Categories
advocacy of violence antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? empathy deficit grandiosity irony alert mantrum men who should not ever be with women ever MGTOW misandry misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats oppressed white men slacktivism taking pleasure in women's pain your time will come

A Man Going His Own Way offers a plan for gender equality. It involves killing hundreds of thousands of women

A woman at work. But shouldn't she be DEAD?
A woman at work. But shouldn’t she be DEAD?

This blog gets a lot of drive-by commenters, usually hostile, who drop one comment and then vanish, never to return. A lot of these comments are insults and one-liners, but a good number of these one-shot numbers, apparently seeking to maximize the impact of their one bit of input on this blog, deposit mini-manifestos setting forth their grand visions of what Men’s Rights stands for, why feminism is evil, or whatever it is that has them most riled up that day.

The most recent of these manifesto-droppers was a self-described Man Going His Own Way called Disgruntled, who set forth at some length his own rather punitive version of gender equality. It’s a rather revealing document, so I thought I would share it with you all.

Disgruntled started off by declaring that

I … demand increased equality among the 2 main genders and whatever additional gender-types have entered the fray

But his vision of equality is a rather blinkered one, to say the least. He singles out three areas in which men fare worse than women, and demands not that the suffering of men be alleviated — but that the suffering of women be ratcheted up to meet that of men’s.

He starts off with a reasonable enough request, one that is in fact supported by most feminists:

One demand I have is that females in the USA be required by law, as males are, to sign up for the military draft and to be subject to a draft if enacted.

Indeed, when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to include women. And given that women can now officially serve in combat in the armed forces, it seems likely that women will be included in registration as a matter of course.

Not that this is really much of a live issue, since the draft itself is dead and isn’t going to be resurrected in the forseeable future.

But Disgruntled’s next demand shows what his real agenda is:

To achieve parity I want the vast majority of draftees to be females until a general equality is attained with the numbers of dead and maimed males from past wars. To ease the determination I would start with World War 1.

That’s right: Disgruntled is calling for a government-sponsored lady-killing operation, one which would mean the death of hundreds of thousands of women, because women weren’t dying in combat during a period when they weren’t allowed to serve in combat.

Indeed, during World War I, when Disgruntled begins his program, they weren’t  allowed to vote.

He’s not the only MRA to feel this way; A Voice for Men has advanced a similarly punitive, if less drastic, “solution” to gender inequality in the armed forces.

I should note that the period that Disgruntled is trying to make up for, the twentieth century and early twenty-first, was a century of mass carnage. The United States managed to escape the worst of that carnage; while we were involved in numerous wars and other military operations, no wars were fought on US soil.

This may have given Americans — and American MRAs in particular — a rather skewed vision of what war is. The vast majority of American casualties in twentieth (and twenty-first) century wars have been military personnel — that is, they’ve been overwhelmingly male.

But in fact, in most wars, civilians (male and female, adults and children) make up roughly half of all casualties, some dying as a direct result of military actions and some as the result of disease and famine. In World War II, last century’s bloodiest war, possibly as many as 2/3 of the total casualties were civilian. Men don’t have a monopoly on suffering in wartime.

After a brief mention of criminal sentencing disparities, Disgruntled moves on to another topic that is a favorite of MRAs:

Another life aspect is the woeful number of males maimed or dying performing the tasks that keep the USA operating on a daily basis. As a society we must do all we can to get females employed in those high-risk jobs that traditionally have high injury/death rates.

Again: the solution is for more women to die!

Interestingly enough, though MRAs talk about “getting” women into these professions all the time, the women who have tried to enter professions like coal mining have faced massive resistance, not from feminists trying to protect them from dangerous “male” jobs but from management — and the men in these jobs themselves. Women coal miners not only face the dangers of the job, but open hostility and sexual harassment from their male co-workers as well.

Now, a real men’s movement — one interested in actually helping men and not just in attacking women or gleefully imagining them getting their comeuppance by dying in war or in a mine collapse — would look at the reports of (mostly) men dying in accidents on the job and would, you know, ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

It seems weird to have to point out that generally speaking real activists try to do something about the issues they care about, but in all my reading of the manosphere over the last few years I have not once seen any MRA actually attempt to examine why there are so many workplace deaths, much less ask what can be done about it.

Sure, MRAs complain about workplace deaths all the time, but simply as “proof” that men are the “disposible sex” and that women are a bunch of spoiled brats. Or, like Disgruntled, they use it as an excuse for elaborate fantasies of what Michael Kimmel calls “restorative, retaliatory” violence.

Do you want to know why there are so many workplace deaths?

Maybe it’s because companies that put workers at risk with serious violations of safety regulations get only a slap on the wrist from OSHA? The typical OSHA fine for a serious violation is $1700. Even if someone dies as a result of this violation, the maximum fine is only $7000.

Maybe it’s because so many employers put temporary workers in dangerous situations with inadequate training?

Maybe it’s because so many employers don’t give a shit about immigrant workers? As one recent report on preventable death in the workplace (from which I cribbed the above points)  notes:

While the overall U.S. fatality rates for workers have gradually decreased over time (though they are still too high), the fatality rate for immigrant workers has increased at an alarming rate.

When you start looking into the details, you discover that workplace deaths happen for some pretty predictable reasons: companies try to cut costs by cutting corners, and regulators (deeply intwined with the industries they regulate) look the other way. And so workers — particularly more vulnerable workers like immigrants, temp workers, and young workers — pay the price, sometimes literally with their lives.

It’s a labor issue. A class issue. A race issue. And insofar as it’s a gender issue, it’s not feminists or “cultural misandry” that is to blame, but rather a patriarchal narrative that suggests that macho men don’t need to worry about following the rules (even if those rules are designed to protect your life), that stoic men shouldn’t complain about rough conditions at work.

How do you organize to fight this? You don’t yell about the “death professions” on the internet. You don’t fantasize about how great it would be if more women died in coal mines. You actually research the issue rather than reciting MRA slogans. You contact the people who are already working on the issue — mostly labor activists — and ask how to help.

And that’s the problem here. MRAs don’t want to help. They want to rage against women.

And so comfortable middle-class MRAs, whose jobs are as about as dangerous as the lives of my (indoor) cats, appropriate the real suffering of vulnerable poor and working-class men as an excuse to yell at women online and fantasize about their deaths — all while doing precisely zilch to help the men they claim to care so much about.

Hell of a civil rights movement you’ve got there.

311 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Bina
Bina
10 years ago

Charming. It’s like the whole basis of this entire (bowel) movement just boils down to WOMEN MUST DIE! Not evil women, not bad women, just…WOMEN.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Probably “women who won’t fuck me on demand” must die, but that still boils down to all women.

damselindetech
10 years ago

You think at some point *any* of them would even put some half-assed, insincere effort into supporting something productive, just to make them seem more legit. Then again, maybe these are the fauxminists who join movements like Occupy to sexually harass the women involved in them.

Sam-I-Was?
Sam-I-Was?
10 years ago

How exactly will it solve the problem if more people die instead of less? I know as as far as most MRA and MGTOW as concerned equality it is all about the same thing happening to the same amount of females before you agree to move forward but something to think about, if you really want equality, why do you think all people must suffer the same amount before something will be changed? Why is it so hard for you to say that yes in the past a male dominated, if not male exclusive job had male casualties and I want to change that and make it safer for anyone who works that job. Why couch it with it’s only terrible if more women die and then I’ll worry about making it safer?

I know the answer will be a variation of because women are evil but it always baffles me that they are willing to sacrifice so many men that they are purportedly standing up for just to make a point that too many men are dying unnecessarily.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
10 years ago

I might be wrong, but I think the origin of the hypothetical “draft only women until enough have died to equal male deaths” scenario is The Myth of Male Power.

I’m fairly sure it was solely a rhetorical move by Farrell, but I’m not surprised that MRAs, MGTOWs, and other Reactionary Keyboard Warriors are taking it seriously as a good idea.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

These guys don’t logic at all. Ugh, I just can’t with this.

Xen
Xen
10 years ago

Doesn’t sound like a certain historical villain at all.

As for the draft, the whole selective service thing is ridiculous. Neither sex should be subject to it. If it does come to women being forced to sign up, I’ll skip it, as I’m still eligible. So far as I know no man has been charged for not signing up. The only consequences are not being able to get federal jobs or scholarships and not being able to obtain a driver’s license (the last one depends, some counties enforce it while others don’t).

ceebarks
ceebarks
10 years ago

That was an excellent take, David. I don’t know how you keep plugging away at this.

kittehserf
10 years ago

auggz, that link – so funny!

genderneutrallanguage
10 years ago

As is typical of feminists, Gender Equality is only appropriate when it benefits women. Start talking about equality in things like getting killed on the job and it’s raging against women, not Gender Equality.

83% of Senators are Male, and this is proof of sexism against women. 93% of work place deaths are male, but this isn’t a gendered issue, it’s a work place safety and labor relations issue.

hokesone
hokesone
10 years ago

it never fails to amaze me how little class consciousness MRAs have, and how viscerally they reject the notion that their only legitimate grievances are class issues. like jeez dudebros get a union and demand safe working conditions. bonus points because parental leave is in the foundation of nearly every collective agreement. elect at bare minimum social-democrats who will nationalize healthcare, reform the justice system, create middle class jobs, raise the standard of living, fight homelessness, and dramatically increase public health spending.

but no time for that… there’s women to hate.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

The other thing they conveniently forget is that women, though never drafted, HAVE died at war. And not only as civilian casualties, either. My Norse and Saxon ancestresses were notable swordswomen. They fought alongside their men, and I can hear their spirits laughing uproariously at the stupidity of this fool.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

GNL, nice try, but you still fail to make a point.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I dunno, hellkell – he’s made the point that he has zero reading comprehension and is dumb as a box of hair.

Not that he needed to, we knew that already.

Xen
Xen
10 years ago

genderneutrallanguage, the whole selective service should be thrown out. It’s terrible that men are forced to sign up or be punished for not doing so. I think that rather then extending its reach it should be abolished.

Bostonian
Bostonian
10 years ago

Genderneutral dipshit is here to demonstrate lack of reading comprehension and to cheerlead for killing large numbers of people for no reason.

MRA “logic” at its stupidest.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

GNL straight-up ignored his cohort’s evil fucking thesis–that women need to die–in order to try and take his pathetic little shot at feminism. As usual, they can’t shoot straight.

Yep, dumb as hair.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Much dumber than hair. My hair’s way smarter than them. So’s kitty fur.

Bina
Bina
10 years ago

Genderneutralidiot also ignores that women have been historically killed on the job too…especially in their most “traditional” job, that of housewife and mother. Sometimes by abusive husbands, sometimes by childbirth. It’s those deaths that made me a feminist.

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

GNL, men dying in workplace accidents is an awful thing. No one here is going to dispute that. But anyone dying in a workplace accident is an awful thing. Rather than complain that women aren’t dying, wouldn’t it be more productive to actually try to prevent people dying at all?

Alice
Alice
10 years ago

The MRM doesn’t want to help men, only hurt women. They are willing (even gleeful) to see society utterly collapse with the entire human race living in abject misery if that means that women will finally get their come uppance.

houseplant murderer
houseplant murderer
10 years ago

One who is so cognitively deficient as to miss the forest for the trees on the issue of the draft is not worth taking down point by point. Correcting the logical flaws of an illogical person’s argument doesn’t work; he can’t understand. You have to work within the frame of his illogic.

GillieMimosa
GillieMimosa
10 years ago

Also, just wanted to mention that, although I’ve been lurking for a while, I’ve only just started commenting today. So if I break some rules, please just let me know and I’ll try to do better. Thanks.

PS, love your work David

catgirl
catgirl
10 years ago

The maternal mortality has been increasing by 20% the past two decades in the United States, the only developed country where this is happening.

I vote that for every woman dying in childbirth, we kill the man who knocked her up.

Oh, wait, what? That’s inhumane? My b.

kittehserf
10 years ago

GillieMimosa, hi and welcome! Here’s your Official Welcome Package! Buried in the depths of the comments you’ll find stuff like links to the kitty avatars and a how-to on doing blockquotes and so on. (Nothing on how to avoid the wrath of the blockquote monster, though. Nobody’s figured that one out.)

http://artistryforfeminismandkittens.wordpress.com/the-official-man-boobz-complimentary-welcome-package/

1 2 3 13