Meet Sasha. Sasha is an angry young man living in England (allegedly), with a super-HAWT girlfriend (allegedly), and a lot of opinions about feminism (not-so-allegedly). The other day, he decided to share some of these opinions with the world. Or at least with any of those feminists who happened to be reading the Men’s Rights subreddit at the time.
In a topic devoted to a conference on “lad culture” in British universities, Sasha lashed out at feminists for what he sees as their hypocritical attack on boorish, sexist “lads.” Hypocritical, you see, because these very same women allegedly have sex with posh men all the bloody time:
You don’t like ‘lad culture’? My dear, I don’t give a fuck what you do and don’t like. … The hypocrisy is staggering – you’ll be dropping your knickers in a flash if a dashing Etonian invited you to the Bullingdon, but God forbid some working class fella gets a bit tipsy and sings a rugby song.
Naturally, he dismissed women’s accounts of harassment as stuff and nonsense:
You’ve been threatened with rape by fellow students ‘to loosen you up’? have you fuck, you lying toe tag. If you’re going to make shit up try to make it less fantastical why don’t you.
So in short my dear, fuck you and fuck the high horse you rode in on.
In a series of followup comments so angry that some of them were actually downvoted to zero by the Men’s Rights crowd — I know, right! — Sasha pranced about on his own high horse spewing misogynistic nonsense. First, he demanded that feminists take on the very serious gold-digging whore problem:
[A]re women inclined to be gold-digging whores? Unfortunately, there’s a good case for saying you are. I wouldn’t paint all of you with such a broad brush, but let’s put it simply: feminists – you’ve got to own this shit. There are many, many negative aspects of femininity, and you’ve got enough shit of your own to address before you start pointing fingers at anyone else.
Then he proclaimed feminists to be the equivalent of the racist English Defense League and the Klan.
You’re a bigot. You don’t understand that you’re a bigot, because like the EDL or the KKK you think that your status as a ‘persecuted group’ gives you the right to behave as vilely as possible. However be in no doubt as the depth of my utter disgust for you as a human being and for your ideology.
Oh, we be in no doubt.
You are a supporter of an ideology of hate. You are a feminist. You are, by definition, a fascistic narcissist who trades in lies, deceit and hatred. I will fight you until my dying breath and society would be better without you. That clear enough?
When a female Redditor pointed out that she herself had been catcalled on campus, he pulled out his trump card: his EX-MODEL GIRLFRIEND.
OK, well how do you explain the fact that my partner, who is an attractive 20-something American former fashion model attending a Northern English university, says that she has never, not once, ever, heard a single catcalling insult or ever felt threatened in any way whatsoever on her campus, or anywhere in the UK?
I faxed this comment of his to my fax girlfriend Kate Winslet, and she faxed back a message about what a lying loser she thought he was. Then we fax made out for a while until we ran out of toner.
Anyway, then Sasha yelled at his main critic for a bit:
You’re not a decent human being, you’re a feminist. You’re as vile and reprehensible as other bigots like the cunts in the Westborough Baptist Church, or Golden Dawn or the EDL or the KKK. Fuck you, fuck the family that raised you in such a cloud of ignorance and hatred, and fuck everything you stand for.
As for ‘helping men’, disparaging bigoted cunts like you is a key part of it.
Yes, that’s right. He called someone a “bigoted cunt,” without the slightest bit of self-awareness.
Then he took it a bit too far:
By the way, do you like cats? I know most feminists do. I like cats too. I’ll bet your cat thinks you’re a bigoted cunt as well.
Dude. Don’t EVEN go there.
NOTE: Thanks to Cloudiah and the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to Sasha’s oeuvre.
I had one troll doll (can I keep talking about troll dolls?) that was scented with this plasticy artificial strawberry smell so unlike actual strawberries that I had no idea what it was supposed to represent. I only learned it was strawberry years later when I smelled some other supposedly strawberry-scented thing and said “what smells like troll?”
When I was an exchange student in the US during high school, I stayed with a Baptist family. Troll dolls were amongst the things they thought were of the devil. Some other things on the list: unicorns, D&D and the MTV music awards (it was the year Prince wore buttless pants on stage).
Noooo! I am too hooked on your alphaness, Cloudiah! DON’T GO! *sob*
I wasn’t around for this Pell character, but that biography was hilarious.
Well, they were right about the trolls, anyway.
@ weirwoodtreehugger, You may want to delve into NWO’s Big Book of Learnin’ as well.
All things Pell and NWO can now be found here.
You didn’t miss much, WWTH. Pell was just irritating. Sure, there were moments of glorious hilarity, like Uncle Monty, but those were few and far between.
I loathed cabbage patch dolls and trolls as a kid, too creepy.
But I hated Moomins worst of all, I used to have nightmares about them, I have no idea why as they look pretty benign. Still hate the little sods! There was one in Waterstones at the weekend, I’m sure the bloody thing was giving me evils.
@Cloudiah
I was a little disappointed that you didn’t MRA double period mutant ellipsis, but luckily the random underlining made up for it.
@DDW
The poster is a bit of a in-joke because it’s a reference to an earlier post covering the “ugly MRA poster form” in all its glory. I think the poster is more parody than satire, because it’s really just trying to recreate the bizarre, nightmarish aesthetics of actual MRA posters.
That aside, it doesn’t bother me if you want to explain at length why you think Cloudiah’s poster fails at satire or isn’t funny. I thought the one correct “you’re” was a deliberate joke and it’s one of my favorite parts of the poster. Go figure.
I do have a problem with you claiming that this poster exposes women or feminism to criticisms that any reasonable person would need to take seriously.
Doesn’t the MRAs rant about how feminists are “fascistic narcissist(s) who trades in lies, deceit and hatred” stand out a wee bit more? If Cloudiah’s grammar qualifies as rhetorical “ammunition”, then the British OP is tap-dancing on a pile of land-mines.
Feminists don’t have to strive for perfection, fearful that any misstep will support misogynist stereotypes of women and bring shame to the cause. (Cloudiah is satirizing that very idea in her series of very funny posts, FYI)
If you’re trying to debate something you read on the internet and the only fault you can point out is grammatical errors, you aren’t winning that argument.
Your MRA acquaintance has never pointed out MRA posters with poor grammar and sensory assaulting graphics, so they must not exist then, right? Sorry no, they do and David covered them in detail two freaking days ago.
Is reading all the “this and that” the “MRA advocate” recommends to you a worthwhile use of your time? Does he have a source for above average examples of MRA writing? Do you send him links to various feminist and non-misogynist articles and sites to counter their shoddy propaganda? Does he read and discuss them with you?
@cloudaih
*that you didn’t use the MRA double period mutant ellipsis
It’s always nice to start a long post with a grammatical fart. Sigh.
Ophelia – sorry to hear your experience with Moomins is ungood. I only know them from the books – somehow I can believe that a 3D Moomin would be disquieting.
DDW, if you’d like proof of authentic Men’s Rights posters with spelling errors, all you have to do is to look at the post previous to this one.
http://manboobz.com/2014/02/24/why-are-mens-rights-posters-always-so-comically-ugly-a-new-theory/
@DDW
Because MRA poster grammar is always so perfect!
DDW’s argument – if it is even capable of being parsed – is the weakest piece of tone trolling I’ve seen in a very long while; it’s obvious from a close comparison of the text that the actual content of Sasha’s anti-feminist ranting is totally unaltered, yet it’s the grammar that’s supposedly problematic… the grammar? No.
<troll>I find the following misuses of English highly offensive and demand immediate and substantial compensation for the permanent damage to the feminist movement that has clearly resulted.</troll>
too, not “to”
as evidenced by, not “as evidenced as”
The following … is an ellipsis, and it only has three (3) dots, so pay close attention, here it is again: …
carelessness, not “careless”
they would think — your subject is missing.
Actually, not “Actuallly”
minutiæ, not “minutae”
Totally appalling!
Xanthe, love it!
::applauds::
::hums Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi under breath::
@ Xanthe
You missed a couple!
Almost looks like English, and yet is not.
How does one presume upon an intention, exactly?
So, like, she has a chat with a misogynistic comment while waiting in line at Starbucks?
My favorite repeated oddity, though, was this.
Who ends a sentence with an ellipsis and then a period?
*yawn* knew that already.
Why are so many trolls ellipsis challenged?
Oh, and how could one forget the questions that failed to end in question marks? (Well, I did stop after awhile, since reproducing all of those mistakes would be … mind-numbingly boring.)
@Brooked, thank you for your response.
“The poster is a bit of a in-joke because it’s a reference to an earlier post covering the “ugly MRA poster form” in all its glory. I think the poster is more parody than satire, because it’s really just trying to recreate the bizarre, nightmarish aesthetics of actual MRA posters.”
I got the aesthetics part, notice I didn’t say anything about awful graphic design. It was obviously intentional.
That aside, it doesn’t bother me if you want to explain at length why you think Cloudiah’s poster fails at satire or isn’t funny. I thought the one correct “you’re” was a deliberate joke and it’s one of my favorite parts of the poster. Go figure.
“Doesn’t the MRAs rant about how feminists are “fascistic narcissist(s) who trades in lies, deceit and hatred” stand out a wee bit more? If Cloudiah’s grammar qualifies as rhetorical “ammunition”, then the British OP is tap-dancing on a pile of land-mines.”
I never said anything positive about the British OP, just how I took the poster.
“Feminists don’t have to strive for perfection….”
Everyone publicly critical of a movement should strive for perfection, it produces the best work.
“….. fearful that any misstep will support misogynist stereotypes of women and bring shame to the cause. (Cloudiah is satirizing that very idea in her series of very funny posts, FYI)
If you’re trying to debate something you read on the internet and the only fault you can point out is grammatical errors, you aren’t winning that argument.”
I am not trying to win an argument, merely state how it looked to me, an outside.
“Your MRA acquaintance has never pointed out MRA posters with poor grammar and sensory assaulting graphics, so they must not exist then, right? Sorry no, they do and David covered them in detail two freaking days ago.”
No he didn’t, and I go read the sites myself. I read that article two days ago. There are issues of content and poor graphics, and a stupid use of Tyra Banks as if her making a silly face proved that women aren’t worth respect. The grammar seemed fine in them all, is there a poster he referenced that I missed that made this satire all so obvious, or is the satire making fun of quickly posted internet quotes?
“Is reading all the “this and that” the “MRA advocate” recommends to you a worthwhile use of your time?”
Yes. Being interested in social issues, I read many different people, and do not believe that 100% of what they say is wrong. I enjoy this site because it distills down and mocks what is said that is hideously wrong. I am sure someone will want to debate what I think is not wrong. I am not interested, I posted this because you (thank you) took the time to do a thoughtful reply.
“Does he have a source for above average examples of MRA writing?”
I read many myself and many crappy ones. I don’t as a rule find bad grammar in anything but the types of things you would expect it at, such as quick Reddit posts.
“Do you send him links to various feminist and non-misogynist articles and sites to counter their shoddy propaganda? Does he read and discuss them with you?”
I send him to sites with better information (not necessarily feminist sites, I am not a feminist– another point I am not going to argue, but merely someone that cares about blatant misogyny). Yes, I read and discuss these sites, including this one, with that particular friend and many men and women, including my husband.
Hi David, yes I read that post you made first, but still don’t see this idea of such ignorant grammar as routinely using “your” instead of being “you’re” as part of their MO. Of course it might be in quick internet posts. Most of the posts on this article have a ton of errors, but your article does not. That is how it usually is. I went to the link with the collection of posters, and though I didn’t scrutinize each one, I went by each one and none of them jumped out with “Look at me and my awful gramarz!”
MRA posters generally have bad quotes, misogynistic speech, and awful graphics. I just don’t see how it is so well-known that they have bad grammar to make an obvious satire.
Did you ever read an explanation anywhere why they used that picture of Tyra Banks? That is what really got me, that was so stupid.
@titianblue I had never seen that poster. I never claimed that the MRA poster campaign was error-free, just that I had never seem one with errors, and that it certainly wasn’t such a common occurrence to make it obvious satire in another poster. The bad graphics were obvious. (technically what you pointed out wasn’t grammar but spelling, but one example doesn’t make a satiric pattern like the bad graphics do). Whoever made that error showed carelessness in producing it for it. If such things routinely occurred in graphics, which take more time and preparation than Reddit posts, then obviously that is a great target for satire. But my point was that I simply don’t see it.
@Brooked I wanted to add that the parody perhaps would have been successful if actual quotes from a specific conversation weren’t being used. I saw that poster and thought, wow, someone really made that mistake so many times in a misogynistic rant? So I scrolled down to read the original quotes, and that guy actually had better grammar than most in what he posted. That is inherent to my original criticism. There are quotes of a particular person in a particular conversation. That particular person didn’t write like that. In a way it is disturbing that such terrible content had such good grammar as you would hope that someone who wrote like that was writing in a frothing fit of anger and beside themselves rather than cool as a cucumber.
@david quick question, off topic. I read an article by Elam at AVFM on how good women actually have it in Iran. Of course Iran is pretty westernized so a much easier topic for him than say, Pakistan or Aghanistan, but do you plan on writing on how the MRAs sometimes idolize or downplay the issue of women in Muslim or Shariah dominated areas? If you have done this before, I would appreciate the link. If you want the link to the Elam article, let me know. It was last week (I think), pretty sure you saw it.
You seem to be missing the bit where the poster was made as quickly as a joke, and had a similar level of care and planning as a regular comment on here. Why are you holding it to a higher standard standard than everything else just because it happens to be a graphic rather than text?
And back to your inane original point – one decision to use fake bad grammar is not going to change anyone’s opinion of feminism. So you can take your tone trolling to someone who cares.