On Monday, Martin Luther King Day here in the United States, this was posted in the Men’s Rights subreddit, where, as you can see, it was quite popular with the assembled Men’s Rightsers:
How wrong is this? Let me count the ways.
1) It’s wrong because Men’s Rights “Activists” aren’t “warriors for peace,” or justice, or even for their own backwards notions of men’s rights. MRAs, like a lot of men insecure about their own worth, love to claim credit for the accomplishments of great men in the past (without accepting any responsibility for the terrible deeds of the terrible men who lived before them).
But even in terms of claiming credit where no credit is due this is especially ridiculous. Aside from a tiny handful of “fathers rights activists,” who’ve bizarrely chosen to try to advance their cause by vandalizing paintings and/or dressing up in superhero costumes and climbing up buildings, and one troubled man who killed himself in hopes that his death would spur other MRAs to acts of terrorism directed at courthouses and police stations, MRAs don’t risk anything with their “activism,” insofar as they engage in anything that can be called activism at all.
There’s nothing heroic, or risky, about posting anonymous rants online about how women are all a bunch of hypergamous bitches, or sending some vague threat to the feminist villain of the day.
Indeed, MRAs face so little risk that some are forced to invent stories of persecution — like John Hembling’s tall tale of being confronted by a mob of boxcutter-wielding feminists, thoroughly discredited by The Daily Beast — in order to cast themselves in the role of the persecuted victim-turned-hero.
2) It’s wrong because the person posting this message, and attempting to suggest some sort of link between the civil rights movement of Martin Luther King and the Men’s Rights movement today, is someone who also posts in the White Rights subreddit, a haven for the same sort of hateful white supremacists who hurled racial epithets — not to mention actual rocks and bottles — at King when he was alive.
When one Redditor pointed this out, and noted (correctly) that numerous white nationalists post in the Men’s Rights subreddit, they were quickly downvoted for their troubles.
The original poster explained that he only posted in White Rights about “real cases of white discrimination.”
Another poster offered an example of what he saw as one such case of “real” anti-white discrimination:
Yeah, that was totally a real thing.
3) It’s wrong because it’s wrong. As in, factually incorrect. Warren Farrell is talking out of his ass, again. Here’s a slightly longer version of his quote, which you can find on his web page. (It’s originally from The Myth of Male Power.)
Men are likely to be not only the warriors of war but also the warriors of peace. Almost all those who risk their lives, are put in jail, or are killed for peace are men. While some of the peace warriors—Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Dag Hammarskjold—are remembered, most are forgotten. Remember Norm Morrison?
Well, no, Warren, I don’t remember Norm Morrison. But I think you’re forgetting a few people too. Like half of the human race.
Women have been involved in peace and social justice movements as long as women have been active in the public sphere. Ever hear of Women Strike for Peace? Code Pink? At every large demonstration I’ve been at that has involved civil disobedience, I’ve seen both men and women arrested, with some of the women old enough to be grandmothers or great-grandmothers. The idea that women don’t put themselves on the line for peace or social justice is patently false.
This is really kind of basic stuff. But with MRAs, alas, you always need to go back to the basics.
But the post in the Men’s Rights subreddit was all about co-opting the civil rights movement, so today I thought I would remind anyone who might have forgotten — or who never knew — that it wasn’t just men who put themselves at risk in the struggle for civil rights.
You can click on the pictures for more information.
Someone is seriously asking me to provide statistics disproving the claim that the vast majority, if not all, of the people risking their lives for civil rights were men.
I don’t…. I don’t even.
@Alice: tell them that since they are making the claim, the onus is on *them* to provide the statistics to back up their claim. Otherwise, it’s just assertion.
Also “risking their lives for civil rights” – what’s the operational definition of that phrase? There may be some bias against people who were more likely to be run out of town, or have their services ignored (e.g. shopkeepers, tailors, laundry people) so that they effectively ran the risk of starvation. Both groups should be considered as “risking their lives” but some people may be running with the definition of “on the battlefield”. If the latter, then the stats are stacked against women who were *prevented* from taking part, and it would be a damn stupid argument – it would be like arguing that humans were the ones who were the vast majority, if not all, of the beings who risked their lives in WWII. What were the damn penguins doing?
🙂
Charlie’s off to a hell of a start. Any more assumptions you’d like to share with the class, Charlie?
David, I think you were being unfair to Farrell by posting only a fragment of a quote there. Norm Morrison, as Farrell went on to say in the very next sentence, set himself on fire to protest the Vietnam War. It’s one thing to go to a protest, speak out, and even be arrested for speaking out against war. It’s another thing entirely to immolate yourself. In the same paragraph, Farrell also cites the example of a man who died laying on railroad tracks trying to stop trains that supplied bombs to the military. The point being made there was that, although both men and women can stand up for political causes, men are far more likely to sacrifice their lives – just as they are to sacrifice their lives in war.
Also, on a similar topic, you might enjoy this video by TyphonBlue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoRphmGrtn8
Game of Thrones? Leaping kitties? That is AWESOME! You’re right though, it would be a bit hard on the old bum.
And now I’m thinking a golden KNITTED throne, I mean I’ve heard tell of a golden fleece.
I think you’ve identified a gap in the knitting market. Get thee to Ravelry and design me that throne, I wants it, I wants it NOW!
Although, looking at that last sentence and all those capital letters, it’s clear that the very notion of a knitted throne has made me dizzy with power.
Crap, that last comment was to @Kiwi girl. On the upside blockquote monster was out of luck. 🙂
Everyone knows you’re not a REAL activist if you don’t die in the process. That said, what the fuck is Farrell’s excuse? Shouldn’t he be dead too, if all these dead men are so much more important than women who lived to protest another day?
(/sarcasm, for those who need tags)
I think that every time he asks for money he should post a pic of himself eating nothing but (cheap, packaged) ramen, to prove that he’s as dedicated to the cause as he expects his supporters to be.
You don’t come here often, do you?
Even assuming the many-worlds model of quantum physics, enjoying a TyphonBlue video is hard for me to imagine. Maybe if it were MSTed (MST3K reference).
“Enjoy” and “video by TyphonBlue” seem like mutually exclusive concepts. Even her voice is irritating.
I’m sure someone has already said this but… Gandhi based his methods, including hunger striking, on the work of the Suffragettes.
@ophelia, that would be an *awesome* throne. If someone could do a pattern, I could make it my project for the next 5 years (all my other projects are much smaller, and hidden in wardrobes). But actually, I would be totally into knitting one. Oh, and someone else has to do any fancy arigurumi/applique bits because I’m not good at the 3D shaping on those. A talent, like sewing, that has passed me by.
I don’t mean to sound too contrarian here, but I’m really, really not a fan of Ghandi. He supported the apartheid in South Africa and slept nude next to his own nieces as a way to test his ability to resist sexual temptation. There are plenty of activists who aren’t awful human beings and are much better than Ghandi.
@Ally, I read that bit about Ghandi sleeping next to naked women, but wasn’t aware it was (I assume younger) relatives. That’s even more icky.
I’m never exactly sure why some people do this to themselves: put temptation right there, to challenge their resistance to it. It’s such a bad idea. And if it’s not that tempting anyway, it’s not a true test of resistance, like if I was to give up gambling, drinking, meat, and smoking “for Lent”.
Speaking of which… having American hot dog with soy sausages for tea tonight. With spicy mustard as normal mustard here is a little bland. Even what they call “American mustard” – and because I don’t think I ever had mustard the times I have been to the US and Canada, I wouldn’t be able to tell its authenticity. However, I do prefer ketchup to tomato sauce now – I’m ruined as a true Kiwi for life (along with my not liking cricket).
Samantha Vimes: yet another user with a name I wish I’d thought of.
Enjoy Typhon Blue!
Sounds like something off one of those billboards I love to ignore. Drink Coca-Cola! Burma Shave!
In this case it’s more like “enjoy dysentry!””.
MRAs who wank about male soldiers dying in wars while completely ignoring the rape and murder of female civilians can go fuck themselves.
I’m not sure why they want brownie points for committing suicide? I suppose it’s better than killing other people, but I mean I would think more peaceful means of protest would be better. But, leave it up to the MRA to glorify violence in any form especially when perpetrated by a man.
@ Kiwi we do simply call it mustard here, I assume you mean the bright yellow stuff. It is pretty bleh. Have you tried honey mustard though? It’s pretty fantastic.
Why don’t MRAs complain about the class/race system that meant that the bulk of people dying in 19th century wars fought by western countries were in lower socioeconomic groups, and non-white? Male + privileged you were better off, unless you were a pilot. And that’s the reason that pilots and navigators are officer ranks in the Air Force, because of the class of males who were in those roles.
@cupisnique, these were the “American” mustards in the supermarket: http://www.countdown.co.nz/search-results?pagesearch_query=american+mustard We also have honey mustard and various others over here too, including English variations, and I also think honey mustard is particularly nice. I got a bit stuck on the best mustard to use with hot dogs.
Dinner was very nice.
Cor, I’m glad you’re volunteering to knit the golden throne, Kiwi Girl. My first reaction to the idea was “Don’t look at me!” 😛
@kitteh, yeah but someone else has to create the pattern. 🙂
@auggziliary: although MRA’s wouldn’t understand the mathematics of a zero sum game, to them it’s a throw-away statement. The only game theory any of them seem to be interested in is PUA crap.
I LOL’d at this, and no the game does not exist: