So I get periodic visits here from hostile and uninformed visitors demanding to know just what I have against those Men’s Rights activist-adjacent fellows who have declared themselves to be Men Going Their Own Way. Surely, they sniff, I can’t be really opposed to men living the lives they choose to live, independent of women? Don’t feminists encourage women to be similarly independent? You go, girls, and all that?
As a fellow calling himself Praetorian wrote:
Why are women so bitter towards men going their own way, without them
“John,” meanwhile, thought he detected some hypocrisy:
So, if a woman says she does not need a man in her life, she is seen as a strong independent woman. If a man says he does not need a woman in his life, he is seen as someone who has a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of women.
How convenient and how logical…………….
Happpily, the commenters here always put these misguided souls straight: we don’t object , in principle, to men “going their own way,” if that’s what they want to do.
But in practice, the men who classify themselves as Men Going Their Own Way don’t go anywhere; they stick around and stink the place up with their raging misogyny.
If you go to MGTOWforums or any other popular MGTOW hangout, you’ll discover that the regulars there don’t spend much time talking about the fabulous lives they’re leading on their own — the things they’re learning, the hobbies they’re pursuing, the experiences they’re having.
Nope. They spend virtually all their time and energy taking about women, and how awful they are. The typical MGTOWer spends more time thinking about women on any given day than the president of Planned Parenthood does. And what they think about women is awful. Just go through my MGTOW posts here for example after example.
You want to see some men who are really going their own way? Watch the video at the top of this post. These are guys enjoying themselves and not giving a shit what anyone thinks. They are AWESOME.
That’s what Men Going Their Own Way should look like. And I’m not even joking.
NOTE: I think I’ve posted this video before. I don’t care. Some people might not have seen it. EVERYONE MUST SEE IT.
Political correctness is to be afraid to call misogyny a misogyny just for fear of losing potential allies, from what I understood that’s the main reason people here don’t like what I say, even though many agree that yjose religions are misogynistic. By the same logic why attack MRA’s either, afterall they could be allies as well.
@diana
Yay false equilvalence my day is complete! /sarcasm.
“What good it is to pretend those texts are something else just for the sake of political correctness?”
How in the FUCK does acknowledging some bits are horrible but you like some other bits have anything to do with political correctness?!
And I’m off to go stat hunting, now that we have a claim that’s testable.
Ooh, so another one who can’t seperate the texts from the followers, got it.
That most religious people are either Christian or Muslim appears true. As I see no mention of Judaism here, further research is needed.
@Falconer
I haven’t played D&D in eons, but I was very pissed to hear they watered down the alignments because in many ways the game was my intro to philosophy in the forth grade. My attraction to Chaotic Good and Neutral Good characters was pretty instant, as was my dislike for fascisty Lawful Evil and asshole Chaotic Evil ones. Contrary to the guys I played with, I realized Anti-Paladins weren’t cool anti-heroes, they were weak-willed narcissistic shitballs.
Deities & Demigods was my intro to religion and since we had the original first edition (I’m old), it was my intro to Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcock and the Cthulhu mythos as well. Good times. Sort of.
Allies in what? I’m saying, you have feminists here who have told you that they believe in some kind of faith/religion, and they take issue with you characterizing all religion as inherently misogynistic. So again, what the fuck are you hoping to accomplish with all this?
Because its coming off as, “real feminists are atheists.”
Wow, there are a lot fewer Jewish people than I’d expected. So yes, mostly Christian of Muslim, with Hinduism in a close third (all over 1,000 million followers). Then Chinese folk religions, Buddhism, worldwide folk religions, Sikhism and Shintoism, with Judaism polling at 14 million followers.
@argenti
I’ll sit back and cheer you on in your stat-hunting 🙂 I suck at it myself…
@sparky
Yup :/
This enters the hallowed halls of Troll high wit along with the recent use “David Futile”.
@David
If someone calls you David Fucktrelle don’t lose all hope in life, It Gets Better. Well, life gets better, not the emotional age of pee-wee trolls. That flatlined a long time ago.
@Diana Adams
Atheism doesn’t propagate anything apart from lack of belief in gods. There is no underlying moral philosophy, so while it is not inherently misogynist, it is also not inherently feminist or anti-racist, or pro economic equality or anything.
I’m an atheist myself, but come on, you are comparing apples and oranges here.
One of our best friends is the UCC minister who married us (note, ‘us’ being me and my husband). She is resolutely feminist and unapologetically Christian. I have often said of her that if more Christians were like her, the religion would have a much better reputation. Being a believing Christian no more implies misogyny than being an atheist implies a lack of misogyny. And many online atheists have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that the latter proposition is false.
Fun fact – we attended her ordination service, and I baked the immense loaf of challah that was used in the communion.
Speaking of Fruit Loops, it was pretty amusing how “OMG despite the rainbow colors, Fruit Loops are the same flavor” was big internet news two weeks ago. How did people not know Fruit Loops is sugar flavored and in no way involves fruit? I’m not going to ask why that’s news worthy because the answer is obvious and a little depressing.
http://t.today.com/food/sorry-froot-loop-flavors-all-taste-same-2D11980644
I have heaps of issues with Catholicism, none of which I want to get into, but I fully support Nuns on a Bus’s commitment to social justice. Nuns on a Bus are rad ladies and may they roll on!
Well yeah, being a Christian doesn’t imply being misogynistic.
That’s not quite what Diana was saying, either, though. She was stating that all religions were misogynistic in their core texts / princinples, and if you accept those, you also accept that misogyny is then divinely ordained.
Correct me if I’m wrong there.
That’s logically sound, in that “Sure, it flows from those premises”, but it doesn’t mean much of anything unfortunately. Plenty of religious believers happily discard pieces of their divine yscripture, on account of any number of reasons. Schisms are a thing, and you’ll find surprisingly few Christians who stone people who work break the sabbath, near none, in fact. Plus, there are large subsets of religion which either is not misogynistic, includes no elements of misogony or practice some – an unwillingness to include those religious experiences on account of their “Social importance” is, well, kind of an odd move, since they clearly disprove the main idea that “All religious scripture is misogynistic”.
It’s kind of like claiming that all atheists are amoral materialists, because they don’t believe in gods or divine purpose. It doesn’t gel.
And it’s neither political correctness nor an unwillingless to offend that cause people to go “Hey, you can certainly practice several kinds of religious activity and or belief that has no strands of misogynistic thought”.
You can. Lots of people do. Lots of people even disregard the parts of, say, the abrahamic religions that directly state women’s inferiority to man by claiming that it’s a later addition / edit – to put it differently, not everyone is a litteralist
I think you might want to consider this, Diane, and then stop this one here.
Sorry to post and run, but I thought people might like the link below. Sorry if this is a repeat.
http://www.avclub.com/article/how-a-transgender-foreign-hope-is-challenging-the-107511
No, actually you could be an atheist and anti-feminist one is not a prerequisite for the other, but those religions… they are misogynistic and male-centric, sorry what do you expect me to say, just reading those texts could make your hair rise.
@diana
Still waiting for you to clarify which of the ‘influential religions’ (or w/e you said) you’re talking about, because they are really not all the same.
Oh, also DIana, are you actually reading what anyone else is saying here? Or is this just some pointless exercise in time-wasting?
Ah, that’s one of the things that just made me completely unable to actually play D&D 4e at any point. I actually like the system, it’s very neat for fun times skirmishy fights, and it has a lot of neat combat things that really help spice things up, with movement and reactions and conditionals which break up the often static “Hit you, hit me, hit you, hit me” of other editions. (Of course I added in Iron Heroes to my 3.5 campaign, so now my games have that too, ha ha ha!)
But gods above and below, the difference between chaotic evil and lawful evil are so profound as to be the difference between coal and the atmosphere. There’s carbon in both, but it’s not the same thing. I like what they did with Unaligned, which was a good way of enforcing the idea that lots of people and things are basically neutral, and allowing an “Out” of morality bound questions for some PC’s… but removing lawful evil as a concept?
But but but Planescape! The Blood War! Chaos and Order! My precious Mordrons?!
All gone, like dust in the wind. Sigh.
So, Diana, do you think it’s impossible for a Christian or a Muslim to be a feminist? Seeing as those religions are “misogynistic and male-centric?”
Myoo hits the nail on the head, even if Diana is not going to engage their point.
Sigh.
Diana, you might want to Google the first rule of holes.
(Hi Fade!)
@Fibinachi
I feel your pain.
What is necessary to be considered a Christian? A Muslim? A Feminist? I promise I ask these three questions honestly. I may already know the feminist one, but I’m really not sure.
@Marie, I already answered this, the abrahamic religions plus hinduism those are the religions most people follow.
@Fibinachi, yeah that’s pretty much what I meant. And also you are talking about people changing by simply ignoring what’s written there and creating their own version of it, that’s cool, but the texts themselves aren’t changing.