This blog gets a lot of drive-by commenters, usually hostile, who drop one comment and then vanish, never to return. A lot of these comments are insults and one-liners, but a good number of these one-shot numbers, apparently seeking to maximize the impact of their one bit of input on this blog, deposit mini-manifestos setting forth their grand visions of what Men’s Rights stands for, why feminism is evil, or whatever it is that has them most riled up that day.
The most recent of these manifesto-droppers was a self-described Man Going His Own Way called Disgruntled, who set forth at some length his own rather punitive version of gender equality. It’s a rather revealing document, so I thought I would share it with you all.
Disgruntled started off by declaring that
I … demand increased equality among the 2 main genders and whatever additional gender-types have entered the fray
But his vision of equality is a rather blinkered one, to say the least. He singles out three areas in which men fare worse than women, and demands not that the suffering of men be alleviated — but that the suffering of women be ratcheted up to meet that of men’s.
He starts off with a reasonable enough request, one that is in fact supported by most feminists:
One demand I have is that females in the USA be required by law, as males are, to sign up for the military draft and to be subject to a draft if enacted.
Indeed, when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to include women. And given that women can now officially serve in combat in the armed forces, it seems likely that women will be included in registration as a matter of course.
Not that this is really much of a live issue, since the draft itself is dead and isn’t going to be resurrected in the forseeable future.
But Disgruntled’s next demand shows what his real agenda is:
To achieve parity I want the vast majority of draftees to be females until a general equality is attained with the numbers of dead and maimed males from past wars. To ease the determination I would start with World War 1.
That’s right: Disgruntled is calling for a government-sponsored lady-killing operation, one which would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of women, because women weren’t dying in combat during a period when they weren’t allowed to serve in combat.
Indeed, during World War I, when Disgruntled begins his program, they weren’t allowed to vote.
He’s not the only MRA to feel this way; A Voice for Men has advanced a similarly punitive, if less drastic, “solution” to gender inequality in the armed forces.
I should note that the period that Disgruntled is trying to make up for, the twentieth century and early twenty-first, was a century of mass carnage. The United States managed to escape the worst of that carnage; while we were involved in numerous wars and other military operations, no wars were fought on US soil.
This may have given Americans — and American MRAs in particular — a rather skewed vision of what war is. The vast majority of American casualties in twentieth (and twenty-first) century wars have been military personnel — that is, they’ve been overwhelmingly male.
But in fact, in most wars, civilians (male and female, adults and children) make up roughly half of all casualties, some dying as a direct result of military actions and some as the result of disease and famine. In World War II, last century’s bloodiest war, possibly as many as 2/3 of the total casualties were civilian. Men don’t have a monopoly on suffering in wartime.
After a brief mention of criminal sentencing disparities, Disgruntled moves on to another topic that is a favorite of MRAs:
Another life aspect is the woeful number of males maimed or dying performing the tasks that keep the USA operating on a daily basis. As a society we must do all we can to get females employed in those high-risk jobs that traditionally have high injury/death rates.
Again: the solution is for more women to die!
Interestingly enough, though MRAs talk about “getting” women into these professions all the time, the women who have tried to enter professions like coal mining have faced massive resistance, not from feminists trying to protect them from dangerous “male” jobs but from management — and the men in these jobs themselves. Women coal miners not only face the dangers of the job, but open hostility and sexual harassment from their male co-workers as well.
Now, a real men’s movement — one interested in actually helping men and not just in attacking women or gleefully imagining them getting their comeuppance by dying in war or in a mine collapse — would look at the reports of (mostly) men dying in accidents on the job and would, you know, ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.
It seems weird to have to point out that generally speaking real activists try to do something about the issues they care about, but in all my reading of the manosphere over the last few years I have not once seen any MRA actually attempt to examine why there are so many workplace deaths, much less ask what can be done about it.
Sure, MRAs complain about workplace deaths all the time, but simply as “proof” that men are the “disposible sex” and that women are a bunch of spoiled brats. Or, like Disgruntled, they use it as an excuse for elaborate fantasies of what Michael Kimmel calls “restorative, retaliatory” violence.
Do you want to know why there are so many workplace deaths?
Maybe it’s because companies that put workers at risk with serious violations of safety regulations get only a slap on the wrist from OSHA? The typical OSHA fine for a serious violation is $1700. Even if someone dies as a result of this violation, the maximum fine is only $7000.
Maybe it’s because so many employers put temporary workers in dangerous situations with inadequate training?
Maybe it’s because so many employers don’t give a shit about immigrant workers? As one recent report on preventable death in the workplace (from which I cribbed the above points) notes:
While the overall U.S. fatality rates for workers have gradually decreased over time (though they are still too high), the fatality rate for immigrant workers has increased at an alarming rate.
When you start looking into the details, you discover that workplace deaths happen for some pretty predictable reasons: companies try to cut costs by cutting corners, and regulators (deeply intwined with the industries they regulate) look the other way. And so workers — particularly more vulnerable workers like immigrants, temp workers, and young workers — pay the price, sometimes literally with their lives.
It’s a labor issue. A class issue. A race issue. And insofar as it’s a gender issue, it’s not feminists or “cultural misandry” that is to blame, but rather a patriarchal narrative that suggests that macho men don’t need to worry about following the rules (even if those rules are designed to protect your life), that stoic men shouldn’t complain about rough conditions at work.
How do you organize to fight this? You don’t yell about the “death professions” on the internet. You don’t fantasize about how great it would be if more women died in coal mines. You actually research the issue rather than reciting MRA slogans. You contact the people who are already working on the issue — mostly labor activists — and ask how to help.
And that’s the problem here. MRAs don’t want to help. They want to rage against women.
And so comfortable middle-class MRAs, whose jobs are as about as dangerous as the lives of my (indoor) cats, appropriate the real suffering of vulnerable poor and working-class men as an excuse to yell at women online and fantasize about their deaths — all while doing precisely zilch to help the men they claim to care so much about.
Hell of a civil rights movement you’ve got there.
@Argenti, just adding to your points. My understanding is that the female IQ range sits within the male IQ range. So while the highest IQs are for males, so are the lowest. The test, as implemented based on the one in the US, has a nasty racist and classist past, which I don’t believe has been completely removed.
Standard IQ tests also aren’t designed to test at the extremes – there are specialised IQ tests for that. And no IQ test is accurate to one IQ point.
This is totally anecdotal, but I had some fun with IQ tests in college (thanks to a friend being obsessed with them)… I scored between 104-127 depending on the test, how I felt that day or maybe even the moon phase, so nobody can tell me those things are in any way accurate. :/
Hey, somebody should perhaps let you know that you can’t win a game of chess by picking up the pieces and throwing them at your opponent. That’s how you idiots argue. So I just thought I’d give you some help with your reasoning skills.
Oh, btw. I see something about IQ and some poor sod scoring 104-127. Lol. I wouldn’t share that if I’d score that low. Not that I think much of IQ tests. Just a tangential remark.
But while you’re at it, you should try retaking some of the tests giving the same answers but swapping the gender. Quite a few will add a few points if you’re female. All to stroke the pathetic feminist ego.
Have a great day ^^
Cool story, bro.
I know it burns, coming over here as the big I-am with your supposedly oh-so-clever gotchas and getting your arse handed to you in a basket by a bunch of feminists. Look on it as character building. You certainly could do with some character. Regarding a debate about oppressions that people genuinely suffer as nothing more than an intellectual game of chess – not what someone with character does.
Oh, and reasoning – you might want to find out what that is, sometime.
That’s an IQ score in the upper half of the average range and I’m not afraid admitting being average. Also you completely missed the point why I shared them (hint it wasn’t to brag how smart I’m), which is either a bad attempt at trolling or a reading comprehension fail.
And most were NOT online tests but ones done on paper under human supervision and precisely one of them asked for my gender.
Uh, yeah, the online IQ tests that ask gender are the funsie sort, not the serious sort.
And he seems to have ignored the numbers I gave, or just not understand how bell curves work, seeing how Malitia’s scores are in range with 48% of the population, with 2%~ scoring higher than the high end of that range. So he wouldn’t mention his score if he was in the top half, only if he was nearly MENSA material.
Kiwi Girl — I think you’re right about the range of male scores, and yeah, agreed that they haven’t removed all the various bigotry induced biases.
Oh, hey, it’s lower than I thought. The MENSA cutoff on the Stanford-Binet test is 132, meaning if Malitia studied the questions, she might get in. But should be ashamed to not consistently score above that.
Hey troll? I do, and I still think using IQ is a biased useless measurement.
Question:
Why is the standard for women in chess tournaments separate and lower than men’s?
Wait, I know: Women are physically weaker and the pieces are too heavy for them to move. 😀
Try not to get too upset 😉
And kitt33’s goal posts switch seemlessly from the waltz into the quickstep.
Question:
When is kitt33 going to actually respond to people arguing with him?
Wait, I know: he doesn’t actually give a shit about arguing. He just wants to show off how much of Radical Non-conformist Anti-feminist he is and endlessly move the goalposts. 😀
Try not to get too upset, kitt33 😉
Ignoring the dancing goalposts:
If I remember that interview I saw with Hungarian chess grandmaster Polgár Judit some years ago correctly at least in her opinion it’s because of sexism and the fact thanks to that sexism less women play chess.
I distinctly remember her lovingly recounting how boys winning was attributed to superior manbrainz and her success to luck or that the guys let her win. :]
Pants on fire.
Others have addressed why your conclusion is flawed, but I’d like to point out the giant “if” in your original premise. Citation needed, friend.
What about morally?
Also, equality is not the same as sameness. No one is claiming that men and woman are exactly identical, but we WILL claim that difference is not grounds for discrimination or oppression.
U mad bro?
You’re literally having a conversation with yourself. Why are you doing it here?
Misogyny. Feel free to run with that.
Damn, I forgot my passive aggressive emoticon. The above should read:
“Feel free to run with that ;-)”
A score of 104-127 is not a low score on an IQ test. And if we’re talking about the WAIS, then really what that test is measuring is “school ability,” how well one does with school subjects. Verbal and spatial skills. Doesn’t measure logic, reason or success. Or ability to be right. But 104-127 is right where a person wants to be. Looking at that range, I’d say that person is perfectly capable of getting along well in school.
And again with the fucking hormones? Why do people think hormones are some kind of mind-controlling substances?
Another fucking non sequitur…do you even think before you write something?
How is this for a response:
Deer are notorious for eating meat when we are not watching them.
Well, -my- IQ is in the high 140s according to MENSA. I would still lose in chess to the average female player.
I’m bored with kitt33 – he’s admitted on the subreddit that he just drops his untruth bombs & runs away. And never reads the answers. It’s like having a bird fly over at irregular intervals & poop on the picnic.
Maybe he could make it regular like a timer. He’s certainly of no other use.
Hi all. How are you doing today? Still dreaming of female enslavement becoming a reality? You know, I don’t think that would be as nice as you imagine it to be, but never mind.
Anyway, time for another gender equivalent of showing a creationist a 10 million year old fossil and saying the world is older than 6000 years. Now try to concentrate:
I just wanted to tell you how much I LOVE being sexually objectified. It gives me power. I can go out and have a great time without spending a single penny except perhaps on getting there and still get drinks and meals. I get to feel wanted and desired which is a wonderful thing. I get to enjoy protection and care from others and all those things require nothing but a smile on my part.
Here’s a great video that settles a few things about objectification:
Remember, it’s just the truth. Not liking it, doesn’t affect its validity. You must hate that so much. Lol.
c ya ^^
Kitt has a high IQ? I never would have guessed.
I suspect kitt33’s IQ is like everything else – pulled out kitt33’s ass.
Damn vaiyt, I’m just barely over the MENSA cutoff (and meh to paying for membership, I’ve better things to worry about paying for, like more fry food for my baby fishies)
Barely related — I made to to level five French last night (I have no idea how many levels my app has) and with it the choice to do a lesson on animals, or food, my mother says to do food and then complains that I’m making her hungry >.<
When I was at college there were these terrifying carnivorous squirrels. Once they stole a whole raw chicken breast from a barbecue. Another time some students were teasing them and got pelted with bacon.
Yea with the French, Argenti.
Given that kitt33’s opening untruth bomb was how women are intellectually inferior, I’m suspecting kitt33 is not a woman.
But see, a fossil would be actual evidence.
A video restating your opinion? Not evidence.
Jumping up and down, shouting “I’m right! I’m right! I’m right!” doesn’t make you right.
No evidence means you are talking out your ass. Not liking that simple fact doesn’t change it’s validity. You must hate that so much.
Ciao, dunce.
@kitt33
I’m looking at the transcript again:
Straw man. Objectification doesn’t literally reduce people to commodities; it reduces them to less than fully human objects. It’s a form of dehumanization and actually denies value rather than assigns value to its target. So, the argument is a failure; sorry kitt33! 😛 😛 😛