Oh, Men’s Rightsers, can you just make up your minds? Only a couple of days after blaming trolls for the spamming of Occidental College’s rape reporting site with false accusations, rather than acknowledging it as the work of Men’s Rightsers in his own subreddit who were proudly encouraging and taking credit for it themselves, Men’s Rights subreddit mod sillymod is now defending the false rape reporting as “unpopular” but thought-provoking activism.
![sillymod 6 points 7 hours ago (13|7) First you have to believe that we did something wrong in order to want to get our reputation back. Sometimes people fighting for a cause are going to do something that is unpopular in order to make a statement. I don't think we do need to get our reputation back. I think the act stands for itself, and it will get people to stop and think. permalink source save give gold hide child comments [–]TheIdesOfLight [+20] 15 points 4 hours ago (22|7) So I guess that whole "We were trolled"/"It was SRS!" bullshit is off the table? You can't pass the buck and convince yourselves everyone else is guilty but you and now it's become an act of bravery? Wow. Yeah, watching you flip flop on this for the past three days has been both alarming and rewarding. You didn't make any kind of statement, Sillymod. The entire internet and media is sneering at you and you still can't just say WE DID A TERRIBLE THING. PERHAPS WE SHOULD REFLECT ON IT AS A WHOLE. permalink source save parent give gold [–]ninioquiroz 6 points 3 hours ago (12|6) No, because that would require a level of maturity and self-awareness that this "movement" clearly lacks. But, does anybody else think feminists are to blame for all the world's problems?](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/sillymod2.png?resize=493%2C520&ssl=1)
This whole exchange is worth reading — it continues on for a number of comments beyond this, with sillymod’s rationalizations becoming increasingly baroque. It’s extremely rare to see critical remarks like those from TheIdesOfLight actually get upvoted in the Men’s Rights subreddit. The Occidental College fiasco has divided the Men’s Rights subreddit like nothing I’ve ever seen before. Some are appalled by it; others are digging in their heels.
Speaking of which, here’s former subreddit mod Celda defending the false rape reports in much more straightforward terms than sillymod:
![Celda [-1] 5 points 18 hours ago (9|4) I agree that the subreddit deserves some responsibility for that. But - there was nothing wrong with those actions. I saw the news articles in which it says they were spammed with hundreds of reports, of being raped by fictional characters, accusing the staff of the Dean's Office (the form is run by the Dean's Office), etc. Those reports are non-harmful - and the goal of shutting down the online form is quite a laudable one. I am actually quite disgusted by the number of people who are defending the existence of an anonymous online form intended for reporting people as rapists.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/celda.png?resize=521%2C231&ssl=1)
Elsewhere, Celda has called the false reporting “quite moral and laudable.”
Thanks to the AgainstMensRights subreddit — which, again, is not actually against rights for men, but against the reactionary clusterfuck that is the Men’s Rights movement — for keeping close track on all this.
@Steve, okay, for the record: I felt that your comment in the glossary thread was racist in terms of content, not choice of words, and nothing I have seen from you since has felt like a proper acknowledgment of how what you said was an issue. I also feel like you have gotten a pass on it, and yet you keep bringing it up in vague terms — and then when people start to talk about it, you dictate when that conversation is over by saying something like “now that we’re all done talking about that again” as if you were not the one who bright it up. Your whole deal is making me suuuuper uncomfortable.
I think I may have found a site, dadsrights.org, that’s focused on actual men’s rights rather than misogyny/antifeminism. It’s run by an attorney, so it does seem to be promoting his business interests as well, but still. I’ve only read from 12/11 to 12/21 (10 posts), so that’s a preliminary judgment. And actually, 12/11 talks about the Bode Miller case but doesn’t mention the problematic ruling that took place before the child’s birth–but OTOH, since that post is talking about current custody arrangements, that’s arguably beyond the scope of that post. The site is willing to at least sometimes criticize MRAs, judging by this post about Kate Winslet and Justice4Fathers.
@Katz: I always was a bit fascinated by “Mac culture” and all….I mean, it *is* true that
@closetpuritan: Yeah, this guy seems ok to me as well, but further investigation will probably be needed before we can determine for sure, though. Maybe Dave can look into them?
Whoops, I forgot to finish the Mac culture sentence….sorry, folks, I’m not feeling all that well right now. =(
Viscaria: exactly.
To clarify why I think that the MRM is cultic.
Many in the movement especially the leadership are manipulative, dysfunctional, abusive and irrational in their beliefs and interactions with others.
For a large part they maintain an in-group/out-group mentality
They tend to recruit the vulnerable and immature.
Scapegoating is a large part of their literature.
They ostracize any deviation from the party line and they tend to rewrite history and the facts to suit their worldview.
If that does not scream out “cultic” I do not know what will.
@Dvärghundspossen: Yeah, but then again, I doubt most of them would feel the same way if a woman was falsely accused of rape or some other form of sexual assault; they’d scream from the roof tops about “conspiracy” or whatnot…..
Squee!!! Someone used nonplussed correctly. It’s the little things that make me happy.
The way “cult” is equated with (usually, in the West) OT-obsessed groups, usually run by and for men, and with some charismatic and extremely domineering man at the head, seems a fairly recent usage, to me. It does have broader meanings – look at references to cult centres in ancient history and archaeology, where it’s simply about important centres of the cult of Isis, or Mithras, or whoever, or things like cult films. The sinister mind-control element is specific, and doesn’t – at least to me – mean the word’s off-limits in its older and broader senses.
Flippantly, I’d say Elam would qualify as a wannabe cult leader, not an actual one. He’s severely lacking the charisma, though he’s amply supplied with ego, and as was mentioned already, you can’t really run a cult through a website.
As for the “you have to be careful what you say here” – BULLSHIT. Crazyladyblues got it right: just be thoughtful. Also, yeah, I’m with Viscaria’s comments.
People get a lot more leeway here than on sites like Feministe or, gods forbid, Shakesville.
@kittehserf: “Crazyladyblues got it right: just be thoughtful.” I do try to be. Sometimes I mess up, though: I didn’t mean to come across as an ignorant buffoon back there, and yet, that’s what happened. And, again, I am truly sorry about that, and hopefully I won’t make those types of mistakes again. I really do value the community here(I hope I’m making sense); it’s why I first started following David’s blog, and why I started commenting on here.
On a separate note, I’d agree with you: re: Paul Elam.
An attempt to explain what’s with mac users, this excludes iPods since they’ve become the MP3 player — windows users, some of y’all, act like we’re these pretentious hipsters, and, realizing we have good tech and solid machines, we get a bit pissy about this. So when we see // know another mac user there’s a bit of a “ah, you get it!”
Not that mac users are oppressed or anything, but there’s a certain shared familiarity with people being jerks about mac users.
Kinda like with sports fan I guess. Even the Yankees // Red Soxs hate doesn’t really produce oppression (“doesn’t really” because it can get violent) — but there’s that “hey, you’re a fan of X too?! Awesome!”
Lol, or Emilie Autumn fans. Plague Rats unite! *rat claws*
Curious. I got the impression it was more “Oh, Windows, what a pile of rubbish compared with Mac” – but ::shrugs:: I couldn’t care less which people use. I started on Macs in the 1980s but have used Windows ever since, and don’t much care for using a different system when I do encounter it. It’s familiarity, that’s all. Plus, in the marine industry, hardly any software works with Macs. I do think Macs are markted as uber-cool and all that shit, and I don’t care for that, but I don’t associate the people actually using them with the company’s twaddle.
Dvarghundspossen said:
This. With all the shit rape victims go through, all the nasty rape myths, why would they think that large numbers of women would lie to bring that kind of scrutiny and disapproval and outright stupid down on themselves? It’s like thy live in some kind of fantasy world were a woman can point her finger at a man and “cry rape,” and that man is immediately clapped in irons and thrown into deep, dark dungeon for the rest of his life, while the woman is crowned queen for a day and thrown a ticker-tape parade.
It’s like, do they look outside their own front doors? Do they not see how the world works?
sparky – If MRAs ever figure out how the world works, would they even be MRAs?
Yup, that’s what I’m talking about. Windoze crashed on me all the time, the whole OS, every time I ever used it. With Macs, individual programs crash now and then, but the OS remains up and running fine. The only problem with them is that the software world has a prejudice against them, but then again, how much third-party software does one really need?
Bina – depends about the third-party software. If you’re sailing, f’rinst, and want GPS systems or navigation systems generally, then you are definitely going to need third-party stuff.
@ Bina: it gets worse when you find out how anthropologists use “cult” 🙂
@ argenti, in re Mac vs PC. I’ve used both & run mixed (including Linux) networks. it’s an OS, not a lifestyle.
on topic: MRAs, still doing it wrong!
Takshak — yeah, but it’s also a fandom, with all that entails.
Bina — you can run windows on the intel macs, a full native install that’ll run all programs for that version of windows (and the install is as easy as any windows install if you have a working SuperDrive, which I do not)
Whenever people start talking Mac versus Windows I always end up in “a pox on both your houses” mode. They’re just computers, most people really don’t care which kind you use unless it’s inconveniencing them in some way.
Thirding Viscaria.
I’m not surprised these fanatics did this. Anti-feminists are literally this militant and stupid, so engrossed in their hatred that they forget how the rest of the world views them.
@Cassandra: It’s a small part of the reason why I don’t stick to either.
@Felisha: Yeah, unfortunately, that seems to be quite true. And just when you think they’ve hit rockbottom, someone always manages to dig even deeper……and deeper…… 🙁
Alice: Yeah, I guess they wouldn’t.
The damage that their way of thinking does gets to me, sometimes.
@alternatesteve90
I think some of them reached the magma levels, only to come out filled with even more hot rage, not carrying who they target anymore. They not only hate feminists, they hate women and anyone who is pro-feminist/women, mocking them with sexist remarks such as ‘mangina’. They get nasty when you so much as talk about women’s reproductive rights, especially how it’s being undermined here in the USA by republicans and influenced by religious groups. Their response is they either don’t believe in the war on women or start whining ‘What about MY reproductive rights?! Waaahhh!’
I just tell them, ‘Your condom is your reproductive right.’ Then wonder if they should stick it in their mouth like a pacifier just to stop their crying since they don’t seem to know how to put it on their dicks.
The rules of sex is, no means no, In the absence of no, it is still no. in the absence of yes, it is still no. and if your partner has had a little to much to drink the answer is still no. the only correct answer to have sex with another person is a sober yes If you can not follow these simple rules you are a rapist and the act of rape is on the rapist not the victim and mens groups that think believe or that they can change this with false reports are perverse and sick. Lynda
Haven’t read all the comments, and I’m sure, this has been addressed, but I’ll reiterate this:
ORLY? Doncha just LOVE how false rape reports are totally non-harmful when it’s these jackholes doing it, but when they assume it’s a woman doing it, it’s the WORST THING EVER and ruins dude’s lives FOREVAH!
I’m starting to think these guys really DO think consistency is misandry.