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Men’s Rights subreddit mod blames “Not Me” for Occidental College vigilantism

The diabolical Not Me strikes the Men's Rights subreddit yet again
The diabolical Not Me strikes the Men’s Rights subreddit yet again

Some updates on the Occidental College situation.

First, for those who didn’t see my post yesterday, a quick recap: Yesterday, Men’s Rights Redditors discovered that Occidental College has an online form that allows victims of and witnesses to sexual violence to report the incidents anonymously.

Although the information is being collected to track trends, and no one will be charged with anything as a result of such a report, a number of Men’s Rights subreddit regulars decided it would be a great idea to flood Occidental College with false reports to basically break the system, and they suggested this to much acclaim; others proudly reported that they’d sent in bogus reports.

So what has happened since then? The story has been picked up by a number of sites, including Gawker, Business Insider, RawStory, and LAist. In a followup post, Adam Weinsten of Gawker confirmed that Occidental College had indeed been hit with some 400 bogus rape reports in the past 36 hours — that is, after posts encouraging false reports appeared on 4chan and the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Meanwhile, on the Men’s Rights subreddit, after belatedly realizing that this whole thing makes them look kind of bad, the subreddit’s mods are trying their best to make the whole embarrassing thing go away — and not really doing a great job of it.

The first mod to say anything publicly was sillymod, whose initial reaction to the calls to flood Occidental with false reports of rape was to boldly announce that … the mods really weren’t going to be doing anything about it. In a post titled “With regards to Occidental College’s ‘rape report form,’” Sillymod wrote:

some people are claiming that it violates the Reddit TOS. It is not clear to me that it does, and I have not removed the article yet. But I will assume that Reddit admins will get involved at some point. So be it. At least then we can get a definitive ruling on whether it breaks the TOS.

What leadership! A true profile in courage.

Sillymod went on to note that the headline of the post he wasn’t going to remove was actually completely wrong in implying that people were going to get charged with crimes after being anonymously reported, and then made a few suggestions:

As always, when something gets you outraged – pause, take a few deep breaths, and then think of the most productive action to take. Don’t knee-jerk your response like feminists do. Do you want to be viewed the same as Big Red?

It might seem a tad ironic — or perhaps completely and mind-bogglingly hypocritical — to bring up, as an example of a person behaving badly, a women who was the victim of online MRA vigilantes when trying to cool off the online MRA vigilantes in your own subreddit, but never mind, because a couple of hours later Sillymod returned with a new response to the Occidental College thing.

First, he removed the thread from the subreddit. (Note: removing a thread on Reddit doesn’t make it go away; it just removes it from the subreddit’s index.)

Then, in a new thread entitled “‘Why did sillymod remove the Occidental College post?’ Let me tell you why,” he decided to blame the whole thing on trolls.

So I was reviewing the post and the multitude of reports on it. I noticed a sad trend.

I noticed a lot of very young accounts encouraging bad behaviour, I noticed that the post was made by a self-proclaimed “shitlord”. I noticed that there was a lot of misconception/misinformation about the form in general, whether willfully spread to take advantage of people choosing not to read these things for themselves or not.

In the end, I can’t help but feel that we were trolled, and that is why I removed it.

Sillymod, who apparently doesn’t research anything before posting, added:

Some people have alleged that 4Chan was involved, which would support the idea that we were trolled.

Yeah, the dude who posted the original thread said explicitly he’d found out about it on 4chan, and there are screenshots of the 4chan thread floating around that would take all of 5 minutes to find.

In any case, Sillymod’s “argument” — or, rather, his assertion — that the Men’s Rights subreddit was the victims of “trolls” with “very young accounts encouraging bad behaviour” was quickly shown to be utter nonsense:

johndoe42 40 points 17 hours ago* (123|83)  Bullshit. The biggest comments "encouraging" bad behavior were all long time contributring /r/mensrights members.  /u/blueoak9, whose account basically solely consists of comments in this subreddit, made the 100+ upvoted top comment "The quickest way to shut this one down is to anonymously report random women and let them sweat in the hot seat. This will be over before it begins."  /u/froggymorning, who had a 50+ upvoted comment noting that she filled out a false report is a longtime /r/mensrights member and has had comments with hundreds of upvotes.  /u/muffinizer1 also claimed to have "fun" filling one out. Also a long time MRA member (has had comments with 5-25 upvotes on this subreddit older than 20 days).  /u/whitethrone is also not a new MR member, who made the 20+ upvoted comment "Step one: Get a list of every 'Feminist' at Occidental College who supported this system. Step two: Anonymously report them for rape."  I know this looks pitchforky but you didn't have to lie about members of this subreddit's involvement in "encouraging bad behavior." I fucking hate revisionism and this subreddit needs reform badly. The "a few bad apples" defense is not going to work anymore.

In the discussion that followed, a Men’s Rights regular called oneiorosgrip tried to use another specious argument in order to suggest that the whole controversy had been ginned up by evil feminist trolls. All those screenshots showing terrible comments with lots of upvotes? Those comments were, she suggested, upvoted by feminists to make the subreddit look bad:

So what you’re telling me is that initially, just in time for SRS to post it as “evidence” that MRAs were flooding Occidental with false reports, a comment with less than 60 upvotes was the top comment in the sub… and despite the fact that the comments you cite represent less 0.00002% of the sub’s population, you claim that single moment in time proves MRAs flooded occidental with accusations.

Weird, because by the time I discovered the thread, a number of the comments I screenshotted had been up for 15 hours, and one of the worst had a lot more than 60 upvotes.

SirSkeptic 167 points 15 hours ago (209|45) That's awesome. I'd like to see one sent with the name of every member of the Dean of Students Office as the offender. Hey, it's anonymous and no evidence is required. Sometimes that's the only way fanatics learn.

15 hours is a pretty long “single moment in time.”

But hey, Sillymod and oneiorosgrip have their stories, and they’re sticking with them. Who are you going to believe, them — or your lying eyes?

Men’s Rights Activists: No matter what terrible things they do, it’s always someone else’s fault.

The MensRights mods have begun to try to clean up the mess — or at least remove the evidence of it. They’ve deleted most of the comments I linked to yesterday (Always Be Screenshotting). Has anyone involved in this faced any repercussions beyond having a comment or two deleted? I sent the mods a message to ask if they’d banned any of those who’d made those comments, and Nicemod replied:

I don’t see any reason why we should tell you anything at all.

I’m guessing that means “no.” But I wouldn’t really have to guess if they simply told me. Masters of Public Relations, these guys are not.

There’s more discussion of all this going on in the AgainstMensRights subreddit (which I feel I should mention again is not actually against men’s rights, but against the so-called Men’s Rights movement).

Here’s a discussion of another thread — which I hadn’t seen — in which Men’s Rights redditors talked about spamming Occidental College with false reports of rape. There are screenshots.

Here’s a thread with screenshots featuring our old friend ThePigman, an MRA blogger and long-time contributor to the Men’s Rights subreddit, proudly prooclaiming that he’d submitted a bogus rape report.

And here is a particularly damning screenshot of the entire Men’s Rights Occidental College thread some five hours after it went up. The second comment on the page, then three hours old and with several dozen upvotes, provides two links to lists of names of Occidental College staffers to serve as potential targets of false accusations. (It was later deleted, but SirSkeptic’s original comment was around for me to screenshot it 11 hours later.)

lists

This, sadly, is what Men’s Rights activism looks like.

Oh, and MRB2012 was still posting in the Men’s Rights subreddit as of 5 hours ago, so it looks as though he hasn’t been banned even though he provided his MRA comrades with a specific list of individuals to falsely accuse of rape. And I have no way to check if he has been banned since then because the mods won’t speak to the evil Man Boobz.

Way to go, mods. Great job!

One last thing: Gawker’s followup post included a great quote from Occidental College sociologist Lisa Wade that I think puts the whole espisode in context perfectly:

The men targeting Occidental’s anonymous report form are mad that women are being listened to, that men’s voices are no longer given so much power that they can effectively drown out the voices of women. They’re mad because they’re not the only ones that matter anymore. I get it. To them, it really does feel unfair. Something really is changing. They ARE being demoted — from a superior to an equal — and it feels wrong to them because they’re so used to being privileged …

[The backlash is] a good thing. It means we’re winning the fight. They’re gonna have to get used to it.

I think she’s absolutely right. It’s going to take a few years — well, probably more than a few — and we’re going to see a lot more outbursts like this, but these aren’t the battle cries of a rising “human rights” movement. They’re the tantrums of small subset of the male population that can’t accept that the world has changed.

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kittehserf
6 years ago

But let a man (the Manlier™ the better) be “engulfed” by a woman, and ZOMG MISANDRY!!! Men are oppressed! Evil Unwomanly Women have usurped the prerogative! It’s no joke!!!

Or if they flip the coin, it shows the man wasn’t Manly™ enough, because he wasn’t up for it (herp derp) and Real Manly Men™ always are, and all the dudebros are saying “Half your luck, wish she’d rape me*, hur hur.”

*Assuming she’s an Angelina Jolie clone, of course.

Robert Ramirez
6 years ago

This is exactly the shit that gets me about these troglodytes. In their minds if more women are succeeding academically and less men are…then it is the fault of women that men are not. If there are more men in prison than there are men in college then in their minds that is also the fault of women, if men commit rape then of course in their minds that is the fault of women. Nothing is ever their fault…hell I bet they blame how badly George Lucas messed up the Star Wars prequels on women.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

The message it sends me is that they don’t want anyone reporting being raped by a man – not ever, not anonymously, not even when the rapist isn’t named. They don’t want institutions looking at how to make safer places and systems for people (principally women, of course). They don’t want any hindrance for rapists.

Do they think this out? I doubt it, but that’s what it comes down to.

And I think this is why I find this whole mess so appalling. I mean, this anonymous online form is about as toothless as you can get. No one is getting punished and no one is going to jail. And, the stated that. Right in the first paragraph of the form. There’s no way that a large number of people could just not read that. I mean, there is absolutely no reason for them to be outraged about this. This could help male rape victims, who they claim to care about. Why would anyone be so outraged about this that they’d send in false reports to “break the system?” The only reason I can come to is that they just don’t want rapes reported at all. They want to silence rape victims.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

There are a LOT of people who want to make reporting rape as difficult as possible, believing that this way, only the truest of the true true people get through.

When, in fact, this is bullshit and just means a lot get left behind. The disability system works the same way, in my experience.

dlouwe
dlouwe
6 years ago

This is exactly the shit that gets me about these troglodytes. In their minds if more women are succeeding academically and less men are…then it is the fault of women that men are not.

When women excel (ie: academically), it’s taken as proof that there is a bais in the system.
When men excel (ie: everywhere else), it’s taken as proof that men are superior.

how do I consistency?¯(°_o)/¯

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Oh! By the way! I did the next borg critter: the secretary bird!

kittehserf
6 years ago

how do I consistency?¯(°_o)/¯

Expecting consistency from men is misandry!

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

If you’re curious as to where I’m from, btw, that would be Texas,

Oh. I am my complete lack of surprise.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I figured you would share my reaction, hellkell.

Brooked
Brooked
6 years ago

I enjoyed this comment on the SPLC article:

James Michael McDaniel • 3 hours ago −
My life experiences as a lawyer, para-medic, deputy sheriff have taught me that there are three things that even a white MAN should fear from the law. Divorce related child custody issues, accusations of rape or child sexual misconduct.

And those very three things happen to be the MRAs’ main talking points and key examples of grave injustice, what a surprise.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“vomiting-drunk (which is sooooo sexy)”

So sexy as to demand a blowjob between heaves! (Yes, really)

LBT — speaking of the disability system, the state just demanded reeval for welfare, guess what my psych did? Suddenly it isn’t no/mild impairment all across the board but maybe I am moderately impaired in some ways. Of course, she still downplayed everything (I can consistently and usefully interact with the general public cuz I hand out Halloween candy). And just why do I think I can’t even work part time when I can design a website and she can’t! (Apparently basic HTML skills aren’t common to our generation? Cuz I tried that one, that this really isn’t a rare skill set among those of us who grew up around computers)

In any case, I’m actually not blaming her for the difference between the state form and what they sent the lawyer. Note that last pronoun — they — as in including the meds psych from hell. Who has to dominate conversation and is right about everything cuz she’s been doing this longer than I’ve been alive! (You’d think she might’ve learned something in 30 years eh?)

Oh and I am up to 5 Dx’s btw, I feel special. /rant

kittehserf
6 years ago

Special kingy non-contact hugs, Argenti.

I hope mentioning vomiting-drunk wasn’t triggering. I knew that’s what one of your rapist exes did, but had forgotten when I typed it as a general thing, if that makes sense.

kittehserf
6 years ago

OT again, how does one pronounce ze/zie and zir? I use your pronouns when I’m telling Mum stuff about fishies and kitties and MB stuff, but they don’t come out sounding right.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Argenti – I just got home, but I can check the links now. Give me a minute, I’ll email you when I’m done and leave editorial comments.

Ally S
6 years ago

James Michael McDaniel • 3 hours ago −
My life experiences as a lawyer, para-medic, deputy sheriff have taught me that there are three things that even a white MAN should fear from the law. Divorce related child custody issues, accusations of rape or child sexual misconduct.

It’s interesting how the statement “even a white MAN should fear from the law” actually implies that white men face the least trouble from the legal system.

leftwingfox
6 years ago

*Obviously the part where she’s become an MRM scapegoat isn’t funny, but the fact that the best they can do as far as proving we live in a misandrist culture is to point to a random student who got a little carried away in the heat of the moment. Much cry for the poor oppressed men.

Srsly.

I’ll be completely honest. When I heard “Big Red”, I was half expecting it to be a menstruation reference, and was actually relieved a little to hear that it was “only” being creepily fixated on someone.

It’s not exactly a rational relief though. Is demonizing someone to justify a campaign of harassment and abuse really any better than revealing a deep-seated disgust for an entire class of people? It’s like being afraid of being served shit soup, and relieved that it’s “only” a shit sandwich.

dallasapple
dallasapple
6 years ago

Those lacking spine will be spineless.

dallasapple
dallasapple
6 years ago

Its misandry they got caught!

rjjspesh
6 years ago

Oh my gawd. Check out this comment under the business insider article about the MRAs flooding the online form:
“Can anyone be sure who is doing all the false reporting. Given the tactics admitted by quite a few at radfem, it could just as easily be feminists doing the deed and pointing the finger at mra’s”

Riiiiiiight. MRA reddit users openly gloating about submitting the reports, and this guy’s answer it ‘it could be feminists trying to make MRAs look bad’. Classic MRA paranoia.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/mens-rights-activists-make-false-rape-reports-at-occidental-2013-12

kittehserf
6 years ago

A grand case of NotMe, isn’t it? They start this thing but their first instinct is to lie about it and try pointing the finger elsewhere.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kitteh — at this point, I think the ceiling would have to fall, or bad things happen to fishies, for my mood to get any worse. I’ve gone into robot mode more or less, to avoid being a panicked dangerous mess over SSI and welfare forms and my psych and ARGH THINKING HURTS. (And a *mubble mubble mubble* that’s causing scheduling and planning chaos! and my mother and I may be doing Boston and Philly in less than a week and my pharm student has no idea if ze’ll be moving for residency and ARGH LIFE IS CHAOS!)

Oh and where’s pecunium been lately? Working. Because Christmas. Which cannot be over soon enough, I am so sick of being my father’s personal gift wrapper RIGHT NOW and DO THIS and ARGHHH (sensing a trend here?)

In other words, no worries.

Alice — thanks, I got the Islamophoba links formatted and then called for dinner, so I sorta lied about them not being formatted. But blame my mother!

Auggz — yep.

Kitteh — you know how us weird Americans say zebra? Like that.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Extra kitty hugs and king hugs if you want ’em, Argenti. Shitpiles on shitpiles, bleargh.

USian zebra is the best explanation, now I know how to say it, thank ‘ee.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

When women excel (ie: academically), it’s taken as proof that there is a bais in the system.
When men excel (ie: everywhere else), it’s taken as proof that men are superior.

how do I consistency?¯(°_o)/¯

It’s consistent, in its own way: men succeed because they are superior, so when they’re not succeeding and women are, the only possible explanation is bias. It can’t be that women and men are equal!

My life experiences as a lawyer, para-medic, deputy sheriff

Pell?

there are three things that even a white MAN should fear from the law.

So he admits that non-white people and non-men have even more things to be afraid of.

They’re *still* blaming feminists? Bless their hearts.

Come on, Auggz, you’ve been around this blog long enough to know that feminists are to blame for everything.

Pteryxx
Pteryxx
6 years ago

I’ll just leave this here… Lisa Wade of Occidental.

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/19/why_trolls_spammed_a_colleges_rape_reporting_system/

kittehserf
6 years ago

Aaaaaaaaagh not more of Lisa “don’t call it mutilation!” Wade, please.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

LBT, the secretary bird is FANTASTIC! Thank you so much! You are awesome.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

“Big Red” reminded me of this novel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_Red

When it comes to science fiction, I prefer a professional scientist with mediocre novel-writing skills, rather than a skilled writer with loose approach to science.

Also, I would like to see MRAs sending threats to the female Utahraptor protagonist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dromie_scale.png

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

LBT, I am truly a reservoir of non essential and strange trivia.

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@LBT:

“Dude. You can’t just diminish folks who aren’t “Caucasian” and then claim you’re not trying to do that! Get your head out of your ass and get off your soapbox. The first social justice activists to even pop into my damn head were Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King Jr. You know. Black folks. And then you’ve got Mother Jones, and Gandhi, and”

Seriously, though, not only was that not at all my intention(to diminish anyone), I actually do agree with you: where would social justice be without great figures such as MLK, Mandela, Gandhi, etc.?

“Dude, don’t play coy. This isn’t the first time you’ve complained about people getting trolled “just for being white.” This isn’t a single mistake, this is a running theme with you. Head. Ass. Remove.”

Not playing coy at all. I have made maybe one or two other comments and they were only passive comparisons & observations and not intended as soapboxing or anything.

“You keep saying ‘unintentionally’ as though that makes it any better.”
No, I don’t think it does, and I did, and will again, own up to the fact that I messed up, alright? I do realize that I made mistakes, and I am indeed sorry that I offended folks.

Now, *hopefully*, we can *finally* move on?

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@Brooked: I know, right?

@Argenti: Sorry you had to go thru all that. Virtual hugs if you want ’em.

@auggz: Sadly, nobody who follows this blog should be surprised at this point.

@Pteryxx: Thanks for posting that, btw, that was a good article. =)

@Emily: “So he admits that non-white people and non-men have even more things to be afraid of.” But not for the reasons we would; I suspect that he just doesn’t want to deal with the real extent of the problems with the U.S. justice system and would prefer to stay in his bubble.

I think that we, however, recognize that there is indeed a problem with structural racism & other bigotries within the justice system, and that serious reform of such is indeed sorely *needed*, not just legally, but socially as well.

leftwingfox
6 years ago

@arcticape: Good book! I was just thinking about that the other day in response to the awfulness of the Walking with Dinosaurs movie.

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@Arctic Ape: My own sci-fi tastes are pretty varied, TBH: I really, really liked Star Wars & Star Trek as a kid. The ’70s version of “Buck Rogers” and Roger Allen’s “Allies & Aliens” are a couple of my favorites in terms of books.

And I could go on for hours about the cool stuff in the comics, too(especially Marvel, IMO, but DC as well). =)

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@Ally S: “It’s interesting how the statement “even a white MAN should fear from the law” actually implies that white men face the least trouble from the legal system.”

Yeah, that is true, but as I pointed out, I doubt he reached this conclusion in the same way that we did; MRAs are just upset about what they see as a loss of (unearned!) privilege, that’s all.

Brooked
Brooked
6 years ago

@Ally

It’s interesting how the statement “even a white MAN should fear from the law” actually implies that white men face the least trouble from the legal system.

I don’t think he’s implying that laws are meant to protect and serve white men, I think he’s saying outright by complaining about the few circumstances white men may be adversely affected by the legal system.

I posted the original quote because in a better world it would be outrageous for someone with a legal and law enforcement background to nonchalantly say shit like that publicly. This isn’t some goofy Redditt poster with a silly internet handle, he’s speaking from a position of authority, assuming that he’s not lying about his background.

I don’t think he was a troll either, he just assumes that any reasonable person (aka people just like him) would be mostly concerned with the unfairness of divorce law and the tragic effects of false rape and child abuse charges. This blog has made me more aware of MRA rhetoric, which is a mixed blessing when comes to internet comment boards.

katz
6 years ago

To anyone who needs a little pick-me-up: Here’s a grumpy 1995 article about how all this newfangled interwebs stuff isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@Brooked: That makes sense to me, having thought about it.

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