Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are discussing the case of a Japanese man who set himself and his nine-year-old son on fire on a playground in an attempted murder-suicide; the man died, but his son, while severely burned, managed to survive.
The discussion amongst the Men’s Rightsers is actually less awful than one might expect, with only a few commenters making excuses for the man, or blaming his ex-wife. Many of the regulars are actually condemning his actions straightforwardly.
And then there’s TyphonBlue, the highly inventive female Men’s Rights activist who is one of A Voice for Men’s self-proclaimed “Honey Badgers.” She thinks the fact that the man tried to kill himself along with his son is a point in his favor and, more than that, a sign that men are better than women.
No, really. She blames “pedestalization” for it all.
You see, if you didn’t put women on a pedestal, they’d kill themselves along with their kids, and all would be well in the world. I guess? I really don’t see why this would be better.
Later in the thread, TB tries to explain her peculiar logic further:
I think it’s time to pull out the old Don Draper “what?!” gif again.
I will grant her one point: she’s correct that, while fathers and mothers are roughly equally likely to kill their children, men are much more likely to kill themselves as well. Why this would be a sign of moral superiority I don’t know.
I should also note that this doesn’t mean that the men and women kill children equally: while 57 percent of those who kill children under 5 are parents, the non-parents who kill children are mostly men.
In any case, “pedestalization” has pretty much nothing to do with it — unless you’re talking about the tendency of fathers who kill themseves and their children to overrate their own indispensablility.
So why do parents kill their children? Not surprisingly, mothers and fathers tend to have wildly different motivations. In Slate, Dahlia Lithwick summarizes what we know:
Researchers, building on the work of Phillip Resnick, have shown that women tend to kill their own offspring for one of several reasons: because the child is unwanted; out of mercy; as a result of some mental illness in the mother; in retaliation against a spouse; as a result of abuse.
It may be hard to understand how a mother can come to believe that killing her children would be an act of mercy, but that’s what postpartum psychosis can do to your brain.
The motivations for fathers tend to be rather different:
Most frequently … they kill because they feel they have lost control over their finances, or their families, or the relationship, or out of revenge for a perceived slight or infidelity. … more often than not, men kill their children to get back at a woman—to take away what she most cherishes.
As Charles Patrick Ewing, a University of Buffalo law professor and psychologist, told Elizabeth Fernandez of the San Francisco Chronicle
“These are narcissistic, self-centered guys who see themselves as the glue of the family. They feel they have to take their own life, but first, they have to kill the children. To them, it seems rational. They think they can’t manage and the family can’t manage without them.”
It’s also worth pointing out that when you look at murder-suicide in general — and not just when children are among the victims — it is almost exclusively (roughly 90%) a male crime, with the victims almost always female, generally the man’s wife, girlfriend, or ex. Not surprisingly, disproportionate number of those responsible for murder-suicides involving intimate partners were also domestic abusers. (As was, reportedly, the Japanese man who set himself and his son ablaze.)
The only heartening thing here is that TyphonBlue actually got downvoted in the Men’s Rights subreddit for spouting her toxic nonsense.
EDITED TO ADD, 12/30/13: The son, who had been in critical condition since the incident, has now died.
@ Bina
Oh yeah, that was John the Evil Otter. Lovely guy, he and Typhon Blue would make a perfect couple.
Eh, I missed that bit. I saw the “private party” and boo hoo I’m upset you’re all attacking me and went from there.
Bina – I know JohntheOtter said he’d walk past a rape taking place, and I know some creep said to let a little girl drown, but I don’t remember which the latter was. Could have been some commenter on one of the MRA sites.
Ninjaed! 🙂
Oh, here’s the let-them-drown shitstain:
http://manboobz.com/2013/06/29/mra-icon-zed-let-little-girls-drown-because-theyll-probably-grow-up-to-be-terrible-women/
I feel like otters deserve to be associated with a better kind of human.
Don’t call him an otter! The otters of the world are horribly insulted. I suggest “John the Bother”, because a bother is all he is or ever will be.
He’s more like what would happen if Oscar the Grouch was a real animal, but less likeable.
“It limits people who have gone through trauma and made it out the other side.”
And those of us stuck in the middle (I have had a shitty day, and will shortly be posting fish videos)
Bina, did you see the art we did a while back, when the JohntheOtter theme came up? Cloudiah collected them all:
http://artistryforfeminismandkittens.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/johntheangryotter-posters-many-images-gifs-in-this-post/
Much laughage to be had! 🙂
Manboobs excoriates fratricide by justifying matricide as “oh those poor wimminz” Look anyone who kills their children no matter what gender they are should be convicted of murder, and sentenced equally. However you see the women who kill their children which occurs more often, get a lesser sentence because of the rationalization hamsters around the reasons why women kill their children, if a man does the same thing not only does he get convicted of murder (rightly so) but it’s shame, upon double shame, upon double shame. It’s either one way or the other.
Laughage there was indeed…but once I got to that widdle farting kitten, I was achy all down my sides.
Nobody here has done that.
And seriously, “rationalization hamsters?” Really?
You hear that feminists? Mike says murderers suffering mental illness shouldn’t be treated as mentally ill defendants if their mental illness is a result of childbirth! Postpartum depression or psychosis? No insanity plea for you, no sympathy, that’s misandry!
Gotta be that, seeing how feminists don’t think female killers should, as a rule, be treated differently than male killers. Though those of us who know anything about PPD or PPP, or how insanity pleas work, do think those conditions and those pleas need to be handled differently. (Refrain from getting me started on insanity pleas, a friend interned with a lawyer who handled them and ARGH IT’S SO FUCKED UP)
Besides, “matricide” means “killing a mother,” right? And “fraticide” means “killing a brother.” So that reads, “Manboobs excoriates (reddened, raw, irritating) killing your brother by justifying killing your mother as ‘oh those poor wimminz.'”
Since when did anyone here justify killing mothers? Or brothers, for that matter?
Um, matricide/patricide is killing your father/mother. Which as far as I remember nobody has even mentioned because not really relevant?
I would guess, however, that if someone was to do so then the commenters would indeed say “oh that poor woman/man”.
Take me seriously, damn you! I am using big words! Incorrectly!
Also, commas but in all, the wrong places.
This just in: “genocide” refers to “the mass destruction of genes.”
Run on sentences are such a drag to read. Blech. Also, the dictionary is your friend.
The commas are really bothering me. They’re like poorly placed speedbumps in what’s already a mess of a comment.
That comma placement is starting to give me a headache.
Speaking of terrible punctuation habits – my mom’s ex boyfriend – actually used to liberally use dashes in sentences – like this – isn’t that annoying? I think it is – I’m glad I don’t talk to him anymore – he was a terrible person.
(Not terrible, mind you, because of his use of dashes but because he was an abusive, controlling shit.)
Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about Kate. I’m happy that she hasn’t married Mark Minter yet. It’ll be easier to get away as she will eventually have to. Besides, I think she pays alimony or housing costs to her ex. She doesn’t need to support MM as well.
It’s still Not as Annoying as when they use capitalization for EMPHASIS because they’re too lazy to figure out how to do italics.
I’m left to wonder why MRAs think feminists don’t know how to use dictionaries. Do they think that using words like “matricide” would confuse us and cause us to spin hamsters because LOLWORDISTOOHARD?