I just wish I didn’t feel so alone, you know? I know I’m here with my mom and a few other family members, but I feel disconnected from everyone. I can barely even articulate my feelings on what I really want. I feel so upset at myself for being so terrible at trying to fix my life. I could be spending all of my free time honing my programming skills so I can have a chance in the job market but I have so little energy and hope for the future that I just spend the day lying around in my bed. I could really be somebody of value, but instead I’m just wasting away like this.
Ally, that’s jerkbrain talking. We know you, and we all know you have value.
It’s not surprising you have low energy for yourself. You’re using a TON of energy dealing with over/covert attacks on your very existence. It must be exhausting.
My dad also told me “So far I have not found any Islamic evidence that your lifestyle [me being transgender] is allowed.” He’s presuming by default that I’m committing a sin. It’s like he’s trying to kick me while I’m down.
Kiwi girl
10 years ago
@Ally, you have enough to deal with, without covering for your sister. Is there any method you can think of which will enable you to get off the phone from your father as rapidly as possible?
He just keeps going on an on, as if he’s entitled to talk to me regardless of the circumstances. And if I ignore him for a while (which is what I’ve been trying to do) he becomes furious and out of control and starts making threats here and there. His treatment of me is just going to keep eating away at me no matter what.
Ally, I just wish your dad couldn’t talk to you at all. Every time he talks to you he just makes you feel like shit. He really sucks.
Kiwi girl
10 years ago
@Ally, yes your father does not appear to respect anyone’s boundaries, regardless of boundary type. It’s a pity your group was cancelled as I was hoping that there might be someone who has been in a similar situation to yours, who would be able to offer some “been there, this worked” advice – unfortunately I can’t. 🙁
Is it too uncomfortable to say something like “dad, as I said, I have to go, bye” and then just hang up? Alternatively, is there a religious leader that is sympathetic to transgender people and could intervene?
It sounds like your dad is trying to change the situation through his force of will (and he sounds like a bully who normally gets his way). I have no idea what your dad is capable of, and so I cannot tell if what I am about to suggest is safe, physically, for you or not.
Basically, as others have said, this ongoing contact with your dad is not helpful. It is unwelcome harrassment that serves no purpose other than your dad thinking he might influence your “lifestyle”. Would it be safe that, when you start talking to your dad, you lay out some boundaries about what you are comfortable/not comfortable with talking about? This is basically allowing you to say your groundrules. Then, if he transgresses those boundaries, tell him clearly which boundary he has transgressed and also that if fails to observe one of your boundaries, you will end the conversation. And then if he does it again, hang up on him.
Again – only do this if it is safe for you to do so. While this has little to no chance of making your dad change his mind about you being transgender, it will punish him for harassing you. The reward is that if he is actually nice, he gets to talk to you for longer.
If you ever emigrate to NZ, you’re welcome at my place. And it would be an international toll call for him. 🙂
My dad might be calling really soon as the night (or early morning, rather) progresses. He is expecting my sister to come home tonight. If she takes “too long” to call back from my phone, he will most likely start calling me and my brother obsessively and perhaps call the police on us to “make sure you’re okay.” I promise I’ll be okay no matter what, but I’m either going to stay up all night or end up contacting a crisis hotline.
Ally, like cloudiah said, it is jerkbrain talking.
You’ve mentioned having real trouble articulating what you feel to your family – would it help to write it instead of trying to say it? You’re extremely articulate in writing, you explain difficult concepts very well, and you certainly convey your distress and how trapped you feel.
Would telling your mum and sister things in letter form be easier? I really think you need to let them know how bad this is, and the three of you at least block the male parent from communicating. The whole thing of feeling so alone is a vicious circle if you can’t tell them things, and how can they support you if they don’t know how to?
Besides, WTF good does your father do any of you? He’s abusive, with every last twist and turn that goes into that, and he’s done you all huge harm, he makes you feel wretched all the time. None of this is on you, it’s the outcome of being raised by a man who should frankly not be allowed loose in society. Can you three stand together and say ENOUGH with this PoS who happens to have biologically engendered you and your sister? I think you’ll have to, eventually, and surely that’s implicit in the idea of moving to Washington – you’ve said you want peace away from your family.
Ally, I just wish your dad couldn’t talk to you at all. Every time he talks to you he just makes you feel like shit. He really sucks.
And he’s so good at it, he makes you think feeling like shit is your own fault. Abusers are master manipulators. He is VERY good at this.
We’re not as manipulative, so sadly I fear that in some ways we can’t help as quickly (because we also can’t hurt as quickly). Just know we care about you, Ally.
I’m going to sleep now. Or try to — insomnia’s been bad lately. But I’m leaving the bucket of hugs out in the middle of the room.
He even asked me “Do you think I am an abusive father? Have I abused you?” when I was on the phone. How could I ever answer that question with any answer besides no when he’s the one asking me? I feel sick.
Fortunately, it seems that I have actually slept somewhat, even if it was just for 5 hours. And though I expected that I would have to call a suicide hotline, I ended up not doing so because I was able to calm down myself enough so I could sleep. Unfortunately, I don’t feel relaxed at all and I feel nothing but dread. Looks like today will be a day of staying at home and talking to angry family members.
Ally, glad you got some sleep. So sorry you have to deal with this ongoing abuse and harassment and manipulation from your dad. Don’t feel guilty! And keep reaching out for support — the more people you can talk to who are outside that toxic family dynamic, and sympathetic to you, the better. The support group sounds great. Too bad it was canceled. Are there other support groups that might be relevant too so you don’t have to wait so long until the next one?
I doubt I’m telling you or suggesting anything you don’t already know here, but we’re all behind you.
Nova, glad to see you’re back and that you’re in a better place. Sorry that things have been so rough for you.
Nova!! I’m so glad to see you! I meant to email you and ask how you were and then life got in the way and here you are! It’s terrible that he hurt you bad enough to need surgery, but I’m glad you and the furballs are safe, and you have my email if you want to message me.
Ally — even if you had said yes, he’d have denied it, played gaslighting games about how you must be misremembering, it’ll be easier on you, at least for now, to just not confront him. You don’t have to deal with him, he’ll make it seem like you do, but you don’t. I need to go digging, not for his sake but for yours — I saw a special not long ago on trans Muslims, I’ll find it for you.
Hey Samantha, I mentioned on some other thread that I found a copy of that manchild article you were looking for but I don’t know if you ever replied to my comment – didn’t keep up on whatever thread it was. So if you’re still looking for it I have a PDF.
Hey, grumpycatisagirl, I would love that pdf. Sorry that I have been so absent, but illness and my bone-on-bone knees have had me in a truly horrid mood this past week or so. Sigh. I can barely walk these days.
Bleah! Getting older can be SUCH a drag! 🙂
grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago
If you want to drop me a line at the e-mail address katekeepdown [at] gmail.com, I can reply to you with the PDF attachment. Sorry your knees are giving you trouble. 🙁
We Hunted The Mammoth
I just wish I didn’t feel so alone, you know? I know I’m here with my mom and a few other family members, but I feel disconnected from everyone. I can barely even articulate my feelings on what I really want. I feel so upset at myself for being so terrible at trying to fix my life. I could be spending all of my free time honing my programming skills so I can have a chance in the job market but I have so little energy and hope for the future that I just spend the day lying around in my bed. I could really be somebody of value, but instead I’m just wasting away like this.
Ally, that’s jerkbrain talking. We know you, and we all know you have value.
It’s not surprising you have low energy for yourself. You’re using a TON of energy dealing with over/covert attacks on your very existence. It must be exhausting.
All the hugs. Please be kind to yourself.
My dad also told me “So far I have not found any Islamic evidence that your lifestyle [me being transgender] is allowed.” He’s presuming by default that I’m committing a sin. It’s like he’s trying to kick me while I’m down.
@Ally, you have enough to deal with, without covering for your sister. Is there any method you can think of which will enable you to get off the phone from your father as rapidly as possible?
@Kiwi girl
He just keeps going on an on, as if he’s entitled to talk to me regardless of the circumstances. And if I ignore him for a while (which is what I’ve been trying to do) he becomes furious and out of control and starts making threats here and there. His treatment of me is just going to keep eating away at me no matter what.
Ally, I just wish your dad couldn’t talk to you at all. Every time he talks to you he just makes you feel like shit. He really sucks.
@Ally, yes your father does not appear to respect anyone’s boundaries, regardless of boundary type. It’s a pity your group was cancelled as I was hoping that there might be someone who has been in a similar situation to yours, who would be able to offer some “been there, this worked” advice – unfortunately I can’t. 🙁
Is it too uncomfortable to say something like “dad, as I said, I have to go, bye” and then just hang up? Alternatively, is there a religious leader that is sympathetic to transgender people and could intervene?
It sounds like your dad is trying to change the situation through his force of will (and he sounds like a bully who normally gets his way). I have no idea what your dad is capable of, and so I cannot tell if what I am about to suggest is safe, physically, for you or not.
Basically, as others have said, this ongoing contact with your dad is not helpful. It is unwelcome harrassment that serves no purpose other than your dad thinking he might influence your “lifestyle”. Would it be safe that, when you start talking to your dad, you lay out some boundaries about what you are comfortable/not comfortable with talking about? This is basically allowing you to say your groundrules. Then, if he transgresses those boundaries, tell him clearly which boundary he has transgressed and also that if fails to observe one of your boundaries, you will end the conversation. And then if he does it again, hang up on him.
Again – only do this if it is safe for you to do so. While this has little to no chance of making your dad change his mind about you being transgender, it will punish him for harassing you. The reward is that if he is actually nice, he gets to talk to you for longer.
If you ever emigrate to NZ, you’re welcome at my place. And it would be an international toll call for him. 🙂
My dad might be calling really soon as the night (or early morning, rather) progresses. He is expecting my sister to come home tonight. If she takes “too long” to call back from my phone, he will most likely start calling me and my brother obsessively and perhaps call the police on us to “make sure you’re okay.” I promise I’ll be okay no matter what, but I’m either going to stay up all night or end up contacting a crisis hotline.
Ally, like cloudiah said, it is jerkbrain talking.
You’ve mentioned having real trouble articulating what you feel to your family – would it help to write it instead of trying to say it? You’re extremely articulate in writing, you explain difficult concepts very well, and you certainly convey your distress and how trapped you feel.
Would telling your mum and sister things in letter form be easier? I really think you need to let them know how bad this is, and the three of you at least block the male parent from communicating. The whole thing of feeling so alone is a vicious circle if you can’t tell them things, and how can they support you if they don’t know how to?
Besides, WTF good does your father do any of you? He’s abusive, with every last twist and turn that goes into that, and he’s done you all huge harm, he makes you feel wretched all the time. None of this is on you, it’s the outcome of being raised by a man who should frankly not be allowed loose in society. Can you three stand together and say ENOUGH with this PoS who happens to have biologically engendered you and your sister? I think you’ll have to, eventually, and surely that’s implicit in the idea of moving to Washington – you’ve said you want peace away from your family.
And he’s so good at it, he makes you think feeling like shit is your own fault. Abusers are master manipulators. He is VERY good at this.
We’re not as manipulative, so sadly I fear that in some ways we can’t help as quickly (because we also can’t hurt as quickly). Just know we care about you, Ally.
I’m going to sleep now. Or try to — insomnia’s been bad lately. But I’m leaving the bucket of hugs out in the middle of the room.
I’d like to manipulate Parental Unit into a room with a lego carpet and lock the door on him.
He even asked me “Do you think I am an abusive father? Have I abused you?” when I was on the phone. How could I ever answer that question with any answer besides no when he’s the one asking me? I feel sick.
That’s what he’s trying to achieve, Ally. He knows perfectly well you aren’t able to say HELL YES FUCKSHIT.
You will one day, though.
Fortunately, it seems that I have actually slept somewhat, even if it was just for 5 hours. And though I expected that I would have to call a suicide hotline, I ended up not doing so because I was able to calm down myself enough so I could sleep. Unfortunately, I don’t feel relaxed at all and I feel nothing but dread. Looks like today will be a day of staying at home and talking to angry family members.
Ally, glad you got some sleep. So sorry you have to deal with this ongoing abuse and harassment and manipulation from your dad. Don’t feel guilty! And keep reaching out for support — the more people you can talk to who are outside that toxic family dynamic, and sympathetic to you, the better. The support group sounds great. Too bad it was canceled. Are there other support groups that might be relevant too so you don’t have to wait so long until the next one?
I doubt I’m telling you or suggesting anything you don’t already know here, but we’re all behind you.
Nova, glad to see you’re back and that you’re in a better place. Sorry that things have been so rough for you.
Also: I wanted to announce that I’ve set up a new Open Thread for Personal Stuff to continue the discussion:
http://manboobz.com/2014/03/01/open-thread-for-personal-stuff-march-2014-flying-cat-edition/
Nova!! I’m so glad to see you! I meant to email you and ask how you were and then life got in the way and here you are! It’s terrible that he hurt you bad enough to need surgery, but I’m glad you and the furballs are safe, and you have my email if you want to message me.
Ally — even if you had said yes, he’d have denied it, played gaslighting games about how you must be misremembering, it’ll be easier on you, at least for now, to just not confront him. You don’t have to deal with him, he’ll make it seem like you do, but you don’t. I need to go digging, not for his sake but for yours — I saw a special not long ago on trans Muslims, I’ll find it for you.
Here you go Ally — http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam — not only are you allowed to be trans, there’s a fatwa permitting GRS.
Just thought you would find this interesting. And we wonder where these guys get their ideas about women!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/10/1290863/-TX-Gov-Abbott-R-Advisor-Charles-Murray-No-evidence-that-women-are-significant-thinkers?detail=email
Hey Samantha, I mentioned on some other thread that I found a copy of that manchild article you were looking for but I don’t know if you ever replied to my comment – didn’t keep up on whatever thread it was. So if you’re still looking for it I have a PDF.
Hey, grumpycatisagirl, I would love that pdf. Sorry that I have been so absent, but illness and my bone-on-bone knees have had me in a truly horrid mood this past week or so. Sigh. I can barely walk these days.
Bleah! Getting older can be SUCH a drag! 🙂
If you want to drop me a line at the e-mail address katekeepdown [at] gmail.com, I can reply to you with the PDF attachment. Sorry your knees are giving you trouble. 🙁