If you live in New York state, you may have seen the poster above plastered on a bus shelter; or you may have seen it posted somewhere on the internet. The message is pretty simple, and it’s sad that it has to be said: kids are pretty impressionable, so teach your sons to treat women with basic respect.
The purpose of the ad campaign, sponsored by the New York state Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence, is pretty clear as well: teaching boys respect for women lessens the chances that they will abuse women as adults.
Numerous studies have found that men with sexist attitudes towards women are more likely to try to control their wives or girlfriends with physical abuse. Indeed, one recent study even found that brief exposure to sexist jokes made men more inclined to brush off violence against women, at least amongst men with sexist attitudes to begin with.
Speaking of which, the sexist jokes over at A Voice for Men have unveiled a hilarious new “meme,” which just happens to be inspired by the “awaiting instructions” PSAs we’ve been discussing. And here it is:
The logic here is airtight: because some women get drunk and urinate in public, women don’t deserve respect.
I guess men never get drunk and urinate in public, or ever do anything vaguely embarrassing that gets caught on camera?
Is it really asking too much to respect people as people, foibles and all?
@Octo
Dude, but you’re ignoring when people are pointing out where they think you’re wrong. You’re saying it’s a reference to when you were wrong, but kinda acting like you can’t be wrong here. FFS.
And it was innocent in that it wasn’t an attack on you. I’m not really giving a fuck how many cuss words kiwi girl uses, so long as they aren’t slurs.
Well, I don’t think I’m wrong here. Otherwise I wouldn’t argue my point here, right? But of course I’m a fallible human being, so I *can* be wrong. I just don’t think I’m here.
Wouldn’t you? How do we know that? Lots of people come here and argue black is white.
Wouldn’t you? How do we know that? Lots of people come here and argue black is white.
Well, concerning my statistics position I can continue with providing arguments all night long (because I really think Fade had a mistake in basically assuming a fixed-limit total number of homicides) , but I don’t think you mean that in particular. As for “proving good faith” in general, well, one how would one even do that? I’m open to suggestions.
@Octo, I’ve been reading your comments in various threads. They all amount to sneaky ‘What about the Menz?’ You concede points about feminism purely to lay the ground for your next disingenuous point about how men have it worse.
I’ve seen some covert trolls in my time:
“I’m not an MRA but…”
“I’m not a sock, I just agree with Trolly McTroll”
“I’m a feminist ‘insert feminine name here’ but white males are totally subjugated by the feeemales”
Congratulations, you’re a new species.
“I’m a feminist, I’ll concede some feminist points to start with but only as a foundation for more talk about the hardships of men. Oh yeah, and I argue with everybody for no apparent reason”
And yes, I understand statistics, your comments were all noise.
FWIW, my troll senses have been tingling since Octo first appeared. Honestly, though, does it matter if it’s deliberate trolling or just assholery? In either case, people are free to respond with “the things you are saying are bullshit” or “I do not like you, sir or madam, so stop pretending that we’re all friends here”.
Did everyone else miss this bit of hilarity from Octo, btw?
Homicides mean people who were killed at home. Oserving the basic rules of how English functions as a language, if we were to try to make this meaning of “homicide” work we’d be discussing cases in which houses were murdered, rather than people. Home-icide. It’s what happens when your home is destroyed by strategically placed bombs, or a wrecking ball.
But Cassandrakitty, Octo is certain zie isn’t wrong … /lol
N’thing the comments about Octo and trolling, or asshattery that amounts to the same thing. I’ve had the something not right here all along with zir. Ophelia, “what about teh menz” is what I’ve been getting from all zir comments, with disagreement for its own sake thrown in.
Complaining about “fuck yous” is classic troll stuff, too. Anyone who’s bothered to read any thread here will have seen lots of swears.
Jesus, at least use “their”. Yes, I was wrong on that definition. English is not my first language.
@octo
?? Zir is just a gender neutral pronoun. You can tell us what pronouns you’d like to be called, and we’ll call you them.
@cassandra
Eh, to be fair, Octo did already admit to being wrong on the homocide definition. Still suspicious on the reluctance to consider they may be wrong, but they did admit they fucked up there.
There’s a trail of dubious comments all over the threads at the moment, so this one is just adding to suspicions.
Hey, Octo? Using zie and zir is a courtesy. I don’t know your preferred pronouns, and plenty of people don’t like “their” because it grates on their grammar.
Like I said, I don’t think it matters that much if it’s classic trolling or just being unable to engage in a reasonable way because that’s hir personality. Except to David, maybe, since he seems to ban some subcategories of troll (like sockpuppets).
I’m willing to use whatever pronouns people prefer, but I hope “they” doesn’t become a common thing because it makes the gods of grammar cry.
I think of “troll” in a broader sense than “shit-stirring for the sake of it” – is that the classic definition? – it’s more about sundry misogynists coming here shitting on the carpet, whether they’re doing it sincerely or just trying to upset people.
Tell me you’re not posting from Harvard …
On “troll” – for me I usually mean a person who’s commenting in an attempt to rile people up because they find that amusing or someone who’s being disingenuous in an attempt at some sort of gotcha. There are lots of people whose beliefs about sexism, racism, and so on are totally different to those of most people here who I wouldn’t necessarily call trolls, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to get a positive reception when they say things that clash with the values of the majority of people who comment here, and if they act like it’s unfair that people are disagreeing with them and how could such a thing happen, then hey, may actually be a troll.
Isn’t it funny how the pattern so often goes:
1) Wall of text, generally written in good English
2) People disagree with content
3) “You didn’t understand/I didn’t make myself clear”
4) Repeat
5) Repeat
6) “English isn’t my first language!”
“Homicide” meaning “was killed at home” doesn’t really sound like an ESL error, but hey, like I keep saying, not sure that it matters in this case.
Yeah, that’s what I mean about my definition being pretty broad (though Manboobz-specific) – someone spouting misogyny (whether NWO level or the mealy-mouthed variety) on a feminist blog that’s all about mocking misogyny, qualifies as a troll for me.
I think my definition is a bit more fine-grained due to too much time spent on sites full of lulz trolls. For this site though, some people may not be trolling, but I don’t see why their sincerity obliges people to be nice to them if they’re spouting sexist bullshit.
That “homicide” mistake reminds me of a funny moment in an English class eons ago. My teacher, a USian, was on a rant about the phrase “poor benighted blacks” being used of indigenous Australians. Trouble was she was ranting about how it referred to a class system and ranks they didn’t have here … yup, she thought it meant “beknighted”.
😛
…Trying to figure out how you could knight someone in a bad way.
Yes, that’s exactly why my definition’s a bit skewed – I’ve never spent time on sites with lulz troll infestations. “Spewer of sexist bullshit” condenses to “troll” for me. The great trolls of yore here were entirely sincere in their horribleness, but I’d never think of them as not-trolls because of that. Coming to a feminist site to demonstrate disdain or outright hatred of women is pretty damn trolly.
LOL I know, my teacher had me totally baffled with that one. Talk about “two nations divided by a common language”. To give her her due, I told her after class that she’d got the word wrong, and next day she told the class she’d mucked up. She was a cool teacher, actually; I wish I’d known more about feminism then, because some of the course touched on it.