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A Man Going His Own Way offers a plan for gender equality. It involves killing hundreds of thousands of women

A woman at work. But shouldn't she be DEAD?
A woman at work. But shouldn’t she be DEAD?

This blog gets a lot of drive-by commenters, usually hostile, who drop one comment and then vanish, never to return. A lot of these comments are insults and one-liners, but a good number of these one-shot numbers, apparently seeking to maximize the impact of their one bit of input on this blog, deposit mini-manifestos setting forth their grand visions of what Men’s Rights stands for, why feminism is evil, or whatever it is that has them most riled up that day.

The most recent of these manifesto-droppers was a self-described Man Going His Own Way called Disgruntled, who set forth at some length his own rather punitive version of gender equality. It’s a rather revealing document, so I thought I would share it with you all.

Disgruntled started off by declaring that

I … demand increased equality among the 2 main genders and whatever additional gender-types have entered the fray

But his vision of equality is a rather blinkered one, to say the least. He singles out three areas in which men fare worse than women, and demands not that the suffering of men be alleviated — but that the suffering of women be ratcheted up to meet that of men’s.

He starts off with a reasonable enough request, one that is in fact supported by most feminists:

One demand I have is that females in the USA be required by law, as males are, to sign up for the military draft and to be subject to a draft if enacted.

Indeed, when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to include women. And given that women can now officially serve in combat in the armed forces, it seems likely that women will be included in registration as a matter of course.

Not that this is really much of a live issue, since the draft itself is dead and isn’t going to be resurrected in the forseeable future.

But Disgruntled’s next demand shows what his real agenda is:

To achieve parity I want the vast majority of draftees to be females until a general equality is attained with the numbers of dead and maimed males from past wars. To ease the determination I would start with World War 1.

That’s right: Disgruntled is calling for a government-sponsored lady-killing operation, one which would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of women, because women weren’t dying in combat during a period when they weren’t allowed to serve in combat.

Indeed, during World War I, when Disgruntled begins his program, they weren’t  allowed to vote.

He’s not the only MRA to feel this way; A Voice for Men has advanced a similarly punitive, if less drastic, “solution” to gender inequality in the armed forces.

I should note that the period that Disgruntled is trying to make up for, the twentieth century and early twenty-first, was a century of mass carnage. The United States managed to escape the worst of that carnage; while we were involved in numerous wars and other military operations, no wars were fought on US soil.

This may have given Americans — and American MRAs in particular — a rather skewed vision of what war is. The vast majority of American casualties in twentieth (and twenty-first) century wars have been military personnel — that is, they’ve been overwhelmingly male.

But in fact, in most wars, civilians (male and female, adults and children) make up roughly half of all casualties, some dying as a direct result of military actions and some as the result of disease and famine. In World War II, last century’s bloodiest war, possibly as many as 2/3 of the total casualties were civilian. Men don’t have a monopoly on suffering in wartime.

After a brief mention of criminal sentencing disparities, Disgruntled moves on to another topic that is a favorite of MRAs:

Another life aspect is the woeful number of males maimed or dying performing the tasks that keep the USA operating on a daily basis. As a society we must do all we can to get females employed in those high-risk jobs that traditionally have high injury/death rates.

Again: the solution is for more women to die!

Interestingly enough, though MRAs talk about “getting” women into these professions all the time, the women who have tried to enter professions like coal mining have faced massive resistance, not from feminists trying to protect them from dangerous “male” jobs but from management — and the men in these jobs themselves. Women coal miners not only face the dangers of the job, but open hostility and sexual harassment from their male co-workers as well.

Now, a real men’s movement — one interested in actually helping men and not just in attacking women or gleefully imagining them getting their comeuppance by dying in war or in a mine collapse — would look at the reports of (mostly) men dying in accidents on the job and would, you know, ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

It seems weird to have to point out that generally speaking real activists try to do something about the issues they care about, but in all my reading of the manosphere over the last few years I have not once seen any MRA actually attempt to examine why there are so many workplace deaths, much less ask what can be done about it.

Sure, MRAs complain about workplace deaths all the time, but simply as “proof” that men are the “disposible sex” and that women are a bunch of spoiled brats. Or, like Disgruntled, they use it as an excuse for elaborate fantasies of what Michael Kimmel calls “restorative, retaliatory” violence.

Do you want to know why there are so many workplace deaths?

Maybe it’s because companies that put workers at risk with serious violations of safety regulations get only a slap on the wrist from OSHA? The typical OSHA fine for a serious violation is $1700. Even if someone dies as a result of this violation, the maximum fine is only $7000.

Maybe it’s because so many employers put temporary workers in dangerous situations with inadequate training?

Maybe it’s because so many employers don’t give a shit about immigrant workers? As one recent report on preventable death in the workplace (from which I cribbed the above points)  notes:

While the overall U.S. fatality rates for workers have gradually decreased over time (though they are still too high), the fatality rate for immigrant workers has increased at an alarming rate.

When you start looking into the details, you discover that workplace deaths happen for some pretty predictable reasons: companies try to cut costs by cutting corners, and regulators (deeply intwined with the industries they regulate) look the other way. And so workers — particularly more vulnerable workers like immigrants, temp workers, and young workers — pay the price, sometimes literally with their lives.

It’s a labor issue. A class issue. A race issue. And insofar as it’s a gender issue, it’s not feminists or “cultural misandry” that is to blame, but rather a patriarchal narrative that suggests that macho men don’t need to worry about following the rules (even if those rules are designed to protect your life), that stoic men shouldn’t complain about rough conditions at work.

How do you organize to fight this? You don’t yell about the “death professions” on the internet. You don’t fantasize about how great it would be if more women died in coal mines. You actually research the issue rather than reciting MRA slogans. You contact the people who are already working on the issue — mostly labor activists — and ask how to help.

And that’s the problem here. MRAs don’t want to help. They want to rage against women.

And so comfortable middle-class MRAs, whose jobs are as about as dangerous as the lives of my (indoor) cats, appropriate the real suffering of vulnerable poor and working-class men as an excuse to yell at women online and fantasize about their deaths — all while doing precisely zilch to help the men they claim to care so much about.

Hell of a civil rights movement you’ve got there.

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Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
10 years ago

Again with this bullshit premise that women and children don’t die in war. Civilians die in war, you fucking MRA morons!! They always have and they still do now. And now we have drones and bombs to kill them.

dallasapple
dallasapple
10 years ago

This would be like black people ,when seeking equality to achieve parity ,demanded that the vast majority of white people be enslaved for the next 100 years then set free in poverty to work their way back up and even out the playing field .

Even though women not dying overseas in combat over our longer term history is not something women did to men . (like white people did to balks)And its not even taking into account that not as many women died but their fathers,husbands, and sons did .

On a related note one of their beefs for some reason against women ,and another claim that feminist are not really about equality of the genders. Is that more men commit suicide than women .I mean really more men take their OWN lives and somehow that’s a gender “inequality” that is the responsibility of women ? Because that’s where it ends. No discussion on the the various reasons WHY men are more likely to end their own lives due to depression and what MEN’s rights activist are going to do about it. .Just angriness at women. .

What are women supposed to do to “equalize” that ? Go ahead and kill herself if she has suicidal urges rather than seek help and support to do her part for equality for men ? Encourage other women to because we need to even that out ?

dallasapple
dallasapple
10 years ago

blacks not “balks” .

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
10 years ago

These guys have indeed a very unrealistic idea of war, they can’t even imagine how many civilians die in wars, especially the civilians who are the most defenceless, for them apparently wars are taking place in another dimension. Just like they have those ideas that in the past only men worked while women were supposedly resting at home which has never been true for most of humanity, in the past everybody worked hard physically demanding jobs, including children. How can you argue with people who only see themselves and nothing else.

shayla
shayla
10 years ago

(warning for offensive statements on suicide and detailed discussion of suicide)

On a related note one of their beefs for some reason against women ,and another claim that feminist are not really about equality of the genders. Is that more men commit suicide than women .I mean really more men take their OWN lives and somehow that’s a gender “inequality” that is the responsibility of women ?

Yep… and even then, the fact they are leaving out is that more women attempt suicide, men are just more likely to complete the act. Every time I’ve brought this up to an MRA the reaction wasn’t “oh I didn’t know, wonder why women’s suicide attempts are so high” or even “oh I wonder why male suicides are more violent, what can we do about this” but instead: either “lol women even suck at suicide!” or “well this just proves women only attempt suicide for attention because they’re attention [hogs]!”

Gee, couldn’t be that men have better access to/familiarity with firearms and other deadly means while women tend to choose poisons, it couldn’t be that we could help men (and women too eww!) by working to destigmatize the act of seeking mental help, it couldn’t be that we’d help everyone by calling for better nationwide access to those same services. It couldn’t be that disproportionate numbers of those suicides, suicide attempts, and ideations are clustered among American Indian/Alaskan Native men (2nd leading cause of death for that group), rural poor people & ag workers (more likely than urban people), elderly men (the vast majority of male suicides), young black men (rates increasing much faster than for young white men), gay men (6x more likely than heterosexual men), bisexual men (1 in 3), and trans* men (a staggering 41% for all trans* people) and those groups need special focus and support for their unique issues. But something tells me MRAs are more interested in actively oppressing or just ignoring all those groups.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

Shorter MRAs: Men have higher rates of workplace injury and death! This is an injustice, and we demand MOAR injustice to fix it! KILL ALL TEH WIMMINZ!

Ally S
10 years ago

Shayla, your first link is broken. 🙁

shayla
shayla
10 years ago

Oops, so it is! Let me try that first link again: Gender differences in suicide. If it still doesn’t work, enter “Gender differences in suicide” into Wikipedia.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

MRAs remind me of the weird “egalitarian” society of Kurt Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron”, where people were made superficially “equal” by physically hampering them according to their degree of fitness. It wasn’t a mockery of socialism, but a satire on how Americans see socialism. Real socialists (like feminists) want to equalize up. MRAs want to bring everybody down.

Caroline Not-So-Sweet
Caroline Not-So-Sweet
10 years ago

Thanks for the info on suicide, Shayla. Sadly, suicide is more prevalent in women in third world countries like India, where there are arranged marriages and sexual abuse/rape goes unpunished. A lot of young women there feel they have no choice but to take their own lives to escape horrible situations.
This video, by Canadian comedian Jon LaJoie isn’t aimed specifically at the Manosphere, but it perfectly describes the attitudes of its members:

I think LaJoie’s hair looks a little like Roosh’s.

shayla
shayla
10 years ago

Thanks for the info on suicide, Shayla. Sadly, suicide is more prevalent in women in third world countries like India, where there are arranged marriages and sexual abuse/rape goes unpunished. A lot of young women there feel they have no choice but to take their own lives to escape horrible situations.

Right, good to point out, my stats were mainly US-focused — looking at worldwide rates is yet another dimension to consider. In short, the cause of male suicide is multifaceted but it certainly isn’t “because feminists somehow” or “mean girls turning men down” and the answer, shockingly, isn’t “make sure women stay under the boot”!

Skye
Skye
10 years ago

I would like to point out that laws forcing companies have safer working conditions are put in place and enforced by government organizations, which MRA/MRMs are usually calling “government make work jobs” for women who clearly can’t do anything else

Also unions & social justice groups are often derided by MRA/MRMs

cupisnique
10 years ago

Caroline Not-So-Sweet

That music video is so ridiculous! lol It was kinda catchy too.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
10 years ago

I like how in the most dangerous male-dominated job, the risk is from mechanical failure/a tree falling on you. And in the most dangerous female dominated jobs the risk is being raped and murdered…. by a man.

Ladies, we’re just so damn lucky.

nora
nora
10 years ago

At least these MRAs will be single for their whole entire lives, so they need not worry about any kind of attention from a woman. Which perhaps is why they are MRAs in the first place? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Also there are more slaves today than any other time in HISTORY, and they are women and children in the sex SLAVE industry. Thanks to MRAs who keep the business alive and thriving… So hows this for equality, lets round up a bunch of MRAs, chain them to a wall in a go go bar in Thailand and let some fine young women and children sodomize them with massive diseased dildos. “Thats equality baby!”

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

OT, but I just wanted to say that you are one of the most welcoming bunch I’ve ever come across. Thank you.

Robert Ramirez
10 years ago

In all equity I want to see some men die in child birth.

katz
10 years ago

OT, but I just wanted to say that you are one of the most welcoming bunch I’ve ever come across. Thank you.

What are you talking about? Everyone knows we’re a bunch of mean, cliquish assholes who love ganging up on new people.

dallasapple
dallasapple
10 years ago

Whenever I see this sort of stupidity, it becomes pretty obvious that these people have no empathy. Like the idea of empathy is actually foreign to them. They can’t fake it or even *try* to do a good fake.
This kitty gets it:

Aggziliary,

Adorable kitty !

I just wanted to say they are worse than no empathy .I think they are filled with hate with no empathy for the ones they hate .Which is a group ,called women .

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

Katz-
Sorry, misspoke. I meant you are the most welcoming bunch of mean, cliquish assholes I’ve come across. Thanks for pointing that out 🙂

kittehserf
10 years ago

GillieMimosa – it’s a talent. 😀

dallasapple
dallasapple
10 years ago

Gee, couldn’t be that men have better access to/familiarity with firearms and other deadly means while women tend to choose poisons,

I’ll have to find some info. but there is more than one reason I think why women attempt and fail .
One is she will choose less final methods and yes in hopes she is found .Its not for “attention ” its called a cry for help” . Which is one of the reasons men are more successful they are resistant to ask for help .Maybe they are afraid they will be mocked like they do women for “seeking attention ” or called an idiot because they failed ???

“lol women even suck at suicide!”

Yeah …No women who do successfully commit suicide the main method is a firearm same as men . Women aren’t to stupid to know how to commit suicide.

catgirl
catgirl
10 years ago

I fecking love the manboobz comment section. You guys Makemy day. Every day.

Karalora
Karalora
10 years ago

@dallasapple

And even if a suicide attempt is a bid for “attention,” if someone feels so desperately deprived of attention – also known as human contact – that they’re willing to try killing themselves over it…shouldn’t they, you know, get it?

dallasapple
dallasapple
10 years ago

And even if a suicide attempt is a bid for “attention,” if someone feels so desperately deprived of attention – also known as human contact – that they’re willing to try killing themselves over it…shouldn’t they, you know, get it?

Yes that’s the point . Its the woman saying she doesn’t really want to die she want’s solutions /changes .But her attempts are considered serious. As they should .Just because her death wasn’t instant doesn’t mean her attempt isn’t life threatening. Also women are more likely to not use deadliest force because they will tend to think a lot heavier and longer about the impact her death will have on others .

Calling it “only trying to get attention ” like she is just throwing a temper tantrum is really really sad.And its wrong . Saying women are to stupid to know how to do suicide right is also ignorant.

I have a relative who has seriously tired suicide twice. Once she drove herself off a small cliff and ended up hospitalized for 6 weeks with a broken pelvis ,colorbone and ankles .And of cure and severe consussion she lived. I wouldn’t say “you’re to stupid to even know how to do suicide right ! Just get a gun and shoot your self in the heart .That’s do it !Unless you are just wanting “attention .” Another time pill overdose .But the amount she took even though she tried to lie and say she wansn’t trying ? It was too obvious. Some weren’t even digested yet in her stomach by the time she lost conciousness. By the time paramedics arrived she stopped breathing in the ambulance her heart stopped twice .They revived her .She was unconscious for about 5 days though . I wouldn’t tell her again DUH ! Shut SHOOT your self! Really if that’s what you REALLY want ! In the meantime you are just a brat seeking attention!

ARGHHH!!!!