Oh, Men’s Rightsers, can you just make up your minds? Only a couple of days after blaming trolls for the spamming of Occidental College’s rape reporting site with false accusations, rather than acknowledging it as the work of Men’s Rightsers in his own subreddit who were proudly encouraging and taking credit for it themselves, Men’s Rights subreddit mod sillymod is now defending the false rape reporting as “unpopular” but thought-provoking activism.
![sillymod 6 points 7 hours ago (13|7) First you have to believe that we did something wrong in order to want to get our reputation back. Sometimes people fighting for a cause are going to do something that is unpopular in order to make a statement. I don't think we do need to get our reputation back. I think the act stands for itself, and it will get people to stop and think. permalink source save give gold hide child comments [–]TheIdesOfLight [+20] 15 points 4 hours ago (22|7) So I guess that whole "We were trolled"/"It was SRS!" bullshit is off the table? You can't pass the buck and convince yourselves everyone else is guilty but you and now it's become an act of bravery? Wow. Yeah, watching you flip flop on this for the past three days has been both alarming and rewarding. You didn't make any kind of statement, Sillymod. The entire internet and media is sneering at you and you still can't just say WE DID A TERRIBLE THING. PERHAPS WE SHOULD REFLECT ON IT AS A WHOLE. permalink source save parent give gold [–]ninioquiroz 6 points 3 hours ago (12|6) No, because that would require a level of maturity and self-awareness that this "movement" clearly lacks. But, does anybody else think feminists are to blame for all the world's problems?](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/sillymod2.png?resize=493%2C520&ssl=1)
This whole exchange is worth reading — it continues on for a number of comments beyond this, with sillymod’s rationalizations becoming increasingly baroque. It’s extremely rare to see critical remarks like those from TheIdesOfLight actually get upvoted in the Men’s Rights subreddit. The Occidental College fiasco has divided the Men’s Rights subreddit like nothing I’ve ever seen before. Some are appalled by it; others are digging in their heels.
Speaking of which, here’s former subreddit mod Celda defending the false rape reports in much more straightforward terms than sillymod:
![Celda [-1] 5 points 18 hours ago (9|4) I agree that the subreddit deserves some responsibility for that. But - there was nothing wrong with those actions. I saw the news articles in which it says they were spammed with hundreds of reports, of being raped by fictional characters, accusing the staff of the Dean's Office (the form is run by the Dean's Office), etc. Those reports are non-harmful - and the goal of shutting down the online form is quite a laudable one. I am actually quite disgusted by the number of people who are defending the existence of an anonymous online form intended for reporting people as rapists.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/celda.png?resize=521%2C231&ssl=1)
Elsewhere, Celda has called the false reporting “quite moral and laudable.”
Thanks to the AgainstMensRights subreddit — which, again, is not actually against rights for men, but against the reactionary clusterfuck that is the Men’s Rights movement — for keeping close track on all this.
@auggz: “Does this mean everyone at r/mensrights should be arrested for libel since they say “feminazi” anonymously? Or for falsely reporting?
It’s so bizarre. “What we did was totally OK because when others do it it’s totally wrong”.”
I agree with that 100%. It *is* fucking bizarre……but then again, such is par for the course for the “Men’s Rights” movement.
@alternativesteve, yeah, I’m still not convinced that the problem was limited to how you said what you said, and banging on about it makes me think you still don’t understand why people were upset.
@Emily: I do wish I had been more careful, and yes, I do understand why some people got upset, and I did take the time to offer a *sincere* apology for making the mistakes that I made, and hopefully they won’t happen again.
Alright then. Now that *that’s* hopefully over with, here’s some cat GIFs for us to enjoy:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lluyyjYr2F1qbwy3to1_500.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/fcc46deadb07bf97cbfa54ae0df3a31b/tumblr_mm0bw8XPQz1sp2homo1_400.gif
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPGj4HnzetXLy9_RtojxfX-j3Vihm5gBac8m3qt83v2u0qxiSf
@auggz: “I think they *meant* it as satire, but this is MRA satire. There was no difference between what they did and what they were trying to point out. It would be like Jonathan Swift actually eating a bunch of babies and being like “see? Eating babies is awful! *reads newspapers about how a baby eating serial killer is running around* Yay they’re getting my message/that wasn’t me!”
Yeah, agreed with that. =)
I needed earplugs just to read this. That high-pitched whine, that volume…it’s like a mosquito on steroids.
Also…that form they’re spamming is from four years ago, and they’ve just discovered it NOW? Nice to see they’re so on the ball…
As for the rest, that’s the purest projection I’ve ever seen. THEY no longer have “dominance of discussion” because evil, wicked feminists are pointing their shit out to them wherever they go. THEIR online feelings are irrelevant. And all this screaming and crying of theirs…well, I don’t need to tell you what it ain’t getting from me. These guys are such massive projectors, they should go work for Cineplex Odeon.
(And that’s not even counting the extreme irony of a reporting form that leads to no serious consequences being characterized as “totalitarian” and life-wrecking and man-feelings-hurting.)
@Bina: I honestly had to laugh & chuckle at that Cineplex Odeon joke…..that’s a good one! =)
Thank you, I’ll be here all week. >bows<
So who else notices this form is almost four years old… if this is such a tool for punishing men where are the actual harms it’s done?
@Pecunium: But the honest truth is, I think we can all agree that whatever the supposed harms towards men are, they exist solely in the minds of the MRAs.
@Pecunium: In case I wasn’t clear(and I apologize if not!), what I meant is, is that there’s really no actual harm that’s been done against men that we know of. And in fact, honestly, I believe the disciplinary actions offered by the college may not go far enough; one little essay isn’t going to deter *most* of those men who *are* inclined to rape & otherwise abuse women, I don’t think.
ok, call me stupid (I know I am slow sometimes), but the form is 4 years old and just now they decided to “take action” (for the lack of an expression)?? I don’t get it….
Btw, congratulations to Ophelia ^_^
Oh so their justification of their online hissy fit is now that it was all really satire? What is next? Are they going to try to tell everyone that the whole thing was a misinterpreted piece of existential guerrilla theater and that we just don’t get their artistry?
Congrats to Ophelia Monarch. Sounds like you had the perfect wedding day.
@ Alternative Steve I’ve never found that you need to be extra careful in your comments here, just think about them. It’s one of the best things about this blog. The only times I’ve ever thought “what were you thinking when you posted that?” is from the trolls. I’m not a regular poster. I’m usually too late to post & others have already said it better than me anyway.
@ Pecunium thanks for the response to my worries about my user name.
He’s right, you know. It’s all in the Motherfucking Journal of Goddamn Fucking Sciencey Shit.
I keep expecting to hear that explanation for the entire MRM, actually.
Rape isn’t a big deal to the MRM. It’s just a few minutes, get over it, you were asking for it anyway (goes the rationale). But rape accusations, now those are terrible and can RUIN SOMEONE’S LIFE. Like those poooor Steubenville football players, who now have to suffer from tarnished Google reputations and the possibility that some company might pass them over for hiring someday.
It just seems like such a douchey thing to whine about. The usual statistic you hear is that false rape accusations make up around 3-4% of all reported rapes. I wonder if that 3-4% includes victims who were later coerced or intimidated into dropping the charges?
@Buttercup: Yeah. Honestly, I seriously could not believe just how many people were willing to jump to the defense of the Steubenville football players, even after it was revealed that they’d taped the whole thing…..what is *wrong* with some people?!? SMHS(shaking my head, sadly). 🙁
Re Cult: It’s a complicated term, because it has technical meanings, social meanings, and colloquial meanings.
I do think there are elements of cultic thinking in the MRM (as with Randians), but it lacks the formal aspects needed to be a, “cult” in either the technical, or social, meanings.
Which would be hilarious, given how they freaked out over that stage production of the SCUM Manifesto (which itself wasn’t meant to be read literally, afaik).
Ugh, yes. I remember the time I described Kolkata as Kali’s “cult center” in casual conversation. A thousand floor Legos to whoever wrote Temple of Doom
Y’know, for the longest time, I tended to take the word “cult” literally when it wasn’t meant that way. E.g., hearing Dune called a “cult film”, back when there was all the buzz about Sting being in it, playing some lord or other. I read a review and was bewildered, as it didn’t sound like any cult I’d heard of (which, at the time, was Scientology, the Moonies, and the Krishnas, period). Later, when I understood that the metaphor was supposed to mean “story with a highly devoted fan following”, I still didn’t get it, as the whole story seemed opaque and unappealing to me. So it took me awhile to grasp the non-literal meanings of it.
To this day, I’m still nonplussed that anyone would say there’s a “Cult of Mac”, as there’s nothing slavish or irrational about liking a sleek, reliable computer that you just have to take out of the box, plug in and turn on to get it working. I don’t worship Steve Jobs, after all…I just like my friggin’ PowerBook. Is that so wrong???
Now, as for the cultishness of MRAs…I grant you they don’t have a charismatic leader, unless there’s something wildly compelling about grizzly old grumps that I’m unaware of. I think in their case, it’s more the dogma that’s seductive, rather than any single leader. And the fact that ranting, raving, and self-delusion are actively encouraged in that particular circle jerk. The wankier, the better, seems to be the unspoken motto.
“It just seems like such a douchey thing to whine about. The usual statistic you hear is that false rape accusations make up around 3-4% of all reported rapes. I wonder if that 3-4% includes victims who were later coerced or intimidated into dropping the charges?”
Eh, I’m inclined to guess not. Or at least not many. Because the FBI data, which is from police departments reporting their “unfounded” rape reports, is about twice that. And “unfounded” does include dropped charges, cops decided ere wasn’t enough evidence // no actual crime, etc.
What I don’t know is what percent of those false reports where honest mistakes — accidental wrong ID, a result of psychosis (contra, I have no idea what percent of not actually false reports are discounted because the victim is psychotic so it must be a delusion…it’s probably a lot higher), other cases where the victim honest to fucking goodness believed the person ze accused was zir rapist. And, while technically false reports, those aren’t wtf the MRM is one about when hey claim women INTENTIONALLY file false reports.
FTR, I firmly believe that the risk of a psychotic person reporting a crime that didn’t happen in no way at all excuses cops defaulting to assuming it didn’t. If it turns out in the course of a standard investigation that no crime occurred, it may get counted as a false report, by goddamnit it had better be treated like any other report. This is me having a small fit that crazy = cannot be believed because FFS I’m nuts, not lying (can you tell this is annoying me currently?)
Bina — mac lover high five! The laptop I got out of HS died thanks to the TSA, dropped it on a corner or something, I figured it was just cosmetic damage and booted it…fan was dead, burned out the CPU, left it as useful as a paperweight. Got stuck with a desktop PC for a bit, bought my MacBook Pro (I justified the cost as needing the real graphic card for games and design) — 7 years, one beer in the keyboard, one ass landing on it from some height, two crashes to the floor and a broken fan and SuperDrive later, it’s still my tank. Worth every penny. If that makes me a cultist, so fucking be it.
It’s so, so fucked-up how MRA:s believe that making a false rape report is something a woman would do for shits and giggles. Let’s say I’ve had a one-night-stand. Let’s say I wake up the next day and I’m all like “geez, what was I thinking, had sex with that guy?” and all embarrassed about it. What should I do?
1. Do nothing, be taunted a bit by my friends, and then everyone forgets about it, or
2. Make a false rape report, be relentlessly interrogated, be considered an evil lying bitch by lots of people, possibly having to appear at a trial where I will be even more blamed, and never ever be allowed to just forget about it?
Isn’t it quite obvious that even if we assume for the sake of argument that I’m a terribly egoist who care nothing about the poor guy, only about my own interests, number 1 is to prefer?
Someone might argue that if I come from a terribly conservative culture where it’s a huge no-no to have a one-night-stand or even to have sex before marriage I might have more of an incentive to lie, but I don’t think so, because those same cultures are always terribly victim-blaming when it comes to rape. In that case, I really ought to pretend at all costs that nothing sexual happened at all. Claim that the guy is lying if it comes to my family’s attention that he says he’s had sex with me, but hope that this never does get to their attention, and just say nothing at all in the first place. (There’s a reason there’s a market for “hymen plastic surgery”… wouldn’t exist if girls overall were willing to make false rape accusations when they regretted sex, and if this was an easy option for girls from conservative families.)
So really, it doesn’t make sense at all. It’s like men who go on about all these false rape accusations live in some alternate universe where a) rape accusations are always believed, and b) rape victims are celebrated and glorified, so that everyone has a reason to want to be one, or at least treated no differently at all from non-rape victims.
Maintainin a nice long crowbar away from the actual term and its formal meaning, there’s certainly something very unique about mac culture. Charismatic leader, obviously, and there’s a communal aspect to it that you don’t see with other technologies. I remember someone telling me how happy she felt whenever she saw someone with those white iPod earbuds and how they were all one big family.