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Yet more proof that Men’s Rights activists live in an imaginary misandrist dystopia of their own making: this post on Reddit, which has the Men’s Righsters there in a tizzy:
Yeah, fellas, assuming that this even happened, I’m pretty sure what we’re dealing with is what the rest of us human beings call a “joke.” A dumb joke, but a joke nonetheless. This young lady, I feel confident in saying, does not actually intend to spermjack some innocent lad so she can spend the next 18-plus years of her life raising a child herself while trying to squeeze child support out of someone who hates her.
But don’t tell that to the Men’s Rightsers, who assume the worst about this young woman — and then some.
Indeed, some of the regulars there are so angry about it they literally want to get the young woman fired or at the very least admonished for making such a terrible, terrible comment in front of young, impressionable students who, I guess, have never heard a joke before.
Another commenter wonders how it is possible for a chubby woman to also be cute. Because fat women are hambeasts AMIRITE FELLAS HIGH FIVE!!!1!
If you scroll down far enough in the comments you will find some Men’s Rights Redditors wondering if maybe, perhaps, possibly, the woman might be making a joke. But these aren’t the comments getting the upvotes. In the Men’s Rights subreddit, anti-woman hysteria trumps rational skepticism pretty much all day, every day.
Q: How many Men’s Rights Activists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: MISANDRY! SPERMJACKING! MALE DISPOSABILITY! THAT’S NOT FUNNY!
Mez: The content in your “advice”, both the text and the subtext is that you know best, and the rest of us are just blowing things out of proportion.
That you don’t overtly intend that to be the subtext has nothing to with what the rhetorical devices you are using convey.
Although “Agree to disagree” could be code for “we’re never going to agree, so lets just cut our losses and move on, sing kumbya, have a beer/weed/whatever, and hold tentacles. Agree?
Which has, as it’s content meaning, “I don’t want to talk about it, so I’m going to use a stock phrase which puts the other person in the position of looking like they can’t let go”.
Just as the passive aggressive, “Agree” at the end of that paragraph does.
So, no, I don’t agree with the idea that you actually meant it to mean, “it’s all the same to me”.
Not a fair point.
Quite a fair point.
Let’s look at your defense of yourself.
If she wants to salvage the relationship then she should be the one who “fixes” things as the person who is currently being the most reasonable,
Nopetpus. You don’t know what’s going on. You don’t know that she wants to fix it. What you know is that she wants to take a break to think things over. What you know is she’s reported bahaviors of an insensitive nature. What you know is those behaviors have at least a whiff of the manipulative (what we don’t know is if this is passive manipulation because the BF has internalised the idea that women are “emotional”, or if he has tendencies to abuse).
What we know is you were willing to tell catgirl she was doing it wrong.
And telling you to stop telling someone you don’t know personally, how to live her life, based on what you think is going on, isn’t cutting off our noses, nor hers.
To the actual argument in that comment (taken in the abstract) if there is a relational problem, it’s up to the people involved, each and every, to work on it. Otherwise all what happens is like papering over a hole in the roof. The roof looks better but the hole persists. The next time the wind comes on strong, or it rains, or snows, the paper is gonna give way, and everything is as it was.
Try “is really annoyed when misinterpreted”.
Then try speaking in ways which aren’t open to the (consistent) interpretations you don’t like.
Because it’s not just one person getting this read on things. It’s several. Moreover there isn’t anyone else coming in to say, “guys, maybe it was meant like this (which happens; look at the most recent discussion of Jojo). So, from here, it looks like the problem isn’t with the readers, but the writer.
You keep saying you have a hard time making yourself plain. If it’s a persistent problem (in more than one venue) the odds are that something about how you are saying things is the cause. In that case, the advice you gave about being the reasonable person and fixig the problem seems apt.
Because when someone has to spend all their time explaining that “you misunderstood me”, the odds are they didn’t say what they thought they did.
And now I have to leave for work.
And this, again, is an example of why lots of us are reacting very negatively to your comments on this issue. This? Comes across as judgmental, cold, and controlling. It makes your willingness to support an abuse victim contingent on them doing what you tell them to do.
I can’t stop you from talking to your relatives like that, but I can and will try to stop you from talking to someone who asks for help here like that.
@Unimaginative:
I see what you did there.
People should not be condemned for staying with an abusive partner, here’s 50(!) reasons why the person stays:
http://www.vcpionline.org/pdfs/50%20Reasons%20Why%20Victims%20Stay.pdf
While the person stays, support is crucial: http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-articles.asp?section=00010001002200410001&itemid=1277
@Cassandra
Oh this is fucking rich. Nice assumption that I’ve laid out some demands on my loved one verbally, and those weren’t my internal parameters in order to keep me safe. Do you know what abusers do when they get left? They go off the rails. This is not a safe person, she is literally a violent, crazy, drug addict. As in literally crazy, as in my understanding is that she literally is delusional, and maybe hallucinates, and goes off on drug and alcohol fueled rampages. It’s hard to tell what is from the crazy and what is from the drugs. My relative is also really messed up, and a drug addict, and it’s hard to tell what is real or not, but I’ve been told by her friends that they have witnessed her being beaten, and they think that maybe that she has been brain-damaged by it.
If I’m going to stick my neck out and risk violence or dramalamas myself then I absolutely have the right to set the parameters in which I help out. And even if I DID verbalize them to her, again, I have to right to tell her when I am willing to help her, and when I am not. It’s not like I put limits on my love or affection. I give her all she can take of those.
I have called family crisis centers begging for help and do you know what they said, they said that there was nothing more that I could do. Other family members have moved to involuntarily commit her (because she wasn’t eating or careing for her physical needs), finally the police did it before we could, but she walked out as soon as she could and went right back to the abuser. So excuse me if I do not want me or my children to be the sacrificial lamb to save her. Who are you to judge?
I’ll get to emily’s eye-opening post when I’ve had a chance to cool off.
The problem is that you’re projecting your situation and the way you’ve chosen to deal with it onto other people, and that’s not OK.
Also, it’s pretty upsetting for people who’ve been in abusive relationships to see the shit the abusive partner pulls described as “drama llamas”. Kiwi Girl already said that she was feeling triggered. Why aren’t you listening?
Ug, shouldn’t rant like this, but to clarify, it’s a cycle. Abuser goes nuts when left, but she hasn’t left, it’s a break, so abuser just amps up the abuse, dramallamas, and starts making wild crazy accusations which maybe are even believed. Even if the abuser when the other way, and started behaving, it’s still just perpetrating the same pattern, and not changing it. The abuser has absolutely NO chance of moving on because it’s a break, and they expect to get back together. At least with no contact she may eventually move on.
I am also literally crazy, inasmuch as anyone can be “literally” crazy since it is a pretty vague term. And, like many literally crazy people, I was abused by a scumbag who took advantage of how vulnerable I was as a result. I didn’t really want to engage with you, MEZ; I preferred to just give my support to catgirl and avoid you. But please, with this.
Catgirl does not need to prove that her boyfriend is a MEZ-approved abuser to be justified in taking a break, by the way. She can take a break from her relationship for whatever reasons she sees fit.
I can’t engage with MEZ for much longer either. Is there someone for whom this shit is less personally triggering who can step in and make the counterarguments?
No, you are not “literally crazy” as I defined. Unless you are a violent person that gets so tweaked out that you have bizarre delusions and beat your partners. Would you want to face such a person for someone not even committed to leaving? I’m not a bad person for not sacrificing myself for that shit.
Nobody needs to give you examples in which taking a break worked out in a way that you’re willing to sign off on in order to justify their desire to do so, or their support for someone else’s right to do so, you pushy asshole. This, right here, is exactly why you’re getting the negative responses you’re getting here.
Okay, I can’t with you. Maybe you should back off. Your opinions on catgirl’s life and choices have been noted I’m sure.
OK, I’ll try for a bit.
MEZ, you’re not getting it. The bottom line is, someone came in asking for advice, and described a situation with a boyfriend who was, at best, incredibly insensitive. This person then posted the decision to take a break. You then came in telling this person that it “takes two to argue” and to consider bf’s feelings. Really? This person just got up the courage to do what was best for herself and her mental state, and this is the advice you give? It’s condescending. It ignores the person’s own needs for bf’s needs. You might not have meant it that way, but that’s what it is.
Was this supposed to be an insult? No, everyone who is ever a jerk is not an abuser. But there is a world if difference between someone doing of saying something mean and then realizing they were wrong and apologizing and doing their best to make things better; and someone who is throwing up red flags. The bf wouldn’t refrain was using a slur that hurt, even after told that it hurts; and would ‘t “allow” her to take a break. These are warning signs. And we like cats, so telling us to enjoy them isn’t insulting.
You really have been hitting some MRA talking points, here. “Stringing a guy along.” “Crying abuse” – which is what you’re accusing us of, here, in that paragraph.
Quite frankly, you’re being an armchair psychologist and projecting your own situation onto a totally unrelated situation. Stop it.
@MEZ
Your use of the word “drama llama” is throwing a lot of people, I’ve never seen it used in a serious context like that. This paragraph works a lot better without it.
—-
I think you have a lot interesting advice that could be helpful if you were counseling an older acquaintance who’s in a long term relationship in a one-on-one setting. That’s not what’s needed here, Catgirl deserves support and some careful help parsing out the emotionally and psychologically charged conversations she just had with her boyfriend. It’s not our place to judge the long term overall health of their relationship, this isn’t couple counseling.
From what we know, I think her BF is emotionally manipulating Catgirl in hopes that she won’t break up with him. What his issues are doesn’t concern me because he’s not on this board asking for support. I just want Catgirl to know that she doesn’t have to ignore or devalue her own mental health and well-being in order to placate her bf. She can sympathize and care about him, but she shouldn’t ignore her feelings or stay in an unhealthily relationship because a break-up would make him feel bad.
The most important thing is that she should talk this through with her therapist and continue to discuss this with sympathetic family members and friends.
—
FYI, if you like anise you should try absinthe.
I missed this bit, now you’re just bring a dick.
I’m not triggered or anything, I just literally can’t think of a better way to put things than you all have been doing already. I certainly can’t think of a more effective way to explain things to MEZ.
And so far MEZ seems pretty unable or unwilling to take a step back and listen to anything anyone has told them for the last three pages.
After Cassandrakitty’s comment, I went back and re-read from catgirl’s first post and really think Sparky hit all the important points above. The “dramallama” stuff is, as brooked stated, terribly off-putting and is in almost every post. From almost the beginning, people were objecting to it, yet it keeps getting used.
And totally OT: but hurray! new job posting in my field! first one I’ve been qualified for in months! one I might actually have a chance of getting! It’s temporary, but I need to build up the resume.
Also this weird thing of making statements that aren’t clear (like the statement of being unwilling to get too involved with the family member’s situation, with no real details about what that situation looked like, or what exactly is meant by helping/not helping and what the implications of that decision would be), and then assuming that all of the info that wasn’t included must have been obvious to people reading, and then going “so you’re saying that I need to X” based on that. It’s not quite strawmanning in that I don’t think it’s deliberate, but it’s just as frustrating.
@ eli
Happy jobhunting thoughts being sent your way!
Not to mention the fact that “literally crazy” has to mean violent and dangerous and so Viscaria was wrong to call herself that!
Yeah, the consistent refusal to even consider anyone else’s perspective is a big part of what’s bothering me.
QFTing Cassandra (for like at least the third time this thread).
@cassandra
Ow wow somehow I missed that ‘when I want to be challenged I ask for advice’ bit. *gags* Do you want to know when I ask for advice MEZ? when I fucking want advice!
@kittehs
That is one dramatic kitty 😛
@Cassandrakitty
I can try (it’s not triggering for me) but I’m no so hot at picking out what is wrong w/ what MEZ is saying, just that a lot of it seems off.
@MEZ
Too bad. You don’t get to define what ‘literally crazy’ is. Words have meanings, having a mental illness is not the same as being violent, and mentally ill people already have to deal with enough shit. Cut your ableism out.
Dang, and missed MEZ’s alone with your cats shit. :/
@Eli
Congrats on your job! 😀
The “tweaked out” comment is particularly weird. Normally when you say someone is tweaking it means they’re on crack or PCP, and MEZ did say that the abuser of her family member is an addict. But I’m pretty sure there’s no DSM category called “crazy” that means “is violent because is tweaking on crack/PCP”. And everything that MEZ writes is like that, with things that are actually separate issues being conflated and a few offensive assumptions thrown in and an open refusal to listen to what other people are saying and take their perspective into consideration. Boundaries, what are those?