangerous ways to do it, iirc (hookergal, if you’re reading, could you correct/confim that?)

It’s always women’s choice that angers this lot. We can choose to say no, we can choose to say yes – and we’re likely to choose someone else.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Sigh … I so wish I could bring one of those kitties home. Not that we’re in a position to have a kitten anyway, but oh, I’m aching for another cat these days!

vaiyt
10 years ago

“My parents spanked me as a child, as a consequence I suffer from a condition known as ‘respect for others’”.

The only thing my father taught me in the few times he hit me, is that he could hurt me when he’s angry. Nothing more.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 years ago

If I’ve learned nothing else today, it’s that you can’t spell “posterior” without “poster”.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago
Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

“Halifax is breaking Canadian and international law by discriminating according to gender with its hateful one-sided poster campaign and then threaten (sic) legal actions to silence dissenters,” a posting on the Men’s Rights Halifax website said Wednesday.

L-O-fucking-L.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
10 years ago

@Viscaria, I know, right? Goofballs.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
10 years ago

Tinyorc, I have a few friends who are totally in your camp. I’m not entirely sure where I am, so it’s probably just as well that I’m not considering finding someone to create a legion of tiny people.

My parents only ever spanked me three times. I remember exactly why, and when, for all three. In each case, it was because I was doing something that could have legitimately gotten me killed under the wrong circumstances AND they weren’t able to catch my attention by just saying my name in the ‘no nonsense parent voice’.

I think under those circumstances, what they did was perfectly acceptable. One swat, pretty light, but a hell of a startle, followed immediately by them getting down at my level, and telling me EXACTLY why what I was doing was bad.

If I had been spanked more than just those three times, I’d bet it would have been way less effective. Also, if they had legitimately hurt, and not just been startling, I don’t think it would have worked as well. At least, the whole “We only did this because we love you and don’t want you to be hurt” start to each “Why ____ was a bad move” lecture would have seemed a bit… dissonant.

Bina
10 years ago

“My parents spanked me as a child, as a consequence I suffer from a condition known as ‘respect for others’”.

Yeah, well, my parents spanked me, too. And I respect others. But the latter is not a consequence of the former. In fact, it’s a strange coincidence that I still respect my folks in spite of their having spanked me, because it showed me exactly how prone to flying off the handle/lacking in better ideas adults could be. And how they could somehow excuse their own lack of patience…as “discipline”.

Long story short: That Facebook meme is trite and stupid, and it’s time to replace it with something better.

Bina
10 years ago

“Halifax is breaking Canadian and international law by discriminating according to gender with its hateful one-sided poster campaign and then threaten (sic) legal actions to silence dissenters,” a posting on the Men’s Rights Halifax website said Wednesday.

Yeah, well…that’s just YOUR opinion, dude. And it don’t mean shit, considering that your side is advocating for a lot MORE one-sidedness, genderwise.

kittehserf
10 years ago

That spanking/respect thing is a meme? Not a very good one, then. I took it to mean “I learned how disrespectful spanking is, and respect my children enough not to do it to them.” If that’s the opposite of what it means, well …

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

Goofballs indeed. What a perfect description XD

Viscaria
Viscaria
10 years ago

There’s an X D emoticon!?! I am excited about these things all over again!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

I keep thinking what a gleeful moment it must have been for Paul, getting to tell a woman that her consent was not required. I’d even venture to suggest he may have gotten off on it.

So what I’m getting at, finally, is that it really doesn’t seem to be the case that women “offer” as soon as there’s demand. Why not attack the “demanders” instead?

Especially given that so many sex workers are either trafficked, being exploited, or have turned to it as a last resort. Whereas it’s hard to imagine a circumstance in which the person paying for sex isn’t participating voluntarity. Even when they’re hiring a sex worker who’s doing it freely and loves the job, the transaction wouldn’t happen without a patron, so…

Bina
10 years ago

MRAs are lousy at economics. Don’t they know that demand drives everything? And that without demand, the supply would just dry up? Sheesh.

Bina
10 years ago

That spanking/respect thing is a meme? Not a very good one, then. I took it to mean “I learned how disrespectful spanking is, and respect my children enough not to do it to them.” If that’s the opposite of what it means, well …

Yup, it’s a meme. I saw it on my own timeline, and oh, how sorely tempted I was to…DISCIPLINE the offending reposter.

katz
10 years ago

OK, Doad wants to call the tabby Skiffle and the gray one Glitch, but we are still undecided about the black one.