This blog gets a lot of drive-by commenters, usually hostile, who drop one comment and then vanish, never to return. A lot of these comments are insults and one-liners, but a good number of these one-shot numbers, apparently seeking to maximize the impact of their one bit of input on this blog, deposit mini-manifestos setting forth their grand visions of what Men’s Rights stands for, why feminism is evil, or whatever it is that has them most riled up that day.
The most recent of these manifesto-droppers was a self-described Man Going His Own Way called Disgruntled, who set forth at some length his own rather punitive version of gender equality. It’s a rather revealing document, so I thought I would share it with you all.
Disgruntled started off by declaring that
I … demand increased equality among the 2 main genders and whatever additional gender-types have entered the fray
But his vision of equality is a rather blinkered one, to say the least. He singles out three areas in which men fare worse than women, and demands not that the suffering of men be alleviated — but that the suffering of women be ratcheted up to meet that of men’s.
He starts off with a reasonable enough request, one that is in fact supported by most feminists:
One demand I have is that females in the USA be required by law, as males are, to sign up for the military draft and to be subject to a draft if enacted.
Indeed, when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to include women. And given that women can now officially serve in combat in the armed forces, it seems likely that women will be included in registration as a matter of course.
Not that this is really much of a live issue, since the draft itself is dead and isn’t going to be resurrected in the forseeable future.
But Disgruntled’s next demand shows what his real agenda is:
To achieve parity I want the vast majority of draftees to be females until a general equality is attained with the numbers of dead and maimed males from past wars. To ease the determination I would start with World War 1.
That’s right: Disgruntled is calling for a government-sponsored lady-killing operation, one which would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of women, because women weren’t dying in combat during a period when they weren’t allowed to serve in combat.
Indeed, during World War I, when Disgruntled begins his program, they weren’t allowed to vote.
He’s not the only MRA to feel this way; A Voice for Men has advanced a similarly punitive, if less drastic, “solution” to gender inequality in the armed forces.
I should note that the period that Disgruntled is trying to make up for, the twentieth century and early twenty-first, was a century of mass carnage. The United States managed to escape the worst of that carnage; while we were involved in numerous wars and other military operations, no wars were fought on US soil.
This may have given Americans — and American MRAs in particular — a rather skewed vision of what war is. The vast majority of American casualties in twentieth (and twenty-first) century wars have been military personnel — that is, they’ve been overwhelmingly male.
But in fact, in most wars, civilians (male and female, adults and children) make up roughly half of all casualties, some dying as a direct result of military actions and some as the result of disease and famine. In World War II, last century’s bloodiest war, possibly as many as 2/3 of the total casualties were civilian. Men don’t have a monopoly on suffering in wartime.
After a brief mention of criminal sentencing disparities, Disgruntled moves on to another topic that is a favorite of MRAs:
Another life aspect is the woeful number of males maimed or dying performing the tasks that keep the USA operating on a daily basis. As a society we must do all we can to get females employed in those high-risk jobs that traditionally have high injury/death rates.
Again: the solution is for more women to die!
Interestingly enough, though MRAs talk about “getting” women into these professions all the time, the women who have tried to enter professions like coal mining have faced massive resistance, not from feminists trying to protect them from dangerous “male” jobs but from management — and the men in these jobs themselves. Women coal miners not only face the dangers of the job, but open hostility and sexual harassment from their male co-workers as well.
Now, a real men’s movement — one interested in actually helping men and not just in attacking women or gleefully imagining them getting their comeuppance by dying in war or in a mine collapse — would look at the reports of (mostly) men dying in accidents on the job and would, you know, ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.
It seems weird to have to point out that generally speaking real activists try to do something about the issues they care about, but in all my reading of the manosphere over the last few years I have not once seen any MRA actually attempt to examine why there are so many workplace deaths, much less ask what can be done about it.
Sure, MRAs complain about workplace deaths all the time, but simply as “proof” that men are the “disposible sex” and that women are a bunch of spoiled brats. Or, like Disgruntled, they use it as an excuse for elaborate fantasies of what Michael Kimmel calls “restorative, retaliatory” violence.
Do you want to know why there are so many workplace deaths?
Maybe it’s because companies that put workers at risk with serious violations of safety regulations get only a slap on the wrist from OSHA? The typical OSHA fine for a serious violation is $1700. Even if someone dies as a result of this violation, the maximum fine is only $7000.
Maybe it’s because so many employers put temporary workers in dangerous situations with inadequate training?
Maybe it’s because so many employers don’t give a shit about immigrant workers? As one recent report on preventable death in the workplace (from which I cribbed the above points) notes:
While the overall U.S. fatality rates for workers have gradually decreased over time (though they are still too high), the fatality rate for immigrant workers has increased at an alarming rate.
When you start looking into the details, you discover that workplace deaths happen for some pretty predictable reasons: companies try to cut costs by cutting corners, and regulators (deeply intwined with the industries they regulate) look the other way. And so workers — particularly more vulnerable workers like immigrants, temp workers, and young workers — pay the price, sometimes literally with their lives.
It’s a labor issue. A class issue. A race issue. And insofar as it’s a gender issue, it’s not feminists or “cultural misandry” that is to blame, but rather a patriarchal narrative that suggests that macho men don’t need to worry about following the rules (even if those rules are designed to protect your life), that stoic men shouldn’t complain about rough conditions at work.
How do you organize to fight this? You don’t yell about the “death professions” on the internet. You don’t fantasize about how great it would be if more women died in coal mines. You actually research the issue rather than reciting MRA slogans. You contact the people who are already working on the issue — mostly labor activists — and ask how to help.
And that’s the problem here. MRAs don’t want to help. They want to rage against women.
And so comfortable middle-class MRAs, whose jobs are as about as dangerous as the lives of my (indoor) cats, appropriate the real suffering of vulnerable poor and working-class men as an excuse to yell at women online and fantasize about their deaths — all while doing precisely zilch to help the men they claim to care so much about.
Hell of a civil rights movement you’ve got there.
Ah yes, the “two wrights make an airplane” method of Rectifying Past Injustices. I’m sure that in the same spirit of achieving parity, MRAs will a) volunteer to relive the experiences of civilian women in war zones, and b) agree to fork over collective pay differential between men and women over the last, oh, seven millennia.
I’m not sure there’s any way of evening out the stupid, though. MRAs are too far ahead on that one.
God, yes, this. It’s like people don’t understand that if you’re willing to risk your own life to get something you need, it’s sort of a big deal.
Thank you, we try our best.
They really didn’t think this through. I mean, if we did the same for government representation, there wouldn’t be another man in congress for the next 127 years (I.e, the date of the first IS congress until the election of Jeannette Rankin in 1916).
Hmm, not to mention the 19th Amendment didn’t pass until 1920, so 131 years where men wouldn’t be allowed to even vote…
If anything soldiers in war time are the best off, They have means to defend themselves, they are surrounded by buddies who are also armed and ready to defend them, and they are first in line for food and medicine. Even if civilians aren’t being murdered outright they often get robbed, driven from their homes and left to starve. Even when a warfighting government does try to minimize the civilian death toll, actually providing enough food, shealter and medicine for the refugees and people trapped in the warzone is a daunting task, and your typical dictator will see it as a low priority compared to winning, especially if the civilians are on the other side.
Skybison — problem there, soldiers actually in a combat zone are damned near as trapped as anyone else there. So yeah, access to great medicine, once they can be safely removed from the field. And food…one MRE is too much for me, the idea of living off them makes me gag. Better off than civilians in the area? Sure, but better off than people back home? Not so much (than the homeless and destitute perhaps, but the average person? Showers, hot food, not having to wait for a safe time to head for medical care [something people in developed non-US countries have as a damned near sure thing])
AIT — yep, I’m calling them a herd, but no chocolate for them please, dogs and cats can’t have it and I’d rather not risk it.
Oh, it must be 3 am, my fish filter is being cranky. Why does that thing always decide to have its issues in the middle of the night?
…never mind, the high pitch whirling noise is a computer can, not a filter motor
Yeah, but Argenti, the soldiers the MRAs are whining about are all USian volunteers fighting in someone else’s country. I think Skybison’s comment holds good, because none of them had to be in the army in the first place, not these days. And yes, shit being a soldier in a war zone, but nowhere near as bad as the civilians, and surely it’s “people in war zones” who are the valid comparison, not “people in safety at home”.
If that’s the comparison group, then yeah, I’m just recalling some of pecunium’s stories (even the funnier ones, like Irish Spring flavored ramen, because at least it wasn’t another MRE)
I’m sure these guys would, by this logic, also be ok with completely reversing any existing gender roles for the next century or so in order to even up things just a little bit.
Oh, and to ferry off white people to be sold as slaves in Africa. All that good jazz.
It’s only fair, right ?
Irish Spring flavored ramen or an MRE… decisions, decisions. Unless it’s the omelet, in which case pass the soap noodles. /shudder
@kittehserf
It’s not quite as voluntary as you’d think. When economic conditions are, to be polite, in the fucking shitter and you’re a 17 year old working class (or lower) kid being aggressively recruited by people who’ll lie openly about whether you’re going to get sent overseas to shoot brown people, and you have no other prospects, you sign up. A lot of my friends went into the National Guard and got sent over.
And the notion of a “combat zone” or “front line” is bull at this point. Everyone in country is at risk, men and women alike.
Point, Nepenthe, I was forgetting just how extreme the poverty gets in the US. It isn’t that bad here, yet, though the rich-poor gap’s getting bigger all the time.
Also in the late 90’s/early 2000’s, a lot of people joined the American military because it was peacetime and they didn’t anticipate that we were going to get bogged down in two endless wars.
LOL! Argenti…Yeah I wonder ..we had a 120 gallon salt water tank that “decided” its seam should leak in the middle of the night and when we woke and my husband stepped out of bed it splashed . About 90 gallons of water had emptied out onto the floors and had spread into two rooms. Yeah .. The carpets had to be ripped out ..and they had to set industrial sized fans in the house for 2 days to blow on the walls to prevent molding .
Fish tanks have a mind of their own .
Ack, your poor floors! How’d the fishies (and coral and whatnot if relevant) fare?
Argenti,
Don’t want you to think I forgot about the fishies!!! My husband rescued them and took them to his buddies that owned a salt water service company and had them babysit /foster the fish until we figured out to do . They survived. In that tank I don’t remember if he had any live rock . He had a lot of that in his in his reef tanks of course. This wasn’t a primarily reef tank.
Oh good, glad the fishies found a foster home until you got your tank sorted!
Zoon Echon Logon:
I think you’re right, in America’s political climate at the moment there would be insurmountable obstacles to my plan. Still, there are other places it might work.
Argenti Aerther said:
“Seranvali — I could totally get behind your forth point and might’ve actually finished my degree if I could’ve paid for it by, idk, something involving the movement of water (a topic I’ve learned a great deal about via trying to keep it off the floor…and sometimes failing miserably, ask me about assembling the fish tank sump sometime >.< ). And I'd totally be up for something medical, as long as I wasn't in charge of people's lives — be a gopher? Know what's needed and get it there? Deal with the basic first aid and refer the rest? Yeah, sure, I can totally do that."
That's what I'd be hoping, that this could give school leavers not only skills but enough money to help pay for further education. Too many people miss out on that when a relatively small amount of money would allow them to continue with it. Also self esteem. There's nothing quite like knowing that you have skills, networks and resources that may help others in a terrible situation. Especially if you use them. My idea would be that people could choose whatever gets them fired up. If, for you, that would be learning about the movement of flood water and how to move about in it so you could help rescue folks who are stranded or predict where the water would go that's extremely important, good for you and good for the community. If medical training was your thing, you might learn comprehensive first aid and triage nursing. If it was planning for these kinds of events and getting systems in place to get resources to those in need fast…well people wouldn't be waiting days for help to arrive. With enough people these kinds of things would make a vast difference in terms of lives saved.
It would cost money but I think in the long run, if all school leavers were included, to would be viable in the long term and you would have a veritable army of people ready, trained and willing to do what needed doing.
Well, this is depressing. What’s next? An euthanasia program to kill women as soon as they hit whatever the average male life expectancy rate is?
Why would they wait that long? Killing us all when we reach majority would probably suit them better.
Nah, at 25. Feeemales turn ugly at that age anyway, and are just a waste of oxygen thereafter. Or worse, SPINSTERS. I have it on good authority that a SPINSTER is the worst thing to be. IT’S A HORRIBLE EXISTENCE, DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH! With, um, DOGS taking WALKS.
Honestly, it’s taken me all weekend to catch up with all the threads! And I think I still missed a bunch of stuff.
The movie Winters Bone had one of the best illustrations of why a bunch of kids sign up for the Army without having any actual desire to be soldiers.
(In the movie the kid was turned away, but only because she didn’t have any parents available to sign the consent form they need if you’re under 19.)
18, not 19. I can type good, honest.