Hey, everybody!
So you remember that post a couple of days ago, that one in which I quoted Jason Gregory’s most peculiar dating advice for angry men? You know, the one in which he suggested that men rebuff women who are interested in them with a long and rather nasty assortment of misogynistic insults? You know, like these:
Tell her that she isn’t interesting, that her soul is dog-shit and that she has nothing to offer other than boobs and booty, that she is a piece of shit and a total failure as a human being, that you don’t find her attractive and that she isn’t even good enough to be a cum-bucket.
And he went on like that for several more sentences. You can read the whole quote in my original piece, or in his original post on A Voice for Men.
Well, it turns out I totally misinterpreted Jason Gregory’s post, according to an unbiased and neutral outside observer named Jason Gregory, no relation to the original Jason Gregory, who’s written a post about it on his blog.
Hold on, I’m being told that this second Jason Gregory is in fact also the first Jason Gregory.
Anyway, according to Jason Gregory, even though Jason Gregory did explicitly tell men to “tell her … that her soul is dog-shit” he didn’t really mean to tell men to “tell her … that her soul is dog-shit.”
No, he only hypothetically meant this. He was just trying to suggest was how mean the ladies are when they turn down men.
What he was really trying to express, he now says, was that
men need to learn self-respect and to value their selves in totality—including the importance of valuing their sexuality.
Pretty weird how that came out in the original post as
Tell her that she isn’t interesting, that her soul is dog-shit and that she has nothing to offer other than boobs and booty, that she is a piece of shit and a total failure as a human being, that you don’t find her attractive and that she isn’t even good enough to be a cum-bucket.
But, he insists, his aim was really quite noble. As he explains now, he wasn’t just trying to stand up for the dignity of men — he was trying to protect women from having their inboxes filled with dick-pics.
I wrote that men should stop giving away cock like it’s worthless. Perhaps if men valued their sexuality, they’d be less inclined to inundate women with emails, messages, and pick-up lines. Perhaps if men actually valued their sexuality, the ladies at Jezebel wouldn’t be so inclined to complain about all the free-cock oppression. Perhaps if men actually valued their sexuality, men wouldn’t degrade themselves by harassing, begging, and inundating women with dick pics and pleas for their attention and affection.
Indeed, he went on to argue, it was not he who was the real misogynist, but me. J’Accuse!
This might seem a hard case to make, what with the whole “tell her … her soul is dog-shit” bit and numerous other remarks in his original post, like, for example, his description of women who actually enjoy sex:
You may be able to find a few coked-up girls who really get into it—the kind of girls who end up with sweaty hair, mascara, and cum dripping down their cheeks, but those girls usually have emotional disorders and are simply trying to bury their emotional problems in various sorts of drug induced escapes.
And who can forget his suggestion that men make their dates “pay for a juicy sirloin to replace all the jizzed-out protein” they cause to be jizzed out?
But apparently I am the true misogynist because I ran my post making fun of him during my pledge drive. Which makes me a “misogyny pimp.”
This is where the mocking of misogyny becomes misogyny. He doesn’t care about the women who bother to read his blog. Though he may have a few days in which he invites women and other commenters to share and cry about their troubles, any good pimp knows the importance of faking like he cares. Any good pimp knows how to manipulate the emotions of “his bitches.” …
[H]e doesn’t care about why men are sending dick pics and bombarding women with emails and messages through online dating services. He’s not looking for solutions to these problems. He’s not saying that men who do such things may lack self-respect because the value of male sexuality is often viewed as less-than-worthless in our culture.
Wait, what? I don’t care enough about men who harass women so I’m a misogynist?
Exploiting women is a form of misogyny … In this way, Boobz has more in common with an abusive pimp than he has with any heroic slayer of misogyny. Boobz is the misogyny that he mocks. Boobz is a misogyny-pimp.
QED, I guess. Apparently quoting misogynists, mocking misogynists, discussing misogyny, taking notice of misogyny in any way … makes one a misogynist. At least according to a guy who apparently thinks that the only women who really “get into” sex are “coked-up girls” with “emotional disorders” and “cum dripping down their cheeks.”
You’ll notice that last line in Jason’s quote links to a video; that link is from him. It’s a clip from the film Bad Santa. As Jason makes a point of mentioning several times, that’s where he got the “your soul is dog shit” line.
But if you watch the clip you’ll notice one thing about that line, in its original context in the film — it’s not surrounded by a paragraph full of vile misogynistic abuse. Nope, that stuff is all Jason Gregory.
That’s so weird. I’ve never tried cocaine and I’ve never like cum anywhere near my face. Just a personal preference, I do like giving blow jobs, I’m actually pretty good at it, so I’ve been told, anyway I digress… I AM really into sex, at times. At times I’m not. It’s almost like I’m an individual with a myriad of likes and dislikes that are subject to change depending on mood, health, partner, etc. it really does bother me when they’re getting it ALL WRONG about women, but sermonize like they’re experts. I don’t know ANYONE who fits these descriptions they throw around except in stupid movies or porns. I just want to shake them and say THAT’S NOT TRUE! NOT EVEN REMOTELY! LISTEN TO ME! IM AN ACTUAL WOMAN AND I KNOW WHAT I LIKE AND WHY I LIKE IT! SO DO OTHER WOMEN! LISTEN TO ACTUAL WOMEN!!!
That’s tentatively good news auggziliary. I just hope the ex calms the fuck down.
I once broke up with a guy I was long distance with. He lived in my hometown and I was away at school. So, we went out to eat and I broke up with him – I thought he had to have seen it coming because we had been doing nothing but fight for months – and the next day he called me up and said, “So. Did you make a decision?” I asked him “about what?” and he said, “about our relationship.” I had to break up with him all over again. I moved to a new apartment as soon as I got back to school and he spent years trying to get my address from my parents, until they moved too.
Yup, putzes only. Usually distinguishable by wardrobe affectations like black turtlenecks and trilbies, and by their habits of cultivating neckbeards, and horn-rims which may or may not be for vision correction. And their douchey, dismissive attitude toward anyone who doesn’t share their pet POV (which usually comes around to Ayn Rand, sooner or later).
The one that really pisses me off is that in a number of movies, the “ugly female” is not actually “ugly”, she just needs to stop tying her hair up/pluck her eyebrows/wear nicer clothing. Think Sandra Bullock in Miss Congenality. Apparently this trope is not used any more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeautifulAllAlong
I think Gregory’s post has a kernel of truth. I mean, he’s AVfM, so there’s a lot of ridiculous shouting and over-the-top hysteria, but I do think that at least some of the spammy noise women get in their inboxes are essentially a male defense mechanism.
It’s something I’ve thought about before. I mean, to be rejected or ignored after making yourself vulnerable- putting something of yourself into a well-crafted message- that’s personal, and that hurts. But getting rejected after a crude come-on is simply to be expected, right? It’s not about you personally.
It’s all interesting stuff. Some psychologist should do research on OKCupid dynamics.
Even when directed at men, the sex-as-a-transaction model is still super gross.
Notice how in this sentence the actual problem being identified is that the harassment of women by men makes women more likely to complain about it.
Also I wonder how that accounts for okc_ebooks, which shows that it doesn’t matter to a significant portion of these men if the woman is literally responding with nonsense; they will still do everything they can to interpret it as something favourable. The content of the reply is a secondary concern.
So men like being rejected? Even if the rejection is even more upsetting and degrading? Just because it hurts less than acting like a normal person? That doesn’t make any sense, then no man would be sending dick picks in the first place.
No, all I’m saying is that most men will get consistently rejected no matter what, and it hurts less if it following a spammy and/or crude and/or copy-pasted come-on, because it doesn’t feel like a personal rejection.
I think it’s pretty basic psychology, but of course, I’m just an eeeevil MRA.
Well, Jason Gregory basically stands as proof that chivalry is born of patriarchy.
Trying to “protect women” from getting loads of dick picks by saying a lot of horrible shit about women.
Do most men also intentionally flub all their job interviews? Seems like they must have significant trouble just existing in the world if their fear of rejection is that crippling and their response that counterproductive.
Nah, pretty basic psychology = setting oneself up for rejection delivers rejection. It’s much less effort all around if the guy simply doesn’t contact the woman in the first place: she doesn’t get harrassed and the guy never gets rejected. Yay, no more unsolicited dick pics.
“most men will get consistently rejected no matter what” = citation needed.
Hey, katz! I took your Feminist Borgcritter prompt on Shadowthon and wrote Esprit de Corps. Dead Zone Corps #000111 are a Borg unit in charge of exploring and investigating areas with only sporadic wireless access. Cut off from the Hive-Mother’s constant protocol signals, the unthinkable happens: one of them becomes individual. What to do? And how to identify something that can’t be understood?
This story is up for sponsorship at $30. It was also SO MUCH FUN TO WRITE.
RE: Ally
On that note: Love Hina is really, really not worth watching.
Someone tried to get us into that in high school. I didn’t get it then either.
Wait, why would he be doing that in the first place? Wouldn’t that make him just avoid women(like many men with anxiety issues do?)
You aren’t making any sense.
Who’s talking about anxiety issues? I think it’s perfectly normal to want to avoid feeling personally rejected on a daily basis.
Do most men also intentionally flub all their job interviews? Seems like they must have significant trouble just existing in the world if their fear of rejection is that crippling and their response that counterproductive.
It’s not like that at all. Intentionally flubbing your job interview ensures you won’t get the job.
But with OKCupid, it’s not so counterproductive. Some women will sometimes respond to a crap message if they like your photos or your profile or whatever. The message is but one part of the package, so to speak, and not really even the most important one.
So if you send out a bunch of impersonal messages and get a response, great, but you’re not emotionally invested in it, so it’s not a big deal if you don’t.
Citation badly needed.
“most men will get consistently rejected no matter what” = citation needed.
Is this controversial? Keep in mind I’m specifically talking about online dating here.
buttboy,
Sexually harassing women is not a strategy. It’s no different from an old fashion flasher in the park. It’s men getting off on disrespecting women’s boundaries.
You’re pulling things out of your ass again, buttboy.
*yawn*
I haven’t done online dating, as this wasn’t much of a thing (at least in NZ) when I was last looking for dates, so this may be a dumb question, but:
Do the women on these dating sites sit around waiting for guys to contact them, or do they contact the guys too? In BB’s comments, the only people granted agency are the males – I find that weird.
RE: saintnick86
Of course he doesn’t consider the context of the line used – he probably also thought Rorschach in Watchmen was meant to be admired than repulsed and pitied.
Much to my shame, I admit that I really enjoy Rorschach. But that’s because anyone that driven and stubborn gets my attention, even if I never, ever want to have a beer with them or talk to them. (And yes, I get that the only reason Rorschach was that driven was because that dude had serious issues. But hey, so do I.)
RE: auggziliary
So far his calls have been him sobbing uncontrollably,
My rapist was the same way. Not gonna lie, gave me quite the schadenfreude, even if it required a fair amount of system finagling to keep him from using us to get over his own damn break-up. I was like, “Yes, CRY, motherfucker! CRY! YOUR TEARS TASTE LIKE CANDY!”
RE: buttboy69
I do think that at least some of the spammy noise women get in their inboxes are essentially a male defense mechanism.
Dude. It ain’t MY defense mechanism. Don’t generalize. Somehow, I keep photos of my dick off the Internet.
I mean, to be rejected or ignored after making yourself vulnerable- putting something of yourself into a well-crafted message- that’s personal, and that hurts.
No, it’s NOT personal. I get rejected. I live. Also, if this were true, why aren’t women sending more anonymous snatch-pics to men?
But getting rejected after a crude come-on is simply to be expected, right? It’s not about you personally.
If that’s the case, why be polite about anything? Just be a douche ALL THE TIME to protect yourself from rejection.
So if you send out a bunch of impersonal messages and get a response, great, but you’re not emotionally invested in it, so it’s not a big deal if you don’t.
What a lovely way to live. If you’re not emotionally invested in anything, why on earth should I be interested in dating you?
RE: Kiwi Girl
Do the women on these dating sites sit around waiting for guys to contact them, or do they contact the guys too? In BB’s comments, the only people granted agency are the males – I find that weird.
Depends. The two friends I know who got together via OKC, one of them, the guy messaged the girl about her awesome Kaylee cosplay, complimenting her on how well she’d put the costume together. (They’re engaged now!)
The other was a married poly couple seeking another woman. So I don’t know who exactly messaged who, but I think it was the woman who messaged the couple. (They have all broken up/divorced now.)
Mysoginists, like racists, are always hilariously incoherent in defending themselves, and never more so than when pulling out the “you’re the real (mysoginist, racist)!” trick. No surprise that Jason Gregory is no different.
@LBT, thanks. And great news on the couple’s engagement.
Guys get rejected no matter what, but they also get responses…no matter what. Okay then.
How can you compare rejection with sexual harassment that sometimes escalates into sexual assault is beyond me.
No, you’re an ASSHAT, is what you are. Telling a woman who has responded politely that her soul is dogshit isn’t “pretty basic psychology”, it’s straight-up MISOGYNY.
But of course, leave it to an MRA to get that all mixed up.