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all about the menz are these guys 12 years old? citation needed entitled babies facepalm hundreds of upvotes irony alert literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA narcissism oppressed white men playing the victim racism reddit warren farrell

Men’s Rightsers honor Martin Luther King by talking about how women totally suck at being “warriors of peace.”

Mugshots of Freedom Riders. Click on image for more info, and more pictures.
Mugshots of Freedom Riders arrested for protesting segregation. The Freedom Riders were often attacked by white mobs, with the complicity of the police. Click on image for more info, and more pictures.

On Monday, Martin Luther King Day here in the United States, this was posted in the Men’s Rights subreddit, where, as you can see, it was quite popular with the assembled Men’s Rightsers:

(quote from Warren Farrell) "Men are likely to be not only the warriors of war but also the warriors of peace. Almost all those who risk their lives, are put in jail, or are killed for peace are men." Happy MLK Day!!

How wrong  is this? Let me count the ways.

1) It’s wrong because Men’s Rights “Activists” aren’t “warriors for peace,” or justice, or even for their own backwards notions of men’s rights. MRAs, like a lot of men insecure about their own worth, love to claim credit for the accomplishments of great men in the past (without accepting any responsibility for the terrible deeds of the terrible men who lived before them).

But even in terms of claiming credit where no credit is due this is especially ridiculous. Aside from a tiny handful of “fathers rights activists,” who’ve bizarrely chosen to try to advance their cause by vandalizing paintings and/or dressing up in superhero costumes and climbing up buildings, and one troubled man who killed himself in hopes that his death would spur other MRAs to acts of terrorism directed at courthouses and police stations, MRAs don’t risk anything with their “activism,” insofar as they engage in anything that can be called activism at all.

There’s nothing heroic, or risky, about posting anonymous rants online about how women are all a bunch of hypergamous bitches, or sending some vague threat to the feminist villain of the day.

Indeed, MRAs face so little risk that some are forced to invent stories of persecution — like John Hembling’s tall tale of being confronted by a mob of boxcutter-wielding feminists, thoroughly discredited by The Daily Beast — in order to cast themselves in the role of the persecuted victim-turned-hero.

2) It’s wrong because the person posting this message, and attempting to suggest some sort of link between the civil rights movement of Martin Luther King and the Men’s Rights movement today, is someone who also posts in the White Rights subreddit, a haven for the same sort of hateful white supremacists who hurled racial epithets — not to mention actual rocks and bottles — at King when he was alive.

When one Redditor pointed this out, and noted (correctly) that numerous white nationalists post in the Men’s Rights subreddit, they were quickly downvoted for their troubles.

The original poster explained that he only posted in White Rights about “real cases of white discrimination.”

Another poster offered an example of what he saw as one such case of “real” anti-white discrimination:
MrArtless 3 points 4 hours ago (5|2)  How about after George Zimmerman, many Black people physically assaulted White people and cited the verdict as their reasoning? Those Caucasians were discriminated against because of their skin color.
Yeah, that was totally a real thing.

3) It’s wrong because it’s wrong. As in, factually incorrect. Warren Farrell is talking out of his ass, again. Here’s a slightly longer version of his quote, which you can find on his web page. (It’s originally from The Myth of Male Power.)

Men are likely to be not only the warriors of war but also the warriors of peace. Almost all those who risk their lives, are put in jail, or are killed for peace are men. While some of the peace warriors—Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Dag Hammarskjold—are remembered, most are forgotten. Remember Norm Morrison?

Well, no, Warren, I don’t remember Norm Morrison. But I think you’re forgetting a few people too. Like half of the human race.

Women have been involved in peace and social justice movements as long as women have been active in the public sphere. Ever hear of Women Strike for Peace? Code Pink? At every large demonstration I’ve been at that has involved civil disobedience, I’ve seen both men and women arrested, with some of the women old enough to be grandmothers or great-grandmothers. The idea that women don’t put themselves on the line for peace or social justice is patently false.

This is really kind of  basic stuff. But with MRAs, alas, you always need to go back to the basics.

But the post in the Men’s Rights subreddit was all about co-opting the civil rights movement, so today I thought I would remind anyone who might have forgotten — or who never knew — that it wasn’t just men who put themselves at risk in the struggle for civil rights.

You can click on the pictures for more information.

Protesters at a lunch counter sit-in at Woolworths in Little Rock, Arkansas, 1963, under assault from a white mob. The protesters were beaten, kicked, and burned with cigarettes. The assault lasted three hours, while police stood by.
Protesters at a lunch counter sit-in at Woolworths in Jackson, Mississippi, 1963, under assault from a white mob. The protesters were beaten, kicked, and burned with cigarettes. The assault lasted three hours, while police stood by.
Freedom Riders, after their bus was attacked and set aflame by a white supremacist mob near Anniston, Alabama, 1961
Freedom Riders, after their bus was attacked and set aflame by a white supremacist mob near Anniston, Alabama, 1961
Student civil rights protesters blasted with water hose by authorities, Birmingham, Alabama, 1963
Student civil rights protesters blasted with water hose by authorities, Birmingham, Alabama, 1963
Fire Hose 60s Civil Rights
Birmingham, 1963
Elizabeth Eckford, who volunteered to be one of the first black students to enter the formerly all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, on the first day of school in 1957
Elizabeth Eckford, who volunteered to be one of the first black students to enter the formerly all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, on the first day of school in 1957
Student arrested for trying to read a book in a "white only" library in Albany, Georgia, 1963.
Student arrested for trying to read a book in a “white only” library in Albany, Georgia, 1963.
Police arrest NAACP member Ruth Tinsley for protesting outside a Richmond, Virginia, department store, 1960
Police arrest NAACP member Ruth Tinsley for protesting outside a Richmond, Virginia, department store, 1960
Rosa Parks, being fingerprinted after refusing to give up her bus seat to a white man, Montgomery, Alabama, 1955. I assume even Warrenn Farrell has heard of her.
Rosa Parks, being fingerprinted after refusing to give up her bus seat to a white man, Montgomery, Alabama, 1955. I hope that Warren Farrell has at the very least heard of her.
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kittehserf
7 years ago

If only that were a real game …

Patterns? Patterns? What are these things of which you speak? 😛

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
7 years ago

It was only after I posted the embed that I noticed the piss-take at Shia LaBeouf at the bottom.

Sam
Sam
7 years ago

Fannie Lou Hamer stated that the use of women in protests during the civil rights movement was based on the knowledge that even the racist whites would have more restraint on them and she said that if her husband had done 1/3 of what she had done, he would be dead. The men’s lives were at greater risk. What gender is overwhelmingly shown on the lists below?

http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs
http://www.crmvet.org/mem/msmartyr.htm

fromafar2013
fromafar2013
7 years ago

@ Sam

You mean the white supremacists were racist AND sexist!? Nooooooooooo -_-;

vaiyt
7 years ago

@Sam

“Fannie Lou Hamer stated that the use of women in protests during the civil rights movement was based on the knowledge that even the racist whites would have more restraint on them and she said that if her husband had done 1/3 of what she had done, he would be dead.”

Gee, and what you think was the likely mental process going on in their heads?

a) “Women are precious and unique, we will not risk destroying such valuable members of our society, better direct our anger to the men since they’re all disposable”
b) “Women are fragile and devoid of agency, we should go easy on them and save our anger for the men in charge”

Mistaking paternalistic coddling for privilege, and ignoring the loss of agency that comes with it, is really old hat. Try coming up with something new.

“The men’s lives were at greater risk.”

At greater risk because of whom? Oh, would you have it, other men.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

I’ve seen the police beat protesters and usually they beat up everybody who happened to be at that place in this very moment indiscriminately, men, women, old and young.

The notion that women have some kind of immunity vs violence at such events is as valid as the notion that women in general don’t take part in political and social events.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

MRAs who wank about male soldiers dying in wars while completely ignoring the rape and murder of female civilians can go fuck themselves.

And let’s not forget all the “comfort women” forced into sexual servitude, either. Many of them were literally raped to death.

Honestly, my sword-swinging Norse and Saxon ancestresses are all doing a collective facepalm at this “only deaths count, and the only deaths that count are male” bullshit.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

About wars let’s not forget also who is left to pick up the pieces after each war and to rebuild the nations after the devastation. It’s predominately women who do this.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

The notion that women have some kind of immunity vs violence at such events is as valid as the notion that women in general don’t take part in political and social events.

QFT and adding, as Freemage and I were discussing above, the women who were raped in #Occupy camps. Women who were there for the same reasons the men were, who were living in the same conditions, and who endured this violence at the hands of their fellow “warriors for peace”.

And let’s not forget all the “comfort women” forced into sexual servitude, either. Many of them were literally raped to death.

YES. You can’t talk about pretty much any war in history without talking about rape (of both civilians, who tend to be women, and enemy combatants, who tend to be men), but the “wah disposable male” brigade likes to pretend it doesn’t happen because it mainly happens to women (and frankly, because some of them are convinced that’s what women are for). Misters, read Le Ly Hayslip’s book about surviving the Vietnam war, then come tell us about how war is just so much fun for women.

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
7 years ago

Women serving history on the front lines, these spring to mind straight away:
– People’s Liberation Army
– Khmer Rouge
– Russian women’s battalions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_and_Soviet_military)

Wikipedia even has a page with updated information on women serving: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military_by_country

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
7 years ago

Gah, I edited my first line into oblivion, it should read:
For historical examples of women serving on the front lines, these…

cloudiah
7 years ago

I may be wrong, but I think Sam (like most MRAs) won’t rest until he gets us to admit that all men are awesome, while all women are terrible. (And stop trying to make him confront reality, because that’s misandry.)

Which is funny, because even though MRAs claim all feminists think women are superior to men, my position has always been that, as a feminist I don’t think women are better than men — we’re just not worse.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

Women who were there for the same reasons the men were, who were living in the same conditions, and who endured this violence at the hands of their fellow “warriors for peace”.

Indeed, women often face a double violence front at such events. One from the official forces and one from men protesters around them. Just look at what is happening in Egypt, it’s a real disgrace. 60% of Egyptian men admit of harassing women, because they “deserve it” thats how ugly culturally promoted misogyny can be. I bet none of those MRA’s could even imagine for a second what it is like to have so many people wanting to inflict harm on you wherever you go and living under constant threat you every single day of your life.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I’d really like to know how many of these keyboard warriors have actually risked life and limb for a cause, or even turned up for one. Misters, I know it’s disappointing, but you don’t get to claim secondhand credit from the men who have done actual work.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

“It’s not the tear gas or bullets women fear the most, it’s sexual assault and harassment.”

Really pathetic. And instead of addressing this problem some people try to hide and deny it. They remind me of certain groups…

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

You can’t talk about pretty much any war in history without talking about rape (of both civilians, who tend to be women, and enemy combatants, who tend to be men), but the “wah disposable male” brigade likes to pretend it doesn’t happen because it mainly happens to women (and frankly, because some of them are convinced that’s what women are for).

Bingo. And they’re completely oblivious. They’re so busy lamenting the cannon-fodder males, who cares about the fuck-toy females? Oh wait, women are supposed to be disposable interchangeable walking talking Fleshlights…and if one dies, so what? She’s a whore, and good riddance. There’s more where THAT came from, and it’s all bad anyway! So goes the MRA mindset.

And then they wonder why we “fear male sexuality”. If this is “male sexuality”, I’d say we’re right to be afraid of it. But it’s not quite that…it’s male sexuality distorted by organized violence. A vital (and not terribly subtle) distinction which is lost on them, like so much else.

opheliamonarch
7 years ago

@Kiwi girl, not a pattern but I think my Google Kung Fu is pretty good. 🙂

http://newembroiderygroup.net/2010/05/07/a-knitted-throne-–-linda-litchfield/

Sam
Sam
7 years ago

Feminist Camille Paglia stated that there is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper. Men tend to exist in extremes and the bad things done by evil men have always been condemned. It is the gender ideologues born of modern feminism that has created a gender score card. Pointing out the enormous positives men have contributed to civilization is the natural response to a popular movement that has for decades demonized men and masculinity.

Also, I made no judgements regarding the motivations of white racists. I simply pointed out that the male activists were significantly at more risk than the female activists. No more, no less.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Men, as a rule, do not “tend to exist in extremes.” For example, let’s take Sam. Sam is akin to neither Mozart, nor Jack the Ripper. Sam is as dull as dishwater, and slightly less intelligent.

Also, there have been female composers arguably as talented as Mozart (and how many more would there have been, if women had access to the same education and mentorship as men?), as well as female serial killers.

Finally, Camille Paglia is a chucklefuck; anyone who takes her seriously has outed hirself as someone that I do not need to take seriously.

cupisnique
7 years ago

Seems like Farrell and yourself are the ones who like to keep score.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Anyway there is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Anna_Mozart> female Mozart .

cloudiah
7 years ago

cloudiah
7 years ago

I’ve just been down a delightful rabbit-hole, listening to women composers. Here’s another one:

kittehserf
7 years ago

I laughed at Sam’s quoting the idiot Paglia with her “no female Mozart” when there was, literally.

If you think Paglia’s any sort of feminist, Sammy, think again.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

Feminist Camille Paglia stated that there is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper.

There is no law that states that you have to have one to have the other, this is a random correlation trying to justify the false notion that what happened in the past was just the natural order of things and not the result of social order that could quickly be turned on It’s head given the right conditions. In the last 40 years alone we’re witnessing the male bastions of superiority falling one by one and that’s just a really short period and the changes will continue to unfold.

I don’t think anyone is demonizing men or masculinity per se but as you probably know absolute power corrupts absolutely and some things have to be adressed and corrected.

alternatesteve90
7 years ago

Not sure what else I can say that hasn’t already been said, except…..R.I.P. MLK Jr. You were taken from us all too soon; may your legacy live on forever.

cupisnique
7 years ago

LOL the “proof” is that the top composers are all male. Hmm wonder who’s making these lists, or who promoted/encouraged their pursuits in the past?

It couldn’t have anything to do with women being prevented from such things or when they did try not given the same opportunities. Nope, not at all.

fromafar2013
fromafar2013
7 years ago

From the Mozart Wiki:

“However, given the views of her parents, prevalent in her society at the time, it became impossible as she grew older for her to continue her career any further. According to New Grove, “from 1769 onwards she was no longer permitted to show her artistic talent on travels with her brother, as she had reached a marriageable age.”[1] ”

That makes me sad. Imagine all of the good things we missed out on because half of the human race was effectively silenced? It certainly makes me more appreciative of the fact that I have more opportunities, and more likely to take them when they do come my way.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

But guys, for every genius you have to have a serial killer (and one that specifically picks their targets for misogynistic reasons, too). It’s sciencey!

katz
7 years ago

Feminist Camille Paglia stated that there is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper.

…How do we know that Jack the Ripper was male?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Paglia is to scholastic excellence as McDonalds is to fine dining.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

That makes me sad. Imagine all of the good things we missed out on because half of the human race was effectively silenced? It certainly makes me more appreciative of the fact that I have more opportunities, and more likely to take them when they do come my way.

It’s really sad indeed and this thing keeps happening even today even thought it’s more subtle than in the past. I just read Christine Lagarde who said that she herself was strongly against quotas for women untill she experienced the discrimination herself.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Yeah, Camille Paglia’s “statement” is doubly idiotic.

And LOL at link to a bunch of famous white dudes (well, I do see at least one non-white non-male person is on the list).

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Paglia’s attitude towards masculinity is downright fetishistic. Which is fine, people are allowed to have fetishes, but basing your academic career on pretending that your fetishes are some sort of universal truth is a bit sketchy.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Also, I made no judgements regarding the motivations of white racists.

Yeah, who needs context?

I simply pointed out that the male activists were significantly at more risk than the female activists.

Your only evidence for which was “somebody said”. And evidence has been offered to the contrary.

And even if it’s true that men are more likely to die in activism, so what? The thesis of the OP is that women aren’t even out there marching, which even your paraphrased comment about “using” women in civil rights marches seems to contradict. So what, exactly, are you trying to prove? Do you even have a point?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

The idea seems to be that the cops are more likely to try to hurt male protesters (not necessarily true), which is the fault of female protesters/feminists/women in general because…it just is, OK? You’re all evil misandrists!

katz
7 years ago

It may not be the fault of the female protesters, but it’s certainly their duty to attempt to get hurt more.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Paglia, Christ. I guess it’s something that he didn’t bring up Dworkin, but Paglia? That woman gives me a headache.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Her writing always gives me that TMI feeling. Like, um, OK, thanks for sharing your sexual fantasies with the class, but maybe you should have asked if that would be alright with them first?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Just seeing stuff about Paglia quoted in the papers (which is mercifully rare here) makes me queasy.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Paglia is Queen of Assfax.

And the only one keeping a gender scorecard is Sam.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

Ally S
7 years ago

Feminist Camille Paglia stated that there is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper.

Camille Paglia is not a feminist. She’s a “dissident feminist,” which, as her work reveals, is really just a code word for “pro-patriarchy feminist.”

Men tend to exist in extremes and the bad things done by evil men have always been condemned.

This is a misleading description. Society has granted men agency, but that doesn’t mean they have often existed in “extremes.”

It is the gender ideologues born of modern feminism that has created a gender score card.

Translation: An analysis of how gender relations oppress women? Nah, you’re just a gender ideologue.

Pointing out the enormous positives men have contributed to civilization is the natural response to a popular movement that has for decades demonized men and masculinity.

More like “pointing out the good things that some men have done for civilization is a common silencing tactic used against a movement that has for decades criticized patriarchal norms that oppress women.”

Ally S
7 years ago

Also, really? All men who do evil things are condemned for their actions? You’re going to have to try to back up that sweeping generalization, you know.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

AllyS: Seems like these guys can’t track their own “logic.

“Women in general are terrible because of this in particular.”
“By that logic, men in general would be terrible because of that in particular.”
“WHY DO YOU BLAME ALL MEN!?!”
*facepalm*