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A Voice for Men boldly opposes respect for women

Hardly a controversial message, you wouldn't think.
Hardly a controversial message, you wouldn’t think.

If you live in New York state, you may have seen the poster above plastered on a bus shelter; or you may have seen it posted somewhere on the internet. The message is pretty simple, and it’s sad that it has to be said: kids are pretty impressionable, so teach your sons to treat women with basic respect.

The purpose of the ad campaign, sponsored by the New York state Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence, is pretty clear as well: teaching boys respect for women lessens the chances that they will abuse women as adults.

Numerous studies have found that men with sexist attitudes towards women are more likely to try to control their wives or girlfriends with physical abuse. Indeed, one recent study even found that brief exposure to sexist jokes made men more inclined to brush off violence against women, at least amongst men with sexist attitudes to begin with.

Speaking of which, the sexist jokes over at A Voice for Men have unveiled a hilarious new “meme,” which just happens to be inspired by the “awaiting instructions” PSAs we’ve been discussing. And here it is:

From A Voice for Men. I've blurrred the women's faces.
From A Voice for Men. I’ve blurrred the women’s faces.

The logic here is airtight: because some women get drunk and urinate in public, women don’t deserve respect.

I guess men never get drunk and urinate in public, or ever do anything vaguely embarrassing that gets caught on camera?

Is it really asking too much to respect people as people, foibles and all?

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

My favorite example of the two nations thing was when, aged 8, I asked someone sitting next to me at school in Texas if I could borrow their rubber.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Intereestingly (well, I thought it interesting), in Britain, Karen Ingala Smith has started a twitter account called “Counting Dead Women”.

One blog which Octo might care to read deals with the myths that women commit domestic violence and murder on a par with men.

http://kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/

In particular:

UK Homicide records between 2001/2 and 2011/12 (11 years) show that on average 5.7% (296 total) of male homicide victims and 44.2%(1066) of female homicide victims are killed by a partner or ex-partner. Expressed as an average of those killed by a partner or former partner over 11 years, 22% were men, 78% were women.

She explains her maths in detail in the comments, in case Octo wants to quibble.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

This is one of those things where, when people do quibble with the math, I start wondering if they ever talk to the women around them, or just pay attention to what’s happening in the families they know. I knew of cases of domestic abuse, and was aware of how it tended to be gendered, even as a child, long before any exposure to feminism.

katz
10 years ago

Suicide is when you kill someone named Sue.

Fratricide is when you kill someone at a frat party.

Genocide is when you kill someone named Gene.

Etc, etc.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Patricide is when you kill someone called Pat.

My favorite example of the two nations thing was when, aged 8, I asked someone sitting next to me at school in Texas if I could borrow their rubber.

Oh to have been a fly on the wall! 😀

Brooked
Brooked
10 years ago

@Octo
Note: If want an example of Kiwi Girls very impressive math skills check out this thread: http://manboobz.com/2014/02/07/dating-by-the-numbers-why-hacking-okcupid-is-a-waste-of-everyones-time/

First you make a brain-melting argument about how Fade’s percentages don’t matter because there are so many more overall male homicide victims.

Yet this is your next post:

But interesting talking points without the use of mathematics on page 83 of the England/Wales pdf… Apparently, while there is a significant amount of male victims of “partner abuse” (and now that should be a clear definition), there were still about half as many again female victims (5% to 7% or 4% to 6%). Of course, if we figure in that under-reporting is probably even worse for male victims, those numbers might come out more equal, but of course we can’t know for sure. And a difference of 50% more reported female victims is not that easily bridged. Forms of abuse, and also stalking, are the same with both genders, it seems.

So you have seemingly fallen back in love with percentages now that there are more overall female victims. FYI, you’re actually using mathematics here, poorly at that, and Kiwi Girl deftly picks apart this paragraph.

You can’t have it both ways, both these sets of statistics use categories based on the relationship of the person to the killer/abuser. If it’s wrong to do it for homicide (hint: it’s not wrong) then it would be wrong to apply the same categorical breakdown to abuse. A problem would occur if these categories weren’t mutually exclusive and there was double-counting, but they are mutually exclusive so that problem doesn’t occur.

Fade’s analysis was perfectly good, including the use of averaging.

You patronizingly brush aside her analysis with this hunk of assholery:

That is what I criticized there. Unless a Statistics-Equivalent Person to Fibinachi arrives here I do think the comparison Fade made is simply not statistically meaningful, for above mentioned reason.

Kiwi Girl’s response is dead on IMHO.

Fuck off for telling me I can’t do statistics. And fuck your smiley face.

katz
10 years ago

Remember the -ometer discussion? I’m getting vibes of that.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Matricide is when you beat your mats with a stick to clean them.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

-Ometer discussion? That one seems to have fallen down the memory hole for me.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Pesticide is when you get rid of trolls, like Octo.

I’m still laughing at “homicide means killed at home.”

kittehserf
10 years ago

I can’t remember the -ometer discussion either.

Hey, hellkell! When’s the move on?

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Not until late June/early July. We have to give our landlord 60 days notice, plus we don’t want to drive up there while there’s even the slightest chance of shit mountain weather. We also have to go up, find a place, find pet transpo, have a giant yard sale, hire movers, and buy a new car. And a million other little things.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Ah, the joys of moving house (let alone interstate) – not.

Kim
Kim
10 years ago

Octo – I don’t believe you’re trolling. I do believe you think you are a lot smarter and know a lot more about this than you actually do. I can see you’re trying, but you keep posting half-formed ideas right in the thread.

Assuming you do want to be part of this community, you might want to read more and comment less, so that when you do comment, you’re on point.

That is what I criticized there. Unless a Statistics-Equivalent Person to Fibinachi arrives here 😉

This, however, was just rude. Kiwi Girl (the one who you were talking to when you said this) is our resident statistics whizz.

katz
10 years ago

It was inspired by Christopher Pell, I think because of his “keylogger”, but we were coming up with alternate uses for various meters. A barometer tells you where you can get a drink, an anemometer locates tide pool life, a spirometer detects corrupt vice presidents, etc.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I guess an O’Meter would measure your Irish ancestry.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: cassandrakitty

I hope “they” doesn’t become a common thing because it makes the gods of grammar cry.

Actually, it has a loooong precedent in the English language. It was in the King James bible!

I… may have had to have this fight with a lot of people claiming that our pronoun preference was negated by grammar. <.<

My favorite example of the two nations thing was when, aged 8, I asked someone sitting next to me at school in Texas if I could borrow their rubber.

Oh my god. I had this EXACT SAME THING happen when I was in high school with a German exchange student! That poor girl. I was even in Texas!

My own example of language hilarity was when I was living in New Zealand, where apparently they don’t use the word ‘cilantro’ and pronounce ginger (the spice) and ginger (the redhead) differently. We each thought the other was putting us on.

kittehserf
10 years ago

How do they pronounce ginger differently, LBT?

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: kittehs

In the USA, ginger the spice and ginger the redhead are pronounced the same, like “jinjer.” In NZ, apparently the spice is pronounced “ginger,” and the redhead is “jinjer.”

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

I’m scratching my head over that one as NZers are well known for our “lazy vowels” (and high rising terminals, I’m soooooo guilty of that). In that, when we say “beer”, “bear”, and “bare”, they’re all pronounced “beer”.

So I’m trying to work out how we say the same word differently.

Piss-take of our prime minister, to illustrate the point (I *don’t* talk like this, I promise):

kittehserf
10 years ago

I’m scratching my head over that, too – never heard of ginger being said with the hard g sound.

I’ve heard a joke that the Kiwis flogged all their vowels off to us. I think it might be true.

We have the rising terminals too, have had for ages. I always want to say “Are you asking me or telling me?” ::grinds teeth::

Funny thing: NZer recently introduced herself as (I thought) Keddy. What a cool name, thought I. Glad I didn’t say anything … her name’s Kitty. Which is also a cool name, but not the unusual one I thought it was! But sometimes I can’t tell Oz and NZ accents apart. I’d be struggling to name most USian accents too, and never mind trying to tell a Canadian from a USian!

Kiwi girl
Kiwi girl
10 years ago

I can tell a few Sydney accents now, but that’s about it.

For the Canadians, it seems to be in the way they pronounce their “o” so it’s more like “or”, but not as obvious as the South Africans (I’m better with spotting their accent now, I used to be stuck until I got them to say a word with an o in it). The only time I have been fooled recently was by an American who lived very north, practically just over the border from Canada (can’t remember the state, wasn’t Washington) and I called them a Canadian. I think that was a first for them. They laughed and took it in good grace.

I’ve had a bit of trouble with the Irish and Scots accents in the past – not the heavy accents, but the ones that have only a slight accent. To my ear, they both roll their r’s the same way.

NZ has been getting regional English accents (there are already regional Maori accents, and those existed before Europeans arrived). But given that no-one understands what we say anyways, I doubt non-NZers will notice. Our mangling of English is a trick so that we can pass secret messages to each other without having to change anything! 🙂

Fade
Fade
10 years ago

@kittehserf

I can’t tell canadian accent from US accent, and I live in the US XD

of course, i also suck at regional accents. When I moved from New York to Indiana, people kept telling me I had a New York accent, but they didn’t sound like they had indiana accents.

kittehserf
10 years ago

I always think of South African accents as “Sith Efrikan,” but that’s more the Boer-descended sound, I think.

I can never tell if Oz has any regional accents or not. The differences I hear are more of the class-indicator variety – think of the sort of thing Kath and Kim was sending up (though their parody of the sound was pretty mild).

About the only accents I’m reasonably good at picking are ones from the UK and Ireland, though it’s only the English ones where I can pick some regions – Yorkshire, Birmingham, Geordie, West Country and some London ones. This is what happens when you spend your life watching the BBC. 😛

Kim
Kim
10 years ago

I can tell a Melbourne person if they sound like Kylie did when she was on Neighbours.