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Yet more proof that Men’s Rights activists live in an imaginary misandrist dystopia of their own making: this post on Reddit, which has the Men’s Righsters there in a tizzy:
Yeah, fellas, assuming that this even happened, I’m pretty sure what we’re dealing with is what the rest of us human beings call a “joke.” A dumb joke, but a joke nonetheless. This young lady, I feel confident in saying, does not actually intend to spermjack some innocent lad so she can spend the next 18-plus years of her life raising a child herself while trying to squeeze child support out of someone who hates her.
But don’t tell that to the Men’s Rightsers, who assume the worst about this young woman — and then some.
Indeed, some of the regulars there are so angry about it they literally want to get the young woman fired or at the very least admonished for making such a terrible, terrible comment in front of young, impressionable students who, I guess, have never heard a joke before.
Another commenter wonders how it is possible for a chubby woman to also be cute. Because fat women are hambeasts AMIRITE FELLAS HIGH FIVE!!!1!
If you scroll down far enough in the comments you will find some Men’s Rights Redditors wondering if maybe, perhaps, possibly, the woman might be making a joke. But these aren’t the comments getting the upvotes. In the Men’s Rights subreddit, anti-woman hysteria trumps rational skepticism pretty much all day, every day.
Q: How many Men’s Rights Activists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: MISANDRY! SPERMJACKING! MALE DISPOSABILITY! THAT’S NOT FUNNY!
Thanks so much again, cassandrasays and kiwigirl. I’m going to work things out in therapy. Also it looks like I might have time for some sleep before my day gets going. 😀
Also, what kiwi girl said. The more you tell us about this guy the more it sounds like he’s gaslighting you.
If you need to talk about it more now/later then hey, we’re here.
I meant cassandrakitty I dunno what kind of typo that was.
I’m also glad I’m not “over reacting” or “crazy.”
Sometimes I wonder if I am. I think this is how I get into relationships where this concern of mine is brushed off as “you hate all men because one treated you badly” or “you’re just having a bad day.” I need to be more self confident (working on this with a therapist).
Telling women that we’re “crazy” is a classic way of getting us to shut up, or persuading us to disregard our boundaries. This stuff is really, really gendered.
There’s nothing “crazy” about not liking it when your partner uses words to hurt you, and keeps doing it even after you ask them to stop.
I need to go to bed, so hopefully this will put a smile on your face:
“you hate all men because one treated you badly” is a generalisation. All generalisations are wrong.
Be gentle on yourself with issues like getting more self-confidence. You’ve already got a lot on your plate, so don’t be discouraged if other areas seem to be coming along more slowly at a particular time. We’re all masterpieces of art in progress, which means none of us are ever “finished”. 🙂
@catgirl:
I am in agreement with cassandrakitty and Kiwi girl, and hate to say it, but this guy sounds exactly like an ex-girlfriend of mine. TW for abusive S/Os.
This girl was very fond of turning something I said hurt me into ‘You’re just not understanding me’. For instance, she wrote a story in which her main character, who happened to be living the same life and having the same significant events that she had just had, met this guy whom she started seeing without her boyfriend knowing. Her boyfriend in the story happened to say things that were straight out of my mouth. Needless to say, I was incredibly hurt by this, as it looked to me like she was passively admitting to cheating on me. When I confronted her about it, she was in tears, saying that I’m a terrible person for not trusting her more, and for ever being hurt by something that was clearly a work of pure fiction.
She broke up with me later after I had called her out on the cheating that was now happening in front of my eyes. I’m glad she got tired of using me. I’m trembling writing about this now.
This guy doesn’t sound like he’s worth your time, but I would trust your gut. As far as what to say? I’d ask your therapist, they probably know this situation a lot better than I do. I can only say be honest, and if he tells you your feelings are wrong, get rid of him.
How many MRAs does it take to change a light bulb?
There are no light bulbs left. Due to feminism everything is being lit using SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES!
How many PUAs does it take to change a light bulb?
PUAs change light bulbs all the time. Like six every day, twice that on Sundays. And they do it better than anybody else. The fact they think light bulbs literally appear spontaneously above people’s heads when they get an idea should not be considered reason to doubt any of the foregoing.
To clarify my above post, I believe the ex I mentioned falls in a minority of humanity who are complete manipulative scumbags. I still hurt sometimes because of her, but I don’t want to go into that here, at least not yet, and that’s no reason whatsoever for me to think that all women are like that.
Hugs if you want them, and all kinds of hope for you.
@catgirl Hope you got your sleep and are feeling better in consequence.
Just wanted to add that you don’t actually have to “ask”. If you want to, you are fully entitled to tell your bf that you are taking space. Bf is not entitled to be in your space. You have gifted some of your space to him in the past. If you don’t have that space to spare right now, he has no right to decide that he gets to be there in spite of how you feel.
It is your choice who you share your space with. And any bf (or gf) who tries to over-ride that choice is disregarding your boundaries.
This isn’t saying you have to “tell” rather than “ask” – just something to hold in the back of your mind to hopefully give you more confidence in your feelings & opinions.
Absolutely not. I’ve had just one relationship like that, which I broke off after turning up cast-iron proof that she’d told me a direct lie about something important, and with no contextual justification (such as wanting to conceal a birthday surprise, etc.).
This was pretty easy to do because alarm bells hadn’t been so much ringing as clangorously jangling from the very start of the two-month relationship – she was very keen on playing mind games to “test” something or other, and while I played along at first they became increasingly irritating, not least because I increasingly distrusted her motives. So I politely asked her if she could stop… and she didn’t. Which leads me to suspect in retrospect that I was actively looking for an excuse to break up with her, so I was quite grateful that she obligingly gave me one.
But this experience has made me very very suspicious of relationships where one partner clearly isn’t caring about the feelings of the other. It may be temporary, it may be longer-term, but either way it makes me fear for the relationship’s future.
Good ones DaveL. 🙂
catgirl, I dunno if you’ll check back, but I just want to nth what everyone else said: you’re not overreacting, this person is not treating you how a partner should. Belittling the therapy that is helping you, then turning around and acting like a pseudo-therapist when you tell him you want space from him, and reacting to your tears callously — all worrying. It sounds like he may have a pattern for deflecting all blame away from himself and onto you, as if it’s your fault for being hurt by hurtful actions, whereas a healthy partner can admit they made mistakes that hurt the other. Whether it’s intentional or not and what makes him this way are secondary details to the fact that if being around him makes you feel worse than not being around him, you have every right to decide he doesn’t get to be around you. Best wishes for you.
Seconded props for DaveL. Now, here’s an interesting feminist joke I heard on the Internet:
“How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?”
*dead serious, raises eyebrow*
“One, and it’s no laughing matter.”
Now, this could be based on the popular image of feminism as an anti-humor movement, especially if you play it mock offended rather than cool. However, when told by a feminist, it becomes self-ironic while having certain koan-like quality reminding that there are actually social issues more important than humor.
@catgirl,
I’m so sorry you have had such an awful experience, everybody here has already given you great advice so I’ll just offer hugs if you want them, and a sleepy little kitten:
http://youtu.be/PBqMgLvbN_M
We changed the light bulbs for you!
Yeeeaaah, my spidey sense is also tingling big time. Not to be too blunt, but he sounds like he’s terrible for your mental state and you at least need a break.
As for —
“As the conversion continued I found myself crying because I don’t know when the hurt will stop. He told me it never would.”
Just that could be justified by context, that is, if it were said in terms of it doesn’t, but it gets easier, from someone who clearly hopes it gets easier for you sooner rather than later…yeah. Not trying to justify your BF’s behavior, just noting that pecunium said something very similar to me at one point and I found it comforting (I guess I should clarify, lest that come off weird, he was, I think, relating my state to how he was when he first came back from active duty)
The rest of that is bullshit though, and it sounds like that wasn’t meant to comfort you that it’s okay that it still hurts. Hugs to you, and AIT, if they’re welcome.
How many MRAs does it take to change a light bulb?
None. They’ll just gaslight you instead.
(Catgirl, I hope you’re doing better. Seconding the DTMFAs. That shit’s not kosher.)
Catgirl, that convo is setting off all my warning-klaxons, too. If you’re not ready to DTMFA, then you would be well-served with a hard ultimatum: “Either you give me some space right now, until I decide I’m good to be around you again, or I give you all the space, and you get out of my life.”
*dumps box of kittens on everybody*
Hugs to everybody who’s feeling down!
Catgirl, I can’t say anything any better than what’s already been said, but that guy sounds like he’s not healthy for you to me, too (for what it’s worth).
AIT, wow, your ex sounds really awful and I’m sorry the thought of her makes you shake.
@AIT I hope you’re feeling better now. Mind fuck games, like you had played on you, and like Catgirl seems to be experiencing, are *not okay*.
BTW just in case anyone is wondering, I have put “seems” in relation to Catgirl only as she hasn’t definitively called it that (yet) whereas AIT has. Just in case anyone reads my comment above as privileging male experience over female experience. I’m just trying to locate my comment within the interpretation of the actors, and I realise that interpretations can change over time.
This.
I obviously haven’t met this person, but your descriptions give me a feeling that he attempts to take advantage of *perceived* vulnerabilities in you. To me, THAT is manipulative.
@catgirl I’ve been in a similar situation. (I’ve been with hubby for 12 years, been diagnosed with Panic Disorder/Depression/Adjustment Disorder, and I’ve been through some trauma, (although maybe not as severe as yours)). Here is what I’ve learned;
1. Things get blown up in the heat of the moment and people say things that they don’t mean. This is especially true when very emotional topics, such as rape, or taking a break from the relationship, come up. This is meant as a way to give perspective, and not as a way to serve as an excuse. We are all flawed.
The difference between a person being an insensitive cad because of human flaws, and a person being an insensitive cad because of an abusive personality, is that the cad who is insensitive because zie is a flawed human will admit to zir mistakes and make changes if called out, given a chance to to cool down, and given enough time to think things through. On the other hand, the abusive personality will never stop vying for control. Even if zie is backed into a corner and forced to apologize, it will only be an matter of time before zie is back to playing zir games.
Sometimes it takes time to be able to spot this pattern, and to be able to differentiate between these two separate possibilities.
2. Do not expect change to happen overnight. People get defensive sometimes; it is not the “best” action, but it is still human. Everyone deserves a chance to think things through and to come to their own conclusions. People are often poorly equipped to deal with subjects such as rape at first, unless they happen to be victims themselves, or at the very least very well read. Remember, you have had time (weeks? months? years?) to arrive at the place that you are emotionally at now. Your trauma will effect him emotionally as well, and remember that it may take him some time to work through his denial.
Remember that I only mean this to give perspective, and I am not using this as an excuse for his jerky behavior. You absolutely have the right to draw boundaries around behavior that you find unacceptable, no matter what his “feels” happen to be.
My advice;
1. Take time to figure out if you are ready to be in a relationship right now. If, and only if, you are, spend the time to figure out whether or not you want to be in a relationship with HIM. I have to admit, I don’t believe in “taking breaks” from relationships. I’m sure that this is not how you mean it, but to me, “taking a break” basically amounts to stringing a guy along. And even though you do not mean it in this way, I feel that this is the de facto reality of “taking breaks”. I think that you should either cleanly break up with a guy, or that you stay fully in the relationship. This way no-one is put through all of the pain of breaking up, but with none of the closure.
Again, I am sure this is not your intention, but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And of course, this is only my opinion. 🙂
2. If you decide to stay with him, then give him some time to come around, but don’t give him forever. My hubby has made changes throughout the years, but it has often taken him weeks, and sometimes longer, to come around. If I had expected quick results, we wouldn’t be together now, and I wouldn’t be this happy. On the other hand, life is short, and no-one should be expected to wait, or to put up with someone else’s shit, forever. 🙂 I suggest that you give him at least a month to change, but not more than several months, depending on the quality of the rest of the relationship.
3. You both played a part in blowing up the argument. If you two are going to stay together, you should apologize for whatever part you played.
Use “I” statements when you make any complaints. For example, you could say something like; “I am sorry that things got out of control the other night. I have been hurting badly lately, and when you say , I feel .” Then offer a solution to the problem. For example, he suggested that you should speak to your therapist about your dreams. You could say something like, “I think you are right about speaking to my therapist about my dreams. However, I feel that it would also be helpful if you could come with me, and we could talk about the ways in which you could help me together”. Then let him say his piece, listen, and give him whatever amount of time you’ve decided beforehand to make his decision. If he doesn’t come around by the date you’ve decided, and it’s really important, then LEAVE HIM.
Some caveats;
1. Obviously if you EVER EVER feel that you are in DIRECT sexual or physical danger, you should leave IMMEDIATELY.
2. You should insert your own words, thoughts, and feelings into my examples. I only gave you those examples in order to provide you with a framework. 🙂
3. BE GENTLE. Remember that to be defensive is to be human. The number one rule with communication is to “use a gentle start-up”. 🙂
4. Don’t let him know that he’s on a time limit. The idea is to give him a chance to change while avoiding the possibility of wasting your life. What you DON’T want to do is to pressure him and to manipulate him, which giving him a verbal time limit will do.
5. However, if something is a deal-breaker, it’s only fair to tell him so. Continue to enforce your boundaries, and get help with your therapist if you struggle to do this. Remember to avoid threatening anything that you are not willing to do, or you will never be taken seriously. 😉
6. Again, if you EVER, EVER feel that you are in DIRECT sexual or physical danger, leave IMMEDIATELY.
Well, these are my experiences and opinions. Hope that they have helped. 🙂
Ug, wordpress ate my examples. My bad, it should be common sense not to use brackets. Here’s the paragraph as it originally appeared;
“Use “I” statements when you make any complaints. For example, you could say something like; “I am sorry that things got out of control the other night. I have been hurting badly lately, and when you say (XXXXXXXX), I feel (hurt, dismissed, etc.).” Then offer a solution to the problem. For example, he suggested that you should speak to your therapist about your dreams. You could say something like, “I think you are right about speaking to my therapist about my dreams. However, I feel that it would also be helpful if you could come with me, and we could talk about the ways in which you could help me together”. Then let him say his piece, listen, and give him whatever amount of time you’ve decided beforehand to make his decision. If he doesn’t come around by the date you’ve decided, and it’s really important, then LEAVE HIM.”
Clearly we’re not all going to agree on this, but I’m going to suggest to catgirl that she has a right to focus on what she needs to do for herself right now rather than worrying about how her boyfriend feels too much. I don’t really see why she should feel any obligation to BE GENTLE, or why she shouldn’t frame what she’s doing as taking a break if that’s what works best for her.