Christina Hoff Sommers: “If ‘bossy’ has to go because it is sexist, then shouldn’t we stop using male-vilifying terms like ‘mansplaining’ & ‘rape culture’?”

Ignorance knows no gender.

Hoff Summers should consider pulling her head out of her ass.

That hashtag has been taken over by wankers so very quickly.

So, we’re not allowed to point out when men are being sexists or when anyone (male or female) is propping up rapists because that’s vilification? That must make it wrong to call someone a “racist” too, because then you’re just a big old meaniepants.

The best supportive reply she got:

To intelligent of a question for feminists

Oh my.

The misters on r/mr were trying to start a campaign on Twitter for #kafala about a supposedly terrible labor practice. (I say supposedly just because (a) I haven’t looked into it at all, and (b) I generally don’t trust the misters, although they can accidentally be right about things on rare occasions.)

How many MRAs do you think are tweeting #kafala as opposed to #BanBossy, do you think? It might be hard to sort out which of the latter are MRAs, but I bet more of them have spent more time attacking a feminist campaign than they have supporting a pro-men campaign. At least that’s my hypothesis.

Oh, link to the #kafala post on r/mr:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/204exw/if_youre_on_twitter_please_help_us_get_kafala/

“Bossy” is often used in a way that targets women. “Mansplain” is only used for sexist, patronizing men, and “rape culture” is a concept that doesn’t rest on the assumption that all men are pro-rape. Even with the assumption that misandry exists, nothing Sommers said makes any sense.

Christina Hoff Summers just doesn’t like it when sexism is pointed out.

How is she a “feminist,” again?

Bell Hooks has started a #bossyandproud hashtag.

@trans_commie: Seconded.

@Willravel: True, though I’d go just a little further and say that it knows no bounds, period. Humans in general are flawed like that.

I generally don’t trust the misters, although they can accidentally be right about things on rare occasions.

My grandma used to say: “even a broken clock is right twice a day”

Bell Hooks has started a #bossyandproud hashtag.

Bell Hooks is on twitter??? *races off to log on & follow*

I didn’t know that rape culture vilified males. The only way that would work is if rape is an inherent part of manliness. But we all know that isn’t true, and only people who promote misandry would believe that… 😛

Seriously though, Christina Hoff Summers (and Warren Farrell, and Camille Paglia, and other misogynist “academics”) can fuck off.

Anti-feminist women flummox me. Do they honestly think life for women would be better if there had been no feminist movement? Eh, on second thought, I really don’t care what they think. I would like to know, however, if the misogynist cookies they receive are tastier than the average cookie.

Huh. And wouldn’t that make Hoff Sommers a misandrist, as well as a misogynist?

Apples and oranges. Rape culture and mansplaining are realities of life that serve to excuse some men’s illegal behavior at the expense of women’s safety and well-being, and to negate or demean women’s experiences and/or opinions. They don’t take on a positive meaning when applied to women like “bossy” is considered positive for men and boys, while it is negative when applied to women and girls for being too “uppity”.

I take it logic isn’t Christine’s strong suit.

Yes, “bossy” is used pejoratively for girls who display what, in boys, would be considered leadership qualities. Mansplaining is when a man tries to lecture a woman on a topic that is within her area of expertise (and sometimes outside of his own). I find it hard to imagine “womansplaining”, although that may be due to my limited experience.

Well, everyone beat me to the arguments I was going to make. Her “Rape Culture” whine strikes me as infuriatingly close to James Taranto’s “Prosecuting harassment is criminalizing male sexuality” argument.

But yeah, one more in a long line of libertarian “equalists”. “As long as the law says we’re all equal, then that’s all that matters! But don’t try and discrimination, that’s oppression. Redistribution is reverse racism. What you’re experiencing isn’t bigotry or sexism; it’s nature, or anecdotal, or you’re lying. You’re still not equal? You must just suck. Why are people mad at me for saying so?”

Speaking of Christina Hoff Sommers, I recently wrote a journal entry in which I criticized her oft-cited (by you know who) article about how rape culture doesn’t exist, and then I got a new troll in my comments. X_X

Anti-feminist women flummox me. Do they honestly think life for women would be better if there had been no feminist movement?

I suspect some anti-feminist women are that way because they are successful and have a “I’ve got mine. If you can’t too, it’s either because there is no problem and you’re just slack, or I am super awesome and an exception amongst women, and only super awesome people deserve nice things.”

So yes, without feminism she thinks *she* would be just fine, and who cares about anyone else?

Fauxminism…it’s a Hoff Sommers thing.

I’ve heard that the rules about foreign labor in most of the gulf states are terrible, so right now I am going to assume that this is probably a twice a day thing. Of course, I haven’t heard of a country that didn’t have problems with how they treat visiting workers, so this is one of those “ordinary claims, ordinary evidence cases” as far as I’m concerned.

Also, I am pretty sure that women get screwed over by labor laws as well.

If you want to be enraged, here’s a story about labor exploitation of mentally disabled men in the US:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/09/us/the-boys-in-the-bunkhouse.html?_r=0

(Trigger warning: ablism, abuse, exploitation.)

I’m actually glad to see some MRAs bringing attention to the #kafala tag. The working conditions for immigrant workers in the Middle East are absolutely appalling. One major Middle Eastern construction company, EMAAR, is notorious for depriving workers (even non-immigrant ones) of their basic rights and well-being.

When I was living in Dubai with my parents and my older siblings, we lived in an apartment overseeing a construction site in which all of the workers were toiling and suffering due to the intense heat combined with the work. So sometimes my siblings would go to the balcony and drop off water balloons just for fun, and the workers were laughing and smiling back at us. Their jobs under EMAAR were so miserable (even from a glance) that they welcomed anything that would temporarily distract them from their work.

On a happier note:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/07/lion-cub-triplets-meet-dad-oregon-zoo_n_4919438.html

Why aren’t MRAs fighting for male lion’s rights not to be annoyed by their children, huh?

I happen to love the word bossy, and I have no problem with it, period. So I’d never vote to “ban” it. Bless bell hooks for her tweet.

I also love the term mansplain, because it is so extremely specific. It perfectly captures an element of sexist culture. The first time my mom heard it, she laughed her ass off– she’d never heard it before but she totally GOT IT.

“Rape Culture” villifies our entire culture, and unfortunately captures it very well. I’ve never considered it directed specifically at men, even though men are primarily the rapists in our culture. But they certainly aren’t the only rape apologists, as so many fauxminists prove, and I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard teen girls and younger bash other females for daring to complain about sexism/harassment/assault/rape. Rape culture isn’t just about rapists– it’s about an entire system that allows for it, encourages it, protects the perpetrators, and attacks the victims. In short– Christine Hoff Sommers is an idiot, and, in an addendum, huh, she’s still around? Haven’t heard her name in years.

@theladyzombie
I was wondering about the same thing, but now you made want cookies. DAMN YOU, WOMAN

I got a new troll in my comments. X_X

I dislike your troll, but it looks like some other anonymous people have the troll covered.

I’m not certain if the troll is purposefully missing the point and is thus a thick troll, or is innocently missing the point in a wordy way, like I sometimes do.

Blargh.

Back on topic, why do certain people insist on using male and female as gender terms? Do they use male and female when referring directly to their own gender? I’ve been puzzled by this for a while.

I happen to love the word bossy, and I have no problem with it, period. So I’d never vote to “ban” it. Bless bell hooks for her tweet.

Same here. The word doesn’t bother me; what does, is that people think there is something wrong with a girl being it. It’s sexism, not individual words, that needs to be thrown out.

@trans_commie Do you have a tumblr, by any chance? I don’t have a dreamwidth account, and I’d like to be able to keep up with what you write.

Back on topic, why do certain people insist on using male and female as gender terms? Do they use male and female when referring directly to their own gender? I’ve been puzzled by this for a while.

Well, I’m trans and I have always felt comfortable calling myself female. Of course, sex and gender are conceptually different, but I have been able to use the words “male” and “female” in reference to gender without being confused when hearing those same words being used in reference to sex.

@Lids

My Tumblr is anarcho-womanist.tumblr.com, although I tend to write a bit more on my DreamWidth journal. I mostly reblog stuff on Tumblr and write very short entries of my own – my journal is where I write longer, more complex entries. You can also check out Feminist Borg, which is a new blog that has many different writers from the Man Boobz comment section. I go by “Ally” there. I haven’t written much there in a while, unfortunately, but I’m working on another entry relating to the theme of the month.stuff

@trans_commie Thanks! 🙂

Thanks for the clarification, trans_commie! I really, really appreciate it. When it comes to social things, I can be extremely clueless, and I’m really grateful that everyone here is so nice about it.

I think I just spend far too much time trying to figure out frameworks using definitions. Gender as a whole is extraordinarily confusing, and when terms leap out of their appropriate boxes, it messes with my head.

It just seems to me like using male/female as gender signifiers seems to imply there aren’t any other genders… which I know is patently false.

Totally my hangup, though, and not yours.

Thanks so much! 🙂

“Rape culture” isn’t a term specific to men. For example, Christina Hoff Summers built her career on defending and supporting rape culture.

Yeah I was thinking “rape culture” isn’t a gendered thing. I’ve encounter plenty of women (Sommers included) who perpetuate ideals of rape culture. Also I thought the “mansplaning” and “bossy” thing were a ridiculous comparison too, though I suppose somewhat less ridiculous than comparing it to rape culture.

Also yeah I agree with how shitty it is that people constantly feel the need to gender things.

I left a tweet using Bell’s hashtag. So does Hoff-Sommers want to get rid of ‘boss’ too? It’s etymology is 19th cent. Dutch ‘baas’, meaning master. I guess that word has to go too? She’s a bellend.

I hope she got some cookies, special snowflake that she is. Do cookies keep you warm at night?

Oh, and Tina Fey’s book “Bossypants” is awesome.

I have to admit that I am a little surprised that there are people crapping on this campaign. Not shocked, but a bit saddened I guess. I mean, I am raising a daughter and even though she doesn’t get the “don’t be bossy” message from me, I know she has gotten it plenty from other places. What is so terrible about people wanting to point out a problem and work to solve it? It is very clear that for some reason women do not hold as many leadership positions worldwide. There are multiple reasons for this, one of which is being addressed with this campaign.

I just have to keep telling myself that the only reason that these people are such loud-mouth, douche canoes is because they know they are steadily becoming the minority. I think it is also because they are angry that their efforts to demonize feminism has not stopped feminist ideas from permeating the wider culture.

Seeing Hoff Sommers crap on other women never surprises me. She seems to be one of those women who despises every other woman she encounters. No idea how people like that are created, but I am sure that they’re best avoided.

I’m sure Sommers has some female friends: namely, Camile Paglia, Katie Roiphe, and Helen Smith. Unfortunately, they are also exactly like Sommers.

Eh, Paglia may actually be worse. Roiphe and Hoff Sommers are definitely variations on a throw-other-women-under-the-bus theme, though.

I know I’m like always OT but everyone who posts here is so smart and knowledgeable that when I can’t find something on google the first people I think to ask are you guys.

I’m debating someone about the “evil things feminists have done.” They’re using the actions of a few feminists and the theories of a few dead feminists to excuse being anti-feminist, and I’m looking into their examples one by one to know what I’m talking about.

They brought up Erin Pizzey and I’m just over here like, was her harassment ever officially documented besides her own claims? Like, police reports and evidence? Proof that it was a bunch of feminists and not, IDK, angry batterers sending her threats. Or even if it was more than one or two people? And what was her issue anyways? In reading her statement she said stuff along the lines of 62% of battered women battered their husbands too which I find to be kind of telling in how she made so many enemies to begin with.

What is the deal with Erin Pizzey and is there crucial insight I need to talk about this subject intelligently?

Ok, on to the article haha.

I remember Roiphe as one of those “Well I don’t know anyone who has been raped, so rape is a trivial problem!” folks. I love how a woman who asserts that she has always been safe from rapists because she is 100% successful in avoiding them is automatically believed, but a woman who talks about her history of being raped and abused is automatically dismissed and accused of wanting attention. It’s almost as if society doesn’t care about rape victims.

I can’t remember who it was, but we had a commenter at one point who’d worked with Pizzey back in the day. Her observations match the ones I heard from other people who’d worked with Pizzey, ie. that Pizzey is a toxic control freak with an ego the size of Australia.

That’s kind of like saying “I, personally, have never been bitten by a poisonous snake, so either poisonous snakes don’t exist or all you people who keep getting bitten by them are just careless”.

If Hell exists there’s a special place in it for women who deny other women’s experiences of rape and abuse.