So I get periodic visits here from hostile and uninformed visitors demanding to know just what I have against those Men’s Rights activist-adjacent fellows who have declared themselves to be Men Going Their Own Way. Surely, they sniff, I can’t be really opposed to men living the lives they choose to live, independent of women? Don’t feminists encourage women to be similarly independent? You go, girls, and all that?
As a fellow calling himself Praetorian wrote:
Why are women so bitter towards men going their own way, without them
“John,” meanwhile, thought he detected some hypocrisy:
So, if a woman says she does not need a man in her life, she is seen as a strong independent woman. If a man says he does not need a woman in his life, he is seen as someone who has a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of women.
How convenient and how logical…………….
Happpily, the commenters here always put these misguided souls straight: we don’t object , in principle, to men “going their own way,” if that’s what they want to do.
But in practice, the men who classify themselves as Men Going Their Own Way don’t go anywhere; they stick around and stink the place up with their raging misogyny.
If you go to MGTOWforums or any other popular MGTOW hangout, you’ll discover that the regulars there don’t spend much time talking about the fabulous lives they’re leading on their own — the things they’re learning, the hobbies they’re pursuing, the experiences they’re having.
Nope. They spend virtually all their time and energy taking about women, and how awful they are. The typical MGTOWer spends more time thinking about women on any given day than the president of Planned Parenthood does. And what they think about women is awful. Just go through my MGTOW posts here for example after example.
You want to see some men who are really going their own way? Watch the video at the top of this post. These are guys enjoying themselves and not giving a shit what anyone thinks. They are AWESOME.
That’s what Men Going Their Own Way should look like. And I’m not even joking.
NOTE: I think I’ve posted this video before. I don’t care. Some people might not have seen it. EVERYONE MUST SEE IT.
Wait, how can this Omega Virgin Revolt guy be part of this ultra-reactionary “dark enlightenment” and be liberal and “egalitarian” at the same time? The movement itself rejects the pursuit of equality and fairness for an oligarchical hierarchy! The cognitive dissonance is amazing…. It does comfort me to know that these folks probably won’t have any lasting influence on society and if they do get into power somehow, they’ll be overthrown fairly quickly.
For some reason, Dark Enlightenment makes me think of pseudointellectual Juggalos.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this. The reality makes about as much sense.
Gah. That first line was supposed to be a quote.
@Mnemosyne, my guess? They believe in “equality” according to what one has to offer, and since women and PoC just naturally have less to offer, it’s totally fair for them to end up at the bottom again and again. Kinda like the people who say the US is doing just fine because we offer “equal opportunity” to everyone, and if poor people and PoC aren’t making it to the top, it’s because of some deficiency on their part.
@auggz:
I wouldn’t be surprised if the guys at RoK thought she was a murderer for that reason. It’s a sad thing that occurs when the embryo has so many problems, that it isn’t viable in the slightest. Poor Rebecca Sparrow… 🙁
Myoo, thanks for the Firefox info! 🙂
On MGTOW: As an asexual, I can’t help comparing them to aromantic asexuals. There there is a group who do not seek out romantic relationships, because they just do not feel romantic attraction. And so, with that time not seeking that out, they spend it not yelling and screaming about other genders, but just… living their lives. They go out with friends, they establish strong friendships, they pour time and energy into hobbies and work, crafting things to put out into the world or just to entertain themselves. Even the ones who are extremely introverted and would love nothing more than to be up in their rooms making things do that. They don’t devote all their time to fuming at people in relationships or telling them that they don’t need that stuff, they just live their lives.
So MGTOWs aren’t that ideal, but they aren’t even like the number of men, women, and non-binary individuals who (for whatever reason) need to take a break from romantic or sexual relationships. People who are recovering from abusive relationships and need some time to build themselves, people who have found themselves too immature to be a good partner, or who want to have a better sense of themselves before they put themselves out there. All sorts of people who unlike aromantics, want romantic relationships, but are opting out for now because it’s just not right for them at the moment. Similarly, these people just go about building hobbies and living lives, seeking out therapy if they need it, seeking out the comfort of friends if that comforts. They rebuild and introspect and sometimes they might feel lonely or take relief into their own hands, but similarly they don’t spend all their time whining and complaining about how mean those of their ideal romantic gender are.
So not even that, maybe we can find parity in women who have left the dating pool in bitterness. Who have found recent dates to be depressing and soul-crushing and have given up on love in 30-minute sitcom cliche style. Who assume, because of social messaging that they are “past their prime” and are never going to find love again. These women may not even exist outside of television shows. Surely here will there be kindred spirits. But even here, most of these women who are “done with dating” just go on and do their own thing. Use it as an excuse to pick up a hobby. They don’t spend their time going to pools of younger men and yelling at them that they are sluts for not sleeping with them. They don’t swap stories on the uselessness of men in general. Instead they just sort of build themselves up and most of their humor is self-deprecating.
I even think of my uncle who is heterosexual and not opposed to romantic relationships, but he’s built a life alone and he feels it suits him. He doesn’t whine about women or tell misogynist stories, he just pours himself into his gardening and workouts and life.
And that’s the central tragedy of MGTOWs. They are so busy obsessing about hating women for “pushing them out” through the unforgivable crime of not sending nubile young women to be their sex slaves that they forget to get a fucking life. To actually do something in this world. And it’s why their protestations will always ring hollow.
That’s unfair to Juggalos.
Cerebrus:
I agree with you. I just broke up with the bf and have decided to spend quite some time single and rebuilding myself now that I’m starting to gain confidence and realize what I can do and don’t have someone undermining that.
There are so many great things out there. I’m frequently shocked at how much people sometimes settle into their lives in spite of having low satisfaction with them. There’s always something you can take up to make you happier. whether that’s a sport, writing, music, another language, nature walks, reading a favorite novel, volunteering at a local animal shelter, etc etc. Life offers so much. And this is coming from someone who, many years ago, was suicidal. I am so happy I am still alive.
Dark Enlightenment are just a bunch of Randroids….err…I mean Objectivist, who couldn’t complete the first four chapters of Fountainhead and instead of playing out their standard Randriodian Atlas Shrugged fantasy have instead chosen to play the Matrix fantasy.
They remind of a bunch of Cartmans.
I cant get through Ayn Rand’s writings. I always felt uncomfortable with her portrayal of women.
I read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover a few years back – even the goes on forever “Your minds! Your stupid, stupid minds!” speech that everyone skips. It did strange and uncomfortable things to my mind, and I was, or thought I was, prepared. If I had read it in high school, it would have done some real damage. I have described it as the Necronomicon of political science fiction. I do not wonder at those who have read it and been. . . altered.
Atlas Shrugged is the only book I got so angry with I threw it across the room. Other people have told me that they have thrown Atlas Shrugged, before I even bring up my own experience. It is apparently an entire community of people.
Just about all of Rand’s garbage is a prurient adolescent revenge fantasy, and it plays on that part of the human psyche. And when you are young, your mind is filled with all sorts of weird shit, and Rand gives validation to the weird shit most of us put away when we grow up.
Many MRA’s consider themselves Objectivist, I see the connection in much their internet bullshit.
So how did you make it out of “Rand’s World” and back into reality?
They don’t seem self-aware enough to realize that having a life is how one is able to establish a meaningful relationship with another person.
@grumpycatisagirl
O_o Now I’m wondering how I”d react if I read it. (not that I have the desire to, just curious.) I haven’t ever done the ‘throw book across the room’ thing, but there are some tv episodes I’m pretty sure I would have thrown if they were books…
@auggz
Well, props to you for realizing her shit, even if it did take a bit 🙂 The only book I read of hers was Anthem, can’t remember much about it other than I found the end much boring-er than the beginning.
Um, wow O_o Her ideas on women are so fucked up… I mean, more fucked up than I already assumed.
O_o How does the disconnect work, between those ideas? I am confused.
@catgirl
I’m thrilled to hear that
Re: MGTOW
The problem with them, as with much of the MRM (aside from the raging misogyny and temper tantrums) is that it’s so ill defined that no two MGTOWers have the same definition. Some of them define it as going GALT, some of them define it as seperatism, some of them define it as not going to women for validation (and are stupid enough to think that all other hetero men are unable to do this because of medication), some of them define it as not wanting to be in romantic relationships with women etc. Cynical me thinks it’s so that they can bolster the numbers of their idiotic movement by laying claim to men that want nothing to do with them. The more honest me has to concede that it’s more likely due to idiocy and complete lack of organisational skills and community.
Well Rand first shitted out Anthem as a teenager…like I said “adolescent revenge fantasy”. Ayn Rand is a tragedy, not someone people should want to emulate.
Yep. One of my annoyances with Atlas Shrugged is that it seemed like she seemed to say everything she wanted to say in the first chapter and then she kept on saying it over and over again for over 1000 pages in case I hadn’t gotten the point yet. And it boiled down to, “You, reader, are awful and stupid and I am superior to you because I hate altruism.” Not a fun book to spend time with.
At least Anthem is short.
Ummm..excuse me? I may not have gotten that right. You may care to explain….
@grumpycatisagirl
O_o You’d figure she’d space out the message, at least. On the bright side, I now completely feel like I’m not missing anything…
I’m glad to say I’d never heard of Rand before I started reading here.
Cerberustheasexual (nice new handle, btw!) – great step-by-step reduction of how MGTOW aren’t, and are just a bunch of whining losers.
It’s not even that there are other things in life to make up for lack of romantic success – there are other things in life, period. Joy and pleasure in life are not dependent on whether one’s partnered (when being partnered is what one wants).
That’s one more thing these wankers don’t seem to get. They seem to think life’s either fucking a barely-legal-if-that sex slave or raging on the internet because they aren’t. There’s nothing else.
But the kid would also have to talk for hours at a time without pausing to take a breath or let anyone talk, then push another kid into a ditch and laugh at his broken leg.
Randroids are just horrible people. I can see why her philosophy appeals to teenagers who’re going through a “fuck you, world, for not realizing how amazing I am” phase, but adults really have no excuse for that shit.
Sorry, but I need to rant a little.
I truly believe that Ayn Rand was a sociopath, or at the very least, malignantly narcissistic. Several years ago, I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (I read Anthem in High School) just so I couldn’t be accused of not reading her works when I criticized her. This is not the “philosophy” of a person who has empathy or even common human decency.
Altruism, which Rand despised, is not an unnatural state in humans and other animals, but neither is selfishness which she so admired. I know what Rand thought was altruism but I submit that she misunderstood it. Altruism does not necessarily entail self-sacrifice to the detriment of the person. For instance, if you have only $5 for lunch but you give that $5 to someone who has no money and no food, you will likely not starve to death. According to Rand, that was an unacceptable act of altruism and that the moral (coughcough) thing to do would be to keep that money for yourself because the other person’s lack of money and/or food was their problem alone.
Some Randroids insist that Rand had no problem with altruism itself, she just didn’t want the State to force it on people. I disagree. Rand found altruism personally repugnant.
She was also a megalomaniac to the point where it even put Freud to shame. Her followers (jokingly called ‘The Collective’) could never disagree with her, even on a minor issue. They could not read any other philosophy besides Objectivism and excommunications where common.
Her novels, particularly Atlas Shrugged, try to make heroes out of two dimensional, cardboard cutouts of people. Both novels make heroes out of people who commit mass murder just because their own personal ideals are not honored. It’s no wonder that the woman who wrote them idolized a sadistic killer of children.
Okay, I’ll shut up now. But here, y’all might enjoy this. A comic strip biography of Rand’s life!
http://activatecomix.com/162-1-1.comic