On Monday, Martin Luther King Day here in the United States, this was posted in the Men’s Rights subreddit, where, as you can see, it was quite popular with the assembled Men’s Rightsers:
How wrong is this? Let me count the ways.
1) It’s wrong because Men’s Rights “Activists” aren’t “warriors for peace,” or justice, or even for their own backwards notions of men’s rights. MRAs, like a lot of men insecure about their own worth, love to claim credit for the accomplishments of great men in the past (without accepting any responsibility for the terrible deeds of the terrible men who lived before them).
But even in terms of claiming credit where no credit is due this is especially ridiculous. Aside from a tiny handful of “fathers rights activists,” who’ve bizarrely chosen to try to advance their cause by vandalizing paintings and/or dressing up in superhero costumes and climbing up buildings, and one troubled man who killed himself in hopes that his death would spur other MRAs to acts of terrorism directed at courthouses and police stations, MRAs don’t risk anything with their “activism,” insofar as they engage in anything that can be called activism at all.
There’s nothing heroic, or risky, about posting anonymous rants online about how women are all a bunch of hypergamous bitches, or sending some vague threat to the feminist villain of the day.
Indeed, MRAs face so little risk that some are forced to invent stories of persecution — like John Hembling’s tall tale of being confronted by a mob of boxcutter-wielding feminists, thoroughly discredited by The Daily Beast — in order to cast themselves in the role of the persecuted victim-turned-hero.
2) It’s wrong because the person posting this message, and attempting to suggest some sort of link between the civil rights movement of Martin Luther King and the Men’s Rights movement today, is someone who also posts in the White Rights subreddit, a haven for the same sort of hateful white supremacists who hurled racial epithets — not to mention actual rocks and bottles — at King when he was alive.
When one Redditor pointed this out, and noted (correctly) that numerous white nationalists post in the Men’s Rights subreddit, they were quickly downvoted for their troubles.
The original poster explained that he only posted in White Rights about “real cases of white discrimination.”
Another poster offered an example of what he saw as one such case of “real” anti-white discrimination:
Yeah, that was totally a real thing.
3) It’s wrong because it’s wrong. As in, factually incorrect. Warren Farrell is talking out of his ass, again. Here’s a slightly longer version of his quote, which you can find on his web page. (It’s originally from The Myth of Male Power.)
Men are likely to be not only the warriors of war but also the warriors of peace. Almost all those who risk their lives, are put in jail, or are killed for peace are men. While some of the peace warriors—Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Dag Hammarskjold—are remembered, most are forgotten. Remember Norm Morrison?
Well, no, Warren, I don’t remember Norm Morrison. But I think you’re forgetting a few people too. Like half of the human race.
Women have been involved in peace and social justice movements as long as women have been active in the public sphere. Ever hear of Women Strike for Peace? Code Pink? At every large demonstration I’ve been at that has involved civil disobedience, I’ve seen both men and women arrested, with some of the women old enough to be grandmothers or great-grandmothers. The idea that women don’t put themselves on the line for peace or social justice is patently false.
This is really kind of basic stuff. But with MRAs, alas, you always need to go back to the basics.
But the post in the Men’s Rights subreddit was all about co-opting the civil rights movement, so today I thought I would remind anyone who might have forgotten — or who never knew — that it wasn’t just men who put themselves at risk in the struggle for civil rights.
You can click on the pictures for more information.
If only that were a real game …
Patterns? Patterns? What are these things of which you speak? 😛
It was only after I posted the embed that I noticed the piss-take at Shia LaBeouf at the bottom.
Fannie Lou Hamer stated that the use of women in protests during the civil rights movement was based on the knowledge that even the racist whites would have more restraint on them and she said that if her husband had done 1/3 of what she had done, he would be dead. The men’s lives were at greater risk. What gender is overwhelmingly shown on the lists below?
http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs
http://www.crmvet.org/mem/msmartyr.htm
@ Sam
You mean the white supremacists were racist AND sexist!? Nooooooooooo -_-;
@Sam
“Fannie Lou Hamer stated that the use of women in protests during the civil rights movement was based on the knowledge that even the racist whites would have more restraint on them and she said that if her husband had done 1/3 of what she had done, he would be dead.”
Gee, and what you think was the likely mental process going on in their heads?
a) “Women are precious and unique, we will not risk destroying such valuable members of our society, better direct our anger to the men since they’re all disposable”
b) “Women are fragile and devoid of agency, we should go easy on them and save our anger for the men in charge”
Mistaking paternalistic coddling for privilege, and ignoring the loss of agency that comes with it, is really old hat. Try coming up with something new.
“The men’s lives were at greater risk.”
At greater risk because of whom? Oh, would you have it, other men.
I’ve seen the police beat protesters and usually they beat up everybody who happened to be at that place in this very moment indiscriminately, men, women, old and young.
The notion that women have some kind of immunity vs violence at such events is as valid as the notion that women in general don’t take part in political and social events.
Sam, Farrell said that “almost all” of those who put themselves at risk, or who are arrested, or killed, for peace (and by this he clearly means in any movement for social justice, anywhere in the world, otherwise he wouldn’t have cited the names he did) are men. That’s patent bullshit.
He wasn’t talking only about those who were killed. And he didn’t just say that men were more likely to put themselves in risky situations, He said that ALMOST ALL of those who put themselves at risk OR who were arrested OR who were killed were men.
That’s just bullshit, and it reflects Farrell’s underlying misogyny.
You see the picture of the bus on fire I included in the post? There were both men and women in that bus when it was attacked by a white supremacist mob. They were equally at risk. It was a real risk. They could have been killed.
When I was looking through pictures for this post I also found one of a 15-year old girl who was knocked unconscious by a white bigot during a protest. Do you want me to post that too?
And, Sam, like vaiyt said, if you want to pat yourself on the back because you’re a man and men are the best warriors of peace. you need to also take responsibility for the bad things men have done. Take a look at the mob attacking the sit-in protesters in the first picture. Do you notice anything about them? Huh. They’re all men.
But, you know what, I don’t actually hold you responsible for what they did. Because that’s a little ridiculous. I also don’t give you any credit because Martin Luther King was a man.
Why exactly is it so important to you to pretend that women have never been heroes?
The fact is, history isn’t just made by men. Women are actors in history, for good and for bad. (Just as there were women in the front lines in the struggle for civil rights, there were women in the front lines opposing it — as you can see in that picture of Elizabeth Eckford on the first day of school.)
You’re really not going to be able to understand the world unless you can accept this.
And let’s not forget all the “comfort women” forced into sexual servitude, either. Many of them were literally raped to death.
Honestly, my sword-swinging Norse and Saxon ancestresses are all doing a collective facepalm at this “only deaths count, and the only deaths that count are male” bullshit.
About wars let’s not forget also who is left to pick up the pieces after each war and to rebuild the nations after the devastation. It’s predominately women who do this.
QFT and adding, as Freemage and I were discussing above, the women who were raped in #Occupy camps. Women who were there for the same reasons the men were, who were living in the same conditions, and who endured this violence at the hands of their fellow “warriors for peace”.
YES. You can’t talk about pretty much any war in history without talking about rape (of both civilians, who tend to be women, and enemy combatants, who tend to be men), but the “wah disposable male” brigade likes to pretend it doesn’t happen because it mainly happens to women (and frankly, because some of them are convinced that’s what women are for). Misters, read Le Ly Hayslip’s book about surviving the Vietnam war, then come tell us about how war is just so much fun for women.
Women serving history on the front lines, these spring to mind straight away:
– People’s Liberation Army
– Khmer Rouge
– Russian women’s battalions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_and_Soviet_military)
Wikipedia even has a page with updated information on women serving: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military_by_country
Gah, I edited my first line into oblivion, it should read:
For historical examples of women serving on the front lines, these…
I may be wrong, but I think Sam (like most MRAs) won’t rest until he gets us to admit that all men are awesome, while all women are terrible. (And stop trying to make him confront reality, because that’s misandry.)
Which is funny, because even though MRAs claim all feminists think women are superior to men, my position has always been that, as a feminist I don’t think women are better than men — we’re just not worse.
Women who were there for the same reasons the men were, who were living in the same conditions, and who endured this violence at the hands of their fellow “warriors for peace”.
Indeed, women often face a double violence front at such events. One from the official forces and one from men protesters around them. Just look at what is happening in Egypt, it’s a real disgrace. 60% of Egyptian men admit of harassing women, because they “deserve it” thats how ugly culturally promoted misogyny can be. I bet none of those MRA’s could even imagine for a second what it is like to have so many people wanting to inflict harm on you wherever you go and living under constant threat you every single day of your life.
I’d really like to know how many of these keyboard warriors have actually risked life and limb for a cause, or even turned up for one. Misters, I know it’s disappointing, but you don’t get to claim secondhand credit from the men who have done actual work.
“It’s not the tear gas or bullets women fear the most, it’s sexual assault and harassment.”
Really pathetic. And instead of addressing this problem some people try to hide and deny it. They remind me of certain groups…
Bingo. And they’re completely oblivious. They’re so busy lamenting the cannon-fodder males, who cares about the fuck-toy females? Oh wait, women are supposed to be disposable interchangeable walking talking Fleshlights…and if one dies, so what? She’s a whore, and good riddance. There’s more where THAT came from, and it’s all bad anyway! So goes the MRA mindset.
And then they wonder why we “fear male sexuality”. If this is “male sexuality”, I’d say we’re right to be afraid of it. But it’s not quite that…it’s male sexuality distorted by organized violence. A vital (and not terribly subtle) distinction which is lost on them, like so much else.
@Kiwi girl, not a pattern but I think my Google Kung Fu is pretty good. 🙂
http://newembroiderygroup.net/2010/05/07/a-knitted-throne-–-linda-litchfield/
Feminist Camille Paglia stated that there is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper. Men tend to exist in extremes and the bad things done by evil men have always been condemned. It is the gender ideologues born of modern feminism that has created a gender score card. Pointing out the enormous positives men have contributed to civilization is the natural response to a popular movement that has for decades demonized men and masculinity.
Also, I made no judgements regarding the motivations of white racists. I simply pointed out that the male activists were significantly at more risk than the female activists. No more, no less.
Men, as a rule, do not “tend to exist in extremes.” For example, let’s take Sam. Sam is akin to neither Mozart, nor Jack the Ripper. Sam is as dull as dishwater, and slightly less intelligent.
Also, there have been female composers arguably as talented as Mozart (and how many more would there have been, if women had access to the same education and mentorship as men?), as well as female serial killers.
Finally, Camille Paglia is a chucklefuck; anyone who takes her seriously has outed hirself as someone that I do not need to take seriously.
Seems like Farrell and yourself are the ones who like to keep score.
Anyway there is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Anna_Mozart> female Mozart .
Excuse my HTML fail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Anna_Mozart