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A Man Going His Own Way offers a plan for gender equality. It involves killing hundreds of thousands of women

A woman at work. But shouldn't she be DEAD?
A woman at work. But shouldn’t she be DEAD?

This blog gets a lot of drive-by commenters, usually hostile, who drop one comment and then vanish, never to return. A lot of these comments are insults and one-liners, but a good number of these one-shot numbers, apparently seeking to maximize the impact of their one bit of input on this blog, deposit mini-manifestos setting forth their grand visions of what Men’s Rights stands for, why feminism is evil, or whatever it is that has them most riled up that day.

The most recent of these manifesto-droppers was a self-described Man Going His Own Way called Disgruntled, who set forth at some length his own rather punitive version of gender equality. It’s a rather revealing document, so I thought I would share it with you all.

Disgruntled started off by declaring that

I … demand increased equality among the 2 main genders and whatever additional gender-types have entered the fray

But his vision of equality is a rather blinkered one, to say the least. He singles out three areas in which men fare worse than women, and demands not that the suffering of men be alleviated — but that the suffering of women be ratcheted up to meet that of men’s.

He starts off with a reasonable enough request, one that is in fact supported by most feminists:

One demand I have is that females in the USA be required by law, as males are, to sign up for the military draft and to be subject to a draft if enacted.

Indeed, when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to include women. And given that women can now officially serve in combat in the armed forces, it seems likely that women will be included in registration as a matter of course.

Not that this is really much of a live issue, since the draft itself is dead and isn’t going to be resurrected in the forseeable future.

But Disgruntled’s next demand shows what his real agenda is:

To achieve parity I want the vast majority of draftees to be females until a general equality is attained with the numbers of dead and maimed males from past wars. To ease the determination I would start with World War 1.

That’s right: Disgruntled is calling for a government-sponsored lady-killing operation, one which would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of women, because women weren’t dying in combat during a period when they weren’t allowed to serve in combat.

Indeed, during World War I, when Disgruntled begins his program, they weren’t  allowed to vote.

He’s not the only MRA to feel this way; A Voice for Men has advanced a similarly punitive, if less drastic, “solution” to gender inequality in the armed forces.

I should note that the period that Disgruntled is trying to make up for, the twentieth century and early twenty-first, was a century of mass carnage. The United States managed to escape the worst of that carnage; while we were involved in numerous wars and other military operations, no wars were fought on US soil.

This may have given Americans — and American MRAs in particular — a rather skewed vision of what war is. The vast majority of American casualties in twentieth (and twenty-first) century wars have been military personnel — that is, they’ve been overwhelmingly male.

But in fact, in most wars, civilians (male and female, adults and children) make up roughly half of all casualties, some dying as a direct result of military actions and some as the result of disease and famine. In World War II, last century’s bloodiest war, possibly as many as 2/3 of the total casualties were civilian. Men don’t have a monopoly on suffering in wartime.

After a brief mention of criminal sentencing disparities, Disgruntled moves on to another topic that is a favorite of MRAs:

Another life aspect is the woeful number of males maimed or dying performing the tasks that keep the USA operating on a daily basis. As a society we must do all we can to get females employed in those high-risk jobs that traditionally have high injury/death rates.

Again: the solution is for more women to die!

Interestingly enough, though MRAs talk about “getting” women into these professions all the time, the women who have tried to enter professions like coal mining have faced massive resistance, not from feminists trying to protect them from dangerous “male” jobs but from management — and the men in these jobs themselves. Women coal miners not only face the dangers of the job, but open hostility and sexual harassment from their male co-workers as well.

Now, a real men’s movement — one interested in actually helping men and not just in attacking women or gleefully imagining them getting their comeuppance by dying in war or in a mine collapse — would look at the reports of (mostly) men dying in accidents on the job and would, you know, ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

It seems weird to have to point out that generally speaking real activists try to do something about the issues they care about, but in all my reading of the manosphere over the last few years I have not once seen any MRA actually attempt to examine why there are so many workplace deaths, much less ask what can be done about it.

Sure, MRAs complain about workplace deaths all the time, but simply as “proof” that men are the “disposible sex” and that women are a bunch of spoiled brats. Or, like Disgruntled, they use it as an excuse for elaborate fantasies of what Michael Kimmel calls “restorative, retaliatory” violence.

Do you want to know why there are so many workplace deaths?

Maybe it’s because companies that put workers at risk with serious violations of safety regulations get only a slap on the wrist from OSHA? The typical OSHA fine for a serious violation is $1700. Even if someone dies as a result of this violation, the maximum fine is only $7000.

Maybe it’s because so many employers put temporary workers in dangerous situations with inadequate training?

Maybe it’s because so many employers don’t give a shit about immigrant workers? As one recent report on preventable death in the workplace (from which I cribbed the above points)  notes:

While the overall U.S. fatality rates for workers have gradually decreased over time (though they are still too high), the fatality rate for immigrant workers has increased at an alarming rate.

When you start looking into the details, you discover that workplace deaths happen for some pretty predictable reasons: companies try to cut costs by cutting corners, and regulators (deeply intwined with the industries they regulate) look the other way. And so workers — particularly more vulnerable workers like immigrants, temp workers, and young workers — pay the price, sometimes literally with their lives.

It’s a labor issue. A class issue. A race issue. And insofar as it’s a gender issue, it’s not feminists or “cultural misandry” that is to blame, but rather a patriarchal narrative that suggests that macho men don’t need to worry about following the rules (even if those rules are designed to protect your life), that stoic men shouldn’t complain about rough conditions at work.

How do you organize to fight this? You don’t yell about the “death professions” on the internet. You don’t fantasize about how great it would be if more women died in coal mines. You actually research the issue rather than reciting MRA slogans. You contact the people who are already working on the issue — mostly labor activists — and ask how to help.

And that’s the problem here. MRAs don’t want to help. They want to rage against women.

And so comfortable middle-class MRAs, whose jobs are as about as dangerous as the lives of my (indoor) cats, appropriate the real suffering of vulnerable poor and working-class men as an excuse to yell at women online and fantasize about their deaths — all while doing precisely zilch to help the men they claim to care so much about.

Hell of a civil rights movement you’ve got there.

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Shaenon
10 years ago

It may be worth pointing out that, although unsafe working conditions are a serious problem, in the U.S. the number of workplace fatalities is low and has been falling steadily over the past century. Thanks to federal safety regulations, for example, coal mining deaths dropped from over 2,000 in 1912 to just 20 in 2012. The majority of workplace fatalities in the U.S. come not from risky site conditions, but from traffic accidents (truckers and taxi drivers often die on the job) or violent assaults, especially shootings.

That said, workplace safety laws are currently under attack by proponents of corporate deregulation. Or, as this Lawyers, Guns and Money post points out, if you care about dead coal miners, do not under any circumstances vote for Rand Paul.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/coal-mining-deaths-1900-2012

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

The whole MRA argument is boringly circular anyways:
1. Complain that women don’t do traditionally male jobs.
2. Whine that, in some cases, preconditions *that aren’t actually a good measure of what’s required on the job* are amended so that women aren’t arbitrarily excluded. Include whining to, and strong-arming, the union to support the sexist conditions.
3. For the women who do actually make up, basically do frat boy hazing to them for most of their careers. For a number of women, their careers in those fields will be short.
4. Profit!

Except, I’m not sure what profit equals. Maybe it’s the ability to keep whining.

kittehserf
10 years ago

GillieMimosa – knowing about debate about women in the ADF! 😀

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI

*ahem*

AIT
AIT
10 years ago

(This is AIT talking, not the USAF)

I’d also rather selective service were either all-encompassing or not at all, preferably not at all. Really, I’m not sure why we keep it. We have enough volunteer soldiers that we’re having to turn up the requirements to get in, and to stay in as well. I could also see actually instating the draft in our time to be political suicide.

I don’t have much to say that hasn’t already been said on the issue of kill more people versus actually fix the problems.

Kiwi Girl:

You forgot a step. Step 4: ???????

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

@AIT maybe it’s the step where we sit around and eat bon bons while waiting for our scented candles to finish drying.

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

@Kiwi girl I actually made scented candles for Christmas gifts last year. Misandry lives through me!

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

@kittehsef That whole period after the Skype sex scandal made me so proud to be Australian. Like winning the Ashes x 9000 /sarcasm

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
10 years ago

I think this is the line of logic and the biggest contradiction that pisses me off the most about the MRA mindset. (Aside from the ‘woman control everything, but are too incompetent to do anything somehow.’)

They can’t seem to choose between woman needing to work dangerous jobs so everything is fair, (which is wrong because woman WOULD and DO work dangerous jobs, and would do so MORE OFTEN if people would stop getting in our way.) And the other equally stupid Idea that woman CANT work dangerous jobs because some bs about upper body strength. (Like The difference can’t be made up, at all, ever, for some reason. and like modern tools don’t exist.)

So.. should we work the jobs for ‘true equality’ like many MRA like to pretend we woman don’t ‘really’ want, even though we do, OR do we not work the jobs because they think we have some biological inability to ever get any amount of body strength?

Plus, the mansplaning is strong either way. “No, you feminists/women don’t actually believe in equality. you believe in getting benefits! Even if you show me proof that Feminists have ALWAYS wanted woman to be eligible for dangerous work!” Or the equally mind numbing “Woman cant do this and this because I said so, because obviously feminists/woman don’t want to be held to the same standards, even if you continually say you want to be put to the same standards! Because I know how the woman mind works!”

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

“Nothing on how to avoid the wrath of the blockquote monster, though. Nobody’s figured that one out.”

It’s true. I can write the guide on how to use ’em, but I can’t avoid the monster (though the autocorrect evil genie gets me far more often!)

Seranvali — I could totally get behind your forth point and might’ve actually finished my degree if I could’ve paid for it by, idk, something involving the movement of water (a topic I’ve learned a great deal about via trying to keep it off the floor…and sometimes failing miserably, ask me about assembling the fish tank sump sometime >.< ). And I'd totally be up for something medical, as long as I wasn't in charge of people's lives — be a gopher? Know what's needed and get it there? Deal with the basic first aid and refer the rest? Yeah, sure, I can totally do that.

And count me among those who totally support more work place safety laws and better enforcement as well as the draft either being gender neutral or nonexistent.

In other things, apparently my shitty wrist has gotten shitty enough that sewing gets painful long before being a human pincushion gets annoying. I am Not Pleased. Trying to make myself a cable organizer cuz I get covered in cables when going into my emergency kit (what, I consider a lack of charging cables an emergency!)

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
10 years ago

Thinking on it, im sure it ties into Entitlement. MRA seem to be under some kind of strange idea that you ‘inherit’ rights. For example, they seem to think that since men did stuff in the past. (invent things, work hard jobs, yada yadda.) that the current men of this generation, even ones who have never worked a hard day in their life, somehow more prestigious then woman. (who according to MRA logic, has never done anything despite all those times woman have done things.)

Obviously, this line of noxiously stupid logic is not really workable. How are woman supposed to ‘prove’ their worth if you will not give them a chance to prove themselves, because you assume they have never contributes anything ever? And why are we assuming that because men in the past were so ‘amazing’ that all men are somehow within their ‘right’ to work dangerous work?

When I look at it like that, it becomes apparent why they seem to think a whole bunch of woman have to die first, because they assume we have to ‘make up’ for all of our time being ‘protected and cared for’ or some shit. Mind that these are often the same guys who *IMMEDIATLY* Whine and yell at people for ever daring to suggest that men ever held an advantage over woman as ‘not something I did personally, so shut up about it.’

MRA truly have amazing abilities to work themselves into some kind of stupid untenable feedback loop, don’t they?

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

@marinaliteyears, exactly, a death cult where the sins of the mothers shall be visited upon the daughters in perpetuity. And, being a cult, the central tenets are never questioned, because the beliefs are underpinned by faith. And grasping at straws of any research findings that could possibly, in a dark alley, at midnight, in a lunar eclipse, be twisted into supporting even a small portion of the belief.

It reminds me of this scene:
– Crowd: A witch! A witch! A witch! We found a witch! We’ve got a witch! A witch! A witch! We have found a witch. May we burn her?
– How do you know she is a witch
– She looks like one.
– Bring her forward.
– I’m not a witch! I’m not a witch !
– But you are dressed as one.
– They dressed me like this. – No, we didn’t.
– And this isn’t my nose. It’s a false one.
– Well? – We did do the nose.
– The nose? – And the hat. But she is a witch !
– Did you dress her up like this? – No, no!
– Yes. A bit.
– She has got a wart.
– What makes you think she’s a witch?
– She turned me into a newt!
– A newt?
– I got better.
– Burn her anyway!
– Quiet! Quiet!
– There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
– Are there? What are they? Tell us. – Do they hurt?
– Tell me, what do you do with witches?
– Burn them!
– And what do you burn, apart from witches?
– More witches! – Wood!
– So why do witches burn?
– ‘Cause they’re made of wood? – Good!
– How do we tell if she is made of wood? – Build a bridge out of her.
– But can you not also make bridges out of stone?
– Oh, yeah.
– Does wood sink in water?
– No, it floats. – Throw her into the pond!
– What also floats in water?
– Bread. – Apples.
– Very small rocks. – Cider! Great gravy.
– Cherries. Mud. – Churches.
– Lead. – A duck!
– Exactly.
– So, logically–
– If she weighs the same as a duck…
– she’s made of wood.
– And therefore?
– A witch!
– A duck! A duck! – Here’s a duck.
– We shaIl use my largest scales.
– Burn the witch !
– Remove the supports!
– A witch!
– It’s a fair cop.
– Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?

AIT
AIT
10 years ago

Kiwi Girl:

If I knew where to get the right oils and stuff for scented mothterfucking candles, I’d make ’em in a heartbeat. I sadly have to live with what Yankee Candle makes. Some of their stuff smells absolutely awesome though. Also sadly, I have no bonbons. But, I have a large can of chocolate coated coffee beans, if you’re interested in a few, or anyone else for that matter. Perhaps some for your herd, Argenti? That is the correct term for a group of unicorns and horses, yeah?

bodycrimes
10 years ago

Is it just me, or are MRAs typically not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree? There is a vein of stupidity and poor logic that runs through everything they say. Or maybe their brains can’t be switched to self-pity mode and think at the same time.

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

@AIT, I have left-over home-made xmas cake. 🙂

I don’t tend to like heavily scented things like many mass-manufactured candles as the smell gives me migraines. A light vanilla scent is about all I can take. I got some fabric coffee mats filled with lavender from a stall, and had to give them away because even that was too much.

I’ll share the cake if you share the beans. 🙂

@bodycrimes, it’s not just you. There’s also a cold heartlessness in deciding that the way to remedy an “equity problem” is to make the situation in the worst-off group even worse, instead of trying to improve things for everyone. Hence, my reference to it as a death cult. They seem to fetishize death, pain, and suffering, or at least have a particularly unusual obsession with them.

AIT
AIT
10 years ago

Kiwi Girl:

Even trade! Kind of a bummer about heavy scents being too much, but understandable.

bodycrimes:

Yeah, definitely not just you. Their rhetoric also tends to be self-defeating half the time.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I could see arguing that in theory the number of men and women who die in work-related incidents should be equal, but it’s hard to take the people who say that seriously when they’re the same people who insist that women can’t/shouldn’t do the jobs that have the highest rates of fatalities*. What makes no sense at all is arguing that we should make sure lots of women die now to make up for the men who died in the past. Doing that wouldn’t bring even a single man who died in a mining accident back, so what’s the point?

*They always forget prostitution, which is a. a majority female job and b. the job with the highest fatality rate of all. Just because the media mostly doesn’t bother reporting on prostitutes who’re murdered doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

JoJo
JoJo
10 years ago

I wish I could not get so angry at these people, because I can’t properly mock them when my blood is boiling.

Snork Maiden
10 years ago

Childbirth and prostitution, two things the MRAs do consider women good for.

kittehserf
10 years ago

GillieMimosa, we have so many things to make us proud to be Aussies happening now, don’t we? Only not.

Kootiepatra
10 years ago

If “equality” means righting historical wrongs by doing enough of the opposite wrong thing in our current day, I’m not sure MRA’s would actually be happy with that arrangement. I mean, that would mean men should lose the right to vote, perform certain jobs, or receive equal pay for a century or two.

I could keep going with that example, but I think it will suffice to say: You can’t correct an historic injustice by balancing it out with a new injustice. Try fixing the problem instead.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

If the lack of female suffering is bringing Disgruntled down, he should cheer himself up by looking into work-related injuries and deaths of sex workers. And then punch himself in the face.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

@auggz

That link did indeed cheer me up, though I’m amazed the filmmaker got an Abyssinian to stay still and be posed in a t-shirt.

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

I need to change my name to Ninja’d.

Kaderie
Kaderie
10 years ago

“83% of Senators are Male, and this is proof of sexism against women. 93% of work place deaths are male, but this isn’t a gendered issue, it’s a work place safety and labor relations issue.”

The difference is that in a perfect world, Senators would be split 50/50, but there would be *no* work place deaths, not the same number split evenly among men and women.

When you find yourself arguing for increasing death for a population, that’s really the moment you need to take a step back and take a long hard look at your ideology. And that’s not advice just relevant to MRA/Feminism, it’s applicable to everything.

BritterSweet
10 years ago

But if today’s women get set up to die off in high numbers to “make up” for the male deaths over the course of a hundred years, that would reduce the female population drastically. Then wouldn’t that result in less men getting laid?

What’s kind of sad is that that would probably be their only reason to think increased workplace and war deaths would be a bad thing.