So I get periodic visits here from hostile and uninformed visitors demanding to know just what I have against those Men’s Rights activist-adjacent fellows who have declared themselves to be Men Going Their Own Way. Surely, they sniff, I can’t be really opposed to men living the lives they choose to live, independent of women? Don’t feminists encourage women to be similarly independent? You go, girls, and all that?
As a fellow calling himself Praetorian wrote:
Why are women so bitter towards men going their own way, without them
“John,” meanwhile, thought he detected some hypocrisy:
So, if a woman says she does not need a man in her life, she is seen as a strong independent woman. If a man says he does not need a woman in his life, he is seen as someone who has a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of women.
How convenient and how logical…………….
Happpily, the commenters here always put these misguided souls straight: we don’t object , in principle, to men “going their own way,” if that’s what they want to do.
But in practice, the men who classify themselves as Men Going Their Own Way don’t go anywhere; they stick around and stink the place up with their raging misogyny.
If you go to MGTOWforums or any other popular MGTOW hangout, you’ll discover that the regulars there don’t spend much time talking about the fabulous lives they’re leading on their own — the things they’re learning, the hobbies they’re pursuing, the experiences they’re having.
Nope. They spend virtually all their time and energy taking about women, and how awful they are. The typical MGTOWer spends more time thinking about women on any given day than the president of Planned Parenthood does. And what they think about women is awful. Just go through my MGTOW posts here for example after example.
You want to see some men who are really going their own way? Watch the video at the top of this post. These are guys enjoying themselves and not giving a shit what anyone thinks. They are AWESOME.
That’s what Men Going Their Own Way should look like. And I’m not even joking.
NOTE: I think I’ve posted this video before. I don’t care. Some people might not have seen it. EVERYONE MUST SEE IT.
🙂
Right, bedtime for me. Niters, all!
At this point it’s not just the “let’s offend other commenters!” part that’s annoying me, it’s the lack of basic common sense. It’s like walking up to a moderate and going WHY AREN’T YOU MORE FUNDAMENTALIST, YOUR BOOK TELLS YOU TO BE NASTIER TO WOMEN AND GAY PEOPLE, DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEED TO BE LESS TOLERANT? I mean, have people just not thought this through or what?
That’s usually the problem.
Sorry if I sound pissy btw, I’m just getting frustrated because this is one of those topics that seems to come up over and over again. It’s like having to have the “no, Dworkin didn’t actually say all het sex was rape” conversation for the billionth time.
And I also have the right to point out the obvious, that most of the major religions are filled with misogyny as a core part of their philosophy and that to try to ignore this in them is equivalent to construct an entirely new faith.
I mentioned atheism not to tell people that this is best for them, but to point out that atheism as an idea does not content misogyny, while religious texts… they do and lots of it.
Are relevant mostly for historians and for everybody who is curious about the past, but if they are out of practice they do not influence our current lives.
I know.
Have a puppy in a beret.
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bf/b8/95/bfb895a70d7d16deb92e83bf3e22c1d3.jpg
Or maybe people should actually read those religious texts in full so they will see what this whole thing is about. And then decide if this is for them or not. This selective reading and sugarcoating doesn’t make the bad parts go away from the books, they are still there.
I wasn’t a part of any of the last blowups, but I have seen a sort of regular response to moderates and left wingers of all religious stripes from people who have been harmed, or hurt – it’s damn hard to launch yourself at a fundamentalist (after all, they just don’t care), but these are soft targets.
After all, someone moderate in any religious or political belief system has already said they’re open to other people’s points of view, so you can really _get_ to them. You can hold them accountable for the worst excesses of their group – that they may well campaign actively against.
It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
Except, you know, in the case of saying ‘QUIT!’ to religious people going ‘I agree this thing XYZ is problematic’ it’s useful how? It’s hardly targeting the actual problem.
In any case, a tiny list of prominent female philosophers (I could spam many more):
Diotima of Mantinea
Hypatia of Alexandria
Simone de Beauvoir
Elizabeth Anscombe (linked with Wittgenstein)
Mary Wollstonecraft
Dame Mary Warnock
And yes, Ayn Rand.
Philosophers are not necessarily great people.
I could give a vastly longer and much more creative list of female artists through the ages, though!(*)
(*) Also not necessarily great people, but generally everyone, male or female, is easier to get on with than Caravaggio.
As fascinating as your assumptions about what other people haven’t done and your demands as to what they should do are, Diana, I believe that I already told you that I’m done with this topic.
@ neuroticbeagle
(Bows to your image-searching skills)
Will show that to Mr C when he wakes up, since he’s a corgi fan.
I don’t think the police will do anything because my bf isn’t pressing charges, but they got her statement where she admitted what she did. Telstra (the contracting comp) have a zero tolerance policy for this sort of thing and they’ll never send a tech inside her house again.
Also, are you sure that’s a corgi? It reminds me of another breed but I can’t put my finger on which… Maybe it’s just the hat throwing me off – making it look more french than welsh.
Hmm, is there another breed that looks a lot like a corgi? It’s the shape of the face plus the fur type that makes me think corgi.
Actually, looking again, could also be a really stocky Shiba.
(Grumpy old person) Also Ayn Rand is NOT the foremost female philosopher – to claim that would be like claiming Donatello was the foremost historical artist:
Hypatia is still the foremost female philosopher, in the same way we still discuss Plato and Aristotle. She headed the school of Platonic thought at Alexandria, and taught mathematics, philosophy, and astronomy. Some people theorize that her murder marked the end of the Classical period of antiquity, she was so important – not, for example, the death of the (now) better known Socrates.
She was so famous that people traveled vast distances to attend her courses, and was noted for her clarity of thought and argument, and her excellence as well in mathematics and astronomical sciences. She appeared to be commonly called before magistrates to offer her views on various articles of law.
Her murder caused a massive political uproar and the gradual death of the intellectuals of Alexandria.
I mean, pth.
What’s an entire block of history passing compared to the death of Ayn Rand, I guess…
But every twit can say ‘Socrates’.
Good call Cassandra, I was thinking of a shiba – it’s the shading from red to cream on the face that made me think it was that. But yeah, it would have to be a stocky one.
(Also grumpy old person) Not really on topic, but Sappho’s one of the most important writers of “Western Civilization” despite not being male. The fact that Sappho is most known for Lesbos and lesbians, rather than for being known for being one of the originators of lyric poetry bugs the shit out of me.
All mentions of Ancient Greece induces a Sappho shout out from me, it’s beyond my control.
Cassandra — I am also SO FUCKING SICK of this discussion.
Diana Adams — look, we get it, the bible is laced with misogyny, that doesn’t mean anyone who’s some stripe of Christian accepts or actively promotes misogyny. And being about the eleventh billion person to try telling us it does makes us cranky.
Also, Hypatia! More than a philosopher, she should be regarded as some sort of hero, saving the books…
I’m gonna go mourn the library at Alexandria now.
Reading the thread I thought I’d suggest that Booberz who want a place to talk about progressive atheism check out Free Thought Blogs. They’ve got all of the atheism without the misogyny. I also recommend the Citizen Radio. podcast. Skepchick is great too. They’ve got a new parenting section that I really like.
That sand is awesome. It makes me want a microscope.
Respectfully, Diana, a large chunk of my life has been devoted to reading and debating over the relevant texts to my religion as well as others. I choose to reject many attitudes found in the writing of fellow believers who came before me as poisoned by social biases (and many at present day too). This is neither selective reading nor sugarcoating. Although he’s a Christian who wrote books too, I’m not forced to agree with Joel Osteen either! I refuse to accept that belief in a creator means I need to hate women, or that misogyny is somehow the more legitimate way to be religious, and I question why a performance of faith that seeks not to force itself on others and seeks no harm is anyone’s business to judge and scold over. Sorry everyone, I promise I’m done on the topic now.
Auggziliary: Those are gorgeous! I had to look and see if there were any magnifications of the red-sand beaches of Prince Edward Island, and found one: http://www.scienceofsand.info/sand/countries/canada/chelton.htm
Not as stunning as the millions of tiny seashell parts in Maui, but pretty cool in it’s own way.
“it’s damn hard to launch yourself at a fundamentalist (after all, they just don’t care)”
The vast majority of the Christian fundamentalists I’ve interacted with are indeed very close-minded about religious belief. I was initially taken aback by how by poorly some of them treated non-fundamentalist Christians. The older ones were often particularly nasty. :/
Certain doctrines of fundamentalist Christianity can be quite easy and enjoyable to attack, though.