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Yet more proof that Men’s Rights activists live in an imaginary misandrist dystopia of their own making: this post on Reddit, which has the Men’s Righsters there in a tizzy:
Yeah, fellas, assuming that this even happened, I’m pretty sure what we’re dealing with is what the rest of us human beings call a “joke.” A dumb joke, but a joke nonetheless. This young lady, I feel confident in saying, does not actually intend to spermjack some innocent lad so she can spend the next 18-plus years of her life raising a child herself while trying to squeeze child support out of someone who hates her.
But don’t tell that to the Men’s Rightsers, who assume the worst about this young woman — and then some.
Indeed, some of the regulars there are so angry about it they literally want to get the young woman fired or at the very least admonished for making such a terrible, terrible comment in front of young, impressionable students who, I guess, have never heard a joke before.
Another commenter wonders how it is possible for a chubby woman to also be cute. Because fat women are hambeasts AMIRITE FELLAS HIGH FIVE!!!1!
If you scroll down far enough in the comments you will find some Men’s Rights Redditors wondering if maybe, perhaps, possibly, the woman might be making a joke. But these aren’t the comments getting the upvotes. In the Men’s Rights subreddit, anti-woman hysteria trumps rational skepticism pretty much all day, every day.
Q: How many Men’s Rights Activists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: MISANDRY! SPERMJACKING! MALE DISPOSABILITY! THAT’S NOT FUNNY!
Seconding cassandrakitty.
@MEZ:
I’m prefacing this with *my* belief is that the therapist is best placed to counsel Catgirl on her issues with the BF. I’m not sure about some of your advice:
You’re running with a particular negative interpretation of what Catgirl commented, even though you say that you’re sure they didn’t mean it that way. Catgirl is possibly not in a cognitive/emotional state where they can know what they “really want”, so to advise them to deal with this BF issue now – when they’re already having issues dealing with PTSD – seems to be a less optimal focus of effort. The therapist is the person best placed to assist here, which is why I think that we should leave it to the therapist to make suggestions in this area.
I don’t know anything about the relationship Catgirl has with their BF, including the duration and intensity of the relationship. If they have been together for a short time (<3 months), then I would be seriously concerned about his behaviour being at this level of shite because that is the "honeymoon" period in a relationship when people are on their best behaviour. Also, Catgirl has had the courage and capability to request that the BF *not* make certain comments that upset her (for obvious reasons). These requests are what people would typically do straight away, maybe with the odd hiccup (it doesn't sound like the BF's negative behaviours here are hiccups, but that it is part of an overall worrying trend). If he is a jerk, then he doesn't get an automatic free pass to continue to be a jerk where Catgirl continues to suffer as a result. Fuck giving him "weeks, and sometimes longer".
You’ve assumed:
1. that Catgirl had an active role in “blowing up” the argument, and
2. that Catgirl’s not already apologising.
This quote is from one of Catgirl’s posts:
Catgirl sounds like they are expressing discomfort with what the BF is saying (which is good), and then the BF is completely discounting what Catgirl has said, and is basically “I’ll do what I like even though this hurts you”.
The BF sounds like he could be a manipulative assertive ass. Encouraging Catgirl to (continue to be?) the one who apologises only helps the BF appear to be superior to Catgirl.
Being the one that apologises to an abusive person, and the BF could well be abusive, confirms to the abuser that *they were in the right*. While this tactic can be self-preserving at the time, it’s not a long-term strategy in this case.
I have been in three horribly abusive relationships – one where I left when I realised that the only reason I hadn’t left is because I hadn’t been put in hospital. At the stage I left the third one, I told my friends that if anything happened to me that looked accidental, to make sure the cops investigated. So I am well versed in experiencing abusive relationships. And one of the problems for me in those relationships were people giving me advice along the lines of what you just did. It made me think that maybe things were my fault,and *I stayed longer in those relationships than I should have, because the comments made me stop trusting my own judgement*. That’s the key thing that abusers do – they stop you trusting yourself.
Oh, catgirl, I had this boyfriend once. Near the end of the relationship I had this period where I was dealing with some intense anxiety issues. One day, I suddenly became very self-conscious while talking about this problem with him and said, “Ah, I know I won’t always be like this.”
His reply was a very matter-of-factly, “Yes you will.”
A few days later, this guy, who had proven to be on the committment-phobic side asked me to move in with him. Weird. He become wholly fixiated on the idea all of the sudden, right around the time my bad patch began. I kept thinking, “Wow, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say he was too insecure about cementing the relationship before because I appeared too confident or less needy or whatever. Now I show some vulnerabilities and he all of the sudden wants me to live with him?”
And when someone you think the world of is going through a hard time and says something like, “I won’t be always be this way.” Shouldn’t your response be something along the lines of: “Of course you won’t, everyone goes through shitty times that make them doubt themselves. You’ll get better. You can do it. Just give yourself a break.”
He had his own issues. Funny thing is, if he thought he was manipulating me into staying with him out of fear of being alone, it didn’t work. All my alarms just sounded off and I practically left skid marks in my wake. I think of him as the bullet I dodged — and I wan’t even at my best at the time.
Run, don’t walk. Take care of yourself.
*could be a manipulative abusive ass (not manipulative assertive ass).
I’m just not seeing why saving the relationship should be a priority here, especially given all the signals catgirl has given that that may not be what she wants.
I could be reading this totally wrong, of course, but it kind of feels like what she was looking for was to hear other people support her feeling that she has a right to have boundaries, since the boyfriend seems to have been trying to use the fact that she’s in therapy to make her doubt her ability to make decisions.
@cassandra, yep, I read the posts as wanting confirmation of her interpretation/feelings.
MEZ, I’m going to respectfully disagree with everything you’ve written. It’s just got way too much about how the dude is feeling, when catgirl’s feelings are what’s important right now. If she needs space, she has every right to demand it.
While I’m okay with someone taking a break, particularly when they need to focus on themselves, I’m not okay with manipulation or intentionally hurting your partner — which is exactly what he’s done by refusing to stop calling cat girl crazy even after being told that it’s hurtful. There’s a difference between “I need some me time to sort out my brain” and “I need not to be around you because of what you do to my brain” — the former will, hopefully, improve and the break will end and you may get back together, the latter probably won’t improve and you might as well just end it.
And this comes from someone with the same PTSD issue — never question your gut feelings about someone, even if you think you might be being overly cautious — if they’re worth keeping around, they’ll understand why you’re cautious and respect that.
Pretty much seconding hellkell, except I do think using I statements is a good idea, if only because it gives cat girl the agency in the situation instead of leaving wiggle room for him to argue. For example — “I need time away from you” versus “you need to give me time away from you”, and then act like a broken record if you need to (and consider changing from “time away from you” to “we’re done” if you have to keep repeating that you need a break — no respecting that, particularly if he frames it as you not knowing what’s best for you, is bad news)
@weirdwoodtreehugger
Yeah. The mra’s don’t actually care what happens to the kid :/
@cat
Dang, how often do garage doors get broken? And on a similar note, I can think of more ‘stereotypically male jobs’.
-paying the bills (cuz women are bad at math, duh. I should note my mom always did this one. Dad did the laundry. They actually divided the chores, tho I still think my mom got stuck with more of them. :/)
-mowing the lawn. Or at least I think it’s considered a ‘manly’ job.
-not a common occurrence, but putting doors back in doorways. I remember this one because my friend’s mom somehow suckered us into helping her with this. And it worked, cuz we enjoyed it XD
-grilling. This one is, like, so commonly a dude stereotype (I think) it would’ve made way more sense than repairing garage doors.
@opheliamonarch
I laughed too hard. XD
@bina
Wait, I thought taking out the trash was something you passed onto your kids. Or, at least, it’s one of the only chores my brother does, besides that one time my dad suckered him into mowing the lawn.
And I should probably shut up about my family now in case it’s getting annoying.
@kittehs
Sadly, I know next to nothing about
lightbulbs* cameras, so no. 🙁*and, yeah, I did accidentally type that as lightbulbs first 😛
@catgirl
I don’t have any good advice, especially since my instinct is to cut someone out of my life when they say stuff like that and don’t get why it’s fucked up (and I actually can cut them out of my life. I can’t always.) Internet hugs from me, if you want them, though.
Seconding cassandrakitty. Him acting like he knows what you need better than you is as skeevy as fuck.
Okay, wow. It doesn’t matter what they mean to him, cuz he’s saying it to you. If he doesn’t mind someone calling him ‘crazy and manipulative’ that’s his deal, but he can’t tell other people how they should feel about language.
Seconding Cassandrakitty. If he comes around and stops being a jerk, that’s great, but Catgirl isn’t under any obligation to wait for that to happen. She does not owe him a second chance.
And sorry for the long comment, I’m gonna post it before it gets even longer.
Yeah, it was obviously not meant literally. I still think it’s a tasteless joke, though.
Or just admit that you made it up, and no such account exists.
Or just admit you’re wrong, buttboy.
@catgirl, I can’t add much over what others have said but I do have a few thoughts.
A big high five for you going to therapy, it can be a hard first step but it is an important one. I can tell you what I think I would do but it may or not be the best thing for you. Don’t be afraid to talk to your therapist about the whole situation you are in. They are trained to ask the right questions to help you sort things out and help you figure out what is in your best interests.
I’m very happy to hear that you have friends and family to support you. If you decide to take a break from boyfriend or even break it off don’t beat yourself up over it. Take time for yourself to find out what you want and what you need. Sometimes just taking a step back from life when you feel that it is getting out of control can have a profound effect. Know that you deserve someone who respects you for you. Maybe he was saying these things because he was being defensive, maybe he was saying these things because he’s an asshat. Either way you deserve to set up boundaries and have them respected.
From my personal experience eventually with help the hurt will start to dull. One day you will wake up and realize that you actually slept through the night, one day it will occur to you that you made it a whole *insert length of time here* before you thought about the hurt. It won’t happen in any sort of set time frame but please keep your head up. Don’t be afraid of getting help and support from therapy and those around you. There is a light at the end of the tunnel no matter how dim as long as you keep trying and it will eventually get brighter.
Internet hugs and cat cuddles all around! 🙂
Hugs to all who offered, and to all who want them.
Wetherby:
I know exactly the kind of skepticism you’re talking about. It’s kind of annoying, but I figure protecting oneself and learning from events of the past is good.
Kiwi girl and Falconer:
Thank you. She was definitely a horrid person, and my parents saw it long before I did. That was part of her game though, she bent me not to trust anyone but her, from my best friends to my parents.
It’s been a rough couple of days, and those come up once in a while, but it’s like Sam-I-Was mentioned, the hurt has been dulling, and sometimes I go good periods of time not thinking of her. But getting those thoughts out of headspace helps. Even if I get a bit shaky in the process.
And I apologize, I don’t want to make it seem like I was trying to steer the conversation away from catgirl. I was thinking more show of solidarity at this point.
Ug, offtopic, but leechblock works annoyingly well. 😮
I think there’s a few things I should clear up, as I wasn’t clear enough to begin with.
@Cassandra
I agree with this. I think that not only does she have a right to focus on what she needs, she has an OBLIGATION to focus on what she needs. However, I think that she also has an obligation to be respectful to him and how he feels, as all decent people do. I don’t expect that we disagree here. 🙂
IMO, as decent people, we should strive to be considerate towards our acquaintances unless and until they prove themselves to be on the attack and we’re forced to defend ourselves verbally, or as a last resort, physically. I don’t see any evidence that she needs to be verbally aggressive here, and she certainly doesn’t need to be physically aggressive. My opinion, I could be wrong.
I don’t have a problem with her framing it as taking a break, I have a problem with her taking a break at all. I think, unless both parties are in 100% enthusiastic agreement that they wish to scale back the commitment/closeness of the relationship, that she should either commit 100% to continuing the relationship and working out the problems in it, or she should commit 100% to leaving him, ending it, do not pass go, never date again, so they both move on. It’s her choice as to which route to take. If she wants to leave him, then she should just leave him. If she wants to still date him, then she should stay with him, no break.
Look, what people intend is not always what the other person experiences. Guys do this all the time as well, they blow hot and cold, act non-committal, ask for space, and more because they’re confused in their head. However, the end result is pretty much always that it strings the girl along. It unconsciously says “I’m not ready for this relationship right now, but let me give you this glimmer of hope so I can keep you around in case I later change my mind.” It’s extremely unfair to the other person, guy or girl. Again, what people consciously intend is not always what the other person experiences.
@Kiwi girl
I agree she should talk to her therapist, and the the therapist is the single best qualfied person because of zir training. However, even therapists are not unbiased, and it’s most important for catgirl to listen to herself. Some of the worst advice I have ever gotten in my life has been from a social worker, and my mental health improved dramatically after I dumped her. Everyone has some bias (including you and me). 😉
Everyone has their own limits on what they will and will not take. My husband has been a jerk, and I’m glad that I gave him time to come around, because my couple months of fighting have turned into many years of happiness. We are all flawed. But again, to each zir own.
@ MEZ
You realize that these people are dating, not married, right? Also, I’m not at all sure why you think that your personal beliefs about whether or not taking a break is an acceptable thing in a relationship should have any bearing on any relationship other than your own. Or why you think that any of this is appropriate to be dumping on someone who came here asking for help.
I’ve been eaten by the blockquote monster! Oh noes!
@MEZ: /sarcasm on Thanks for letting me know I was being “dramatic” when I explained how advice like you gave sucked for me bigtime when I was in abusive relationships. /sarcasm off
Do you realise how you are coming across?
catgirl, not much to add but lots of hugs (take advantage with kitty-who-follows-you if zie’s a cuddler!) and n’thing about spidey senses. I hope your therapist is as kind and helpful as mine were.
DaveL – laughed my head off at your MRA/PUA joke!
@Cassandra
I gave him a second chance when we were dating, well before we were married. I would not have married him if he did not change, and rather quickly. I am in no way a chump. 🙂
I’m confused as to why you think that I’m “dumping” here. Catgirl asked for advice and explained her situation. I gave her some advice based on what she said, and explained the reasons for the advice that I gave. It was never my intention to “dump” here, only to give advice, and to explain the reasons for my advice.
But maybe the issue is just that we disagree. That is fine. We will have to agree to disagree, unless there is something more to discuss. 🙂
Although I’m sorry for all the grammar mistakes. I’m writing quickly and not double checking. My bad, but I should go.
Everyone else who commented on her situation gave her advice that amounted to “trust your instincts, we support whatever choice you make”. You gave her instructions as to how she should be behaving, shifted part of the focus to what’s best for her partner, and invalidated what she had already said was her preferred way of proceeding (more than once). If you can’t see how these are fundamentally different ways of approaching the situation I’m really not sure how to make it any clearer.
@MEZ
“I think, unless both parties are in 100% enthusiastic agreement that they wish to scale back the commitment/closeness of the relationship, that she should either commit 100% to continuing the relationship and working out the problems in it, or she should commit 100% to leaving him”
Alright.. I only partially agree here. The thing is, I don’t think it’s leading someone on to tell them you need time to figure shit out. You have explicitly told them what you need and therefore given them the opportunity to either say, “Ok I will give you time to figure it out” or they can say “I’d rather not wait, if this isn’t working out I am going to move on”. It’s a totally different scenario if you are fairly certain you want to break things off, but just don’t want to hurt someones feelings or you are afraid to be alone and don’t tell them any of this until you get the courage to break up with them weeks, months, years, later. That’s dishonest and misleading, the other scenario isn’t!
I do think they way you are describing what she should do is giving catgirl way too much of the responsibility. It makes it seem like she is the one that has to do “whats right” rather than vice versa. Sometimes it can work out that if you work on a relationship together things will improve, but it really does have to be 50/50 and if that’s not what she’s getting then maybe it’s best she does take a break to get some perspective.
@kiwigirl
I meant that you are being dramatic in your assumptions of how things will go, not in your behavior. But that is expected, because you have your experiences, and your biases, and I have my experiences, and my biases. Maybe I am being dramatic as well? 🙂
We should simply agree to disagree. Different life experiences, different conclusions. But I apologize if I offended you, or poked at a sensitive subject. It wasn’t my intention to hurt of offend you in any way.
Now I really have to go. Sorry for the derail everybody but I think I’ve made my point as best as I can. On with the regular postings of kitty pictures. 😀
Can I just point out that, when someone seems to be struggling with feeling like they have a right to make decisions, coming in right after they’ve said “yay, I think I’ve made a decision!” and immediately undermining that decision may not be the most helpful way to give that person the support that they were seeking?