Categories
antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? entitled babies evil sexy ladies evil women excusing abuse grandiosity incoherent rage irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA my hot girlfriend oppressed men reddit sexual harassment

British Men’s Rightser to feminists: I will fight you until my dying breath! And so will my totally real ex-model girlfriend.

Sasha's eloquent words, immortalized in ugly MRA poster form by Cloudiah of Artistry for Feminism. And Kittens.
Sasha’s eloquent words, immortalized in ugly MRA poster form by Cloudiah of Artistry for Feminism. And Kittens.

Meet Sasha. Sasha is an angry young man living in England (allegedly), with a super-HAWT girlfriend (allegedly), and a lot of opinions about feminism (not-so-allegedly). The other day, he decided to share some of these opinions with the world. Or at least with any of those feminists who happened to be reading the Men’s Rights subreddit at the time.

In a topic devoted to a conference on “lad culture” in British universities, Sasha lashed out at feminists for what he sees as their hypocritical attack on boorish, sexist “lads.” Hypocritical, you see, because these very same women allegedly have sex with posh men all the bloody time:

You don’t like ‘lad culture’? My dear, I don’t give a fuck what you do and don’t like. …  The hypocrisy is staggering – you’ll be dropping your knickers in a flash if a dashing Etonian invited you to the Bullingdon, but God forbid some working class fella gets a bit tipsy and sings a rugby song.

Naturally, he dismissed women’s accounts of harassment as stuff and nonsense:

You’ve been threatened with rape by fellow students ‘to loosen you up’? have you fuck, you lying toe tag. If you’re going to make shit up try to make it less fantastical why don’t you.

So in short my dear, fuck you and fuck the high horse you rode in on.

In a series of followup comments so angry that some of them were actually downvoted to zero by the Men’s Rights crowd — I know, right! — Sasha pranced about on his own high horse spewing misogynistic nonsense. First, he demanded that feminists take on the very serious gold-digging whore problem:

[A]re women inclined to be gold-digging whores? Unfortunately, there’s a good case for saying you are. I wouldn’t paint all of you with such a broad brush, but let’s put it simply: feminists – you’ve got to own this shit. There are many, many negative aspects of femininity, and you’ve got enough shit of your own to address before you start pointing fingers at anyone else.

Then he proclaimed feminists to be the equivalent of the racist English Defense League and the Klan.

You’re a bigot. You don’t understand that you’re a bigot, because like the EDL or the KKK you think that your status as a ‘persecuted group’ gives you the right to behave as vilely as possible. However be in no doubt as the depth of my utter disgust for you as a human being and for your ideology.

Oh, we be in no doubt.

You are a supporter of an ideology of hate. You are a feminist. You are, by definition, a fascistic narcissist who trades in lies, deceit and hatred. I will fight you until my dying breath and society would be better without you. That clear enough?

When a female Redditor pointed out that she herself had been catcalled on campus, he pulled out his trump card: his EX-MODEL GIRLFRIEND.

OK, well how do you explain the fact that my partner, who is an attractive 20-something American former fashion model attending a Northern English university, says that she has never, not once, ever, heard a single catcalling insult or ever felt threatened in any way whatsoever on her campus, or anywhere in the UK?

I faxed this comment of his to my fax girlfriend Kate Winslet, and she faxed back a message about what a lying loser she thought he was. Then we fax made out for a while until we ran out of toner.

Anyway, then Sasha yelled at his main critic for a bit:

You’re not a decent human being, you’re a feminist. You’re as vile and reprehensible as other bigots like the cunts in the Westborough Baptist Church, or Golden Dawn or the EDL or the KKK. Fuck you, fuck the family that raised you in such a cloud of ignorance and hatred, and fuck everything you stand for.

As for ‘helping men’, disparaging bigoted cunts like you is a key part of it.

Yes, that’s right. He called someone a “bigoted cunt,” without the slightest bit of self-awareness.

Then he took it a bit too far:

By the way, do you like cats? I know most feminists do. I like cats too. I’ll bet your cat thinks you’re a bigoted cunt as well.

Dude. Don’t EVEN go there.

NOTE: Thanks to Cloudiah and the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to Sasha’s oeuvre.

536 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
DDW
DDW
10 years ago

Correct: certainly was not the glaring problem

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

I suspect you wouldn’t want the quality of feminist writing to be judged by the commenters but the leaders and authors.

Actually, I’m fine with the quality of feminist writing being judged by the commenters. I have quite a few issues withe the “leaders and authors” given that how they get to be the “leaders” (election by the media tends to be the most frequent method). I think the quality of a movement becomes apparent when you get to hear the voices of the generally unrecognised members of that movement. It’s from there that some of the best parts of feminism have come – intersectionality for example.

And everything you need to know about the abuser’s movement that is the MRA is right there, in their comment sections.

DDW
DDW
10 years ago

@titanblue

“The guy may be an asshat” comments. If read in the correct light, with a favourable squint”

Of course the use of May in that sentence was not intended to convey the possibility of “May not also” but it tidal idiomatic speech for yes thus us true but such and such does not follow.

How hard did you have to squint with “his attitude is most certainly appalling”?

DDW
DDW
10 years ago

“Actually, I’m fine with the quality of feminist writing being judged by the commenters. ”

I doubt that or you be fine with MRA spelling and grammar errors since they are rife here in the comments. I think you mean quality of thought being in comments and you get no disagreement with me there.

“And everything you need to know about the abuser’s movement that is the MRA is right there, in their comment sections.”

I agree, the comments are appalling.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

certainly was not the glaring problem

Not to you, maybe.

neither has it been shown that the typical MRA poster has spelling and grammar errors

Happily, we don’t have to prove anything to you. I suggest you go away and do a study of MRA posters. Look really hard at them. read them thoroughly. Possibly get a friend with a better ability to spot errors in grammar and spelling to help you. Feel free to come back with your findings.

Burden of proof – that would be with you.

DDW
DDW
10 years ago

IOW you can’t. I figured as much. One can’t prove a negative like that. That is basic logic and debate.

Shiraz
Shiraz
10 years ago

“Basic logic and debate” is proving someone else’s weak-ass points for them?
Color me surprised.

Worst troll ever.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

IOW you can’t. I figured as much. One can’t prove a negative like that. That is basic logic and debate.

Oh, good. Not only do you not understand grammar and spelling, you don’t understand logic either.

This is not the sort of negative that you can’t prove. You have posited that grammar and spelling mistakes are uncommon in MRA posters. You go away and collect, for example, every MRA poster published on AVfM (every poster to ensure you’re not cherrypicking and biasing the sample). you check all the posters and see what percentage of them have grammatical or spelling errors. Either it’ll very few (i.e. uncommon) or it won’t (i.e not uncommon). Simples.

You’re the one who came in here telling us we’re wrong. The onus is on you to prove that claim. but you won’t do it because you thought you could make that claim without being called on it. And you know you made it with no foundation whatsoever.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

@shiraz I know. How come none of our trolls understand how “can’t prove a negative” works? Or burden of proof? Sigh.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
10 years ago

Wow this argument is boring as shit.

So I decided to make it even boringer with this pointless contribution.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
10 years ago

By which I mean DDW is boring as shit.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

You can’t prove a negative, but you can provide positive evidence. Care to link to evidence of men’s shelter that was funded by MRAs? Or anything they’ve ever done that shows they actually care about helping men instead of hating women?

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

@auggz: no, because grammar! Maybe their approach here is to make feminism fail by boring us all to death.

Shiraz
Shiraz
10 years ago

Zzzzzzzzzz

kittehserf
10 years ago

Hey Dipshit Dreary Whiner, if you must hang around here giving off the smell of sock and generally making it All About You, FUCKING LEARN TO USE HTML. You really expect people to read your teal dears when you don’t even bother to use italics to isolate quotes, let alone manage to blockquote?

Better yet, fuck off. You’re even more boring than MRA trolls. Gods, no wonder you waste time talking to misogynists, you’re as dreary and nit-picking as they are yet can’t see what’s in front of you and wouldn’t get the point if it was on the end of a spear.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

@DDW

You misconstrued just about everything I wrote so I’m done debating a humorous poster mock-up.

Yes. Being interested in social issues, I read many different people, and do not believe that 100% of what they say is wrong.

Saying that MRA sites aren’t 100% wrong doesn’t explain why you find reading them worthwhile. I don’t agree with everything Steven Pinker says, but I think he’s worth reading. In contrast, the writings of self-proclaimed MRAs is intellectually bankrupt, ill informed and hopelessly compromised by their raging misogyny. They’re all a bunch of no account cranks that no reasonable person would take seriously. Their writing is abysmal, their half-assed articles resemble compare and contrast essays written by Junior College students for Composition 101.

In another post you mentioned Paul Elam article on Iran, which means you actually spent time reading Elam taking out of his ass about something he know nothing about. Elam on Iran? You have to be joking. Or trolling.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I’m going with trolling at this stage, and starting to wonder if there’s a whiff of old sock here. Haven’t seen any obvious tells (partly because the walls of text are too fucking boring to read), but we know at least one blog herpes who could keep this rubbish up at length.

gillyrosebee
10 years ago

I keep coming back here and checking out the comments and then going to read more of that Kotaku creep report. After all the fun of the punstravaganza, all the sanctimonious tone trolling is a bit of an icewater bath, so much so that the creepologists on Kotaku are more interesting…

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Speaking of kitties. Darrow just made a really cute Chewbacca noise.

I know nobody was speaking of kitties, but it’s a more interesting topic than grammar.

cloudiah
10 years ago

DDW is still blathering on, tiresomely? Okay, just checking.

cupisnique
10 years ago

I have to admit I found this exchange kind of amusing. DDW was unnecessarily hostile from the get-go over the choice to exaggerate poor grammar in a mocking poster using the rantings of a clearly hateful misogynist. It’s just hardly worth addressing how absurd your point was. It seems to me this was just a tactic to shift the focus from the misogynists back onto feminists forcing us to defend our position (over something quite innocuous), when the main point was never being debated.

You say you don’t disagree with how misogynist these people are and that bothers you, but the vehemence with which you used to attack the poster over a minor detail suggests you have ulterior motives in being here. If you merely wanted to point out the discrepancy between the post and the poster it could have been done with far less disdain towards the commentators here and only served to demonstrate that you were commenting in bad faith.

Tracy
Tracy
10 years ago

I would really like DDW to make a poster. I think it’s only fair. 😉

opheliamonarch
10 years ago

@Tracy,

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DDW’s spelling and grammar are appalling! Any poster designed by her would inevitably lead to a spelling mistake, and from there … GROUNDHOG DAY!

DDW
DDW
10 years ago

@titianblue

“This is not the sort of negative that you can’t prove. You have posited that grammar and spelling mistakes are uncommon in MRA posters.”

Actually I didn’t say that. I said they are not rampant, and they are not or it would be very obvious after looking at just a few. It certainly was not particularly obvious looking at David’s prior post.

“You go away and collect, for example, every MRA poster published on AVfM (every poster to ensure you’re not cherrypicking and biasing the sample). you check all the posters and see what percentage of them have grammatical or spelling errors. Either it’ll very few (i.e. uncommon) or it won’t (i.e not uncommon). Simples.”

Well now that you have narrowed it down from the universe in general to one list. Sure.

At the poster list for AVFM there are 40 posted listed with a link to additional 16. One link is bad bringing us to a sample of 55.

Out of those 55 I found 3 or 5 errors depending on how you count them.

1 had opressor instead of oppressor

1 had son’s instead of sons (which was corrected on a nearly identical poster)

3, which were the same poster with just one thing changed, had feminist instead of feminists

Hardly rampant ignorant errors, and none of them were your instead of you’re and certainly the person quoted here didn’t use your instead of you’re. This is an error rate under 10% which is probably very typical in any movement.

@brooks I was mistaken, Elam didn’t author the Iran article, a man named Ali did. Ali May indeed know something Iran but he makes some huge errors in thinking in the article even IF we assumed his facts were true.

I read them because one, knowing what people you have issue with are actually saying first-hand is better than second-hand, and I engage on these issues. I wasn’t aware of them until someone brought them up a few years ago. Additionally when I read them, I don’t trust their interpretation of what feminists are saying. I go to the source blog even if it is something I disagree with or ordinarily wouldn’t read.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

Oh god, she’s still here.

Quick! Everyone start talking in Netspeak! Maybe that’ll do the job of getting her tedious, one-note ass out of here. Wh00s w1th m3?

1 14 15 16 17 18 22