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Men's Rights Redditors flood Occidental College's online rape reporting form with false accusations

Last night, a regular commenter in the Men’s Rights subreddit — inspired by a thread on 4chan — posted a link to an online form on r/mensrights under the headline “Feminists at Occidental College created an online form to anonymously report rape/sexual assault. You just fill out a form and the person is called into the office on a rape charge. The “victim” never has to prove anything or reveal their identity.”

This headline is not only inflammatory but untrue: Yes, Occidental College has an online form that allows victims of or witnesses to sexual assault to report the incidents to the school. But, as a statement at the top of the form makes clear, the point is to collect data on how much sexual violence there is at the school, who the victims are, and so on.

If the person reporting the crime names the alleged perpetrator,

a member of the Dean of Students Office will meet with that person to share that the person was named in an anonymous report, review the Sexual Misconduct Policy, and inform the person that if the allegations are true, the behavior needs to cease immediately. Information shared in this form alone will not result in anyone going through the grievance process.

I’ve put the last bit in bold to emphasize a point: No one will be charged with anything based only on information gathered using this form. As would be clear to anyone who thought about the matter for more than a few seconds, it’s rather difficult to investigate, much less prove, a rape if you don’t actually know who the victim is.

Somehow this rather elementary fact eluded the OP, and virtually all of those who left the hundreds of comments on the popular post.

Indeed, a host of Men’s Rights Redditors were so convinced of the innate evil of the online form they all had the same bright idea: let’s flood the school with false reports of rape and break the form. Here are some of their comments. (There are more in the thread.) Note the number of upvotes each of these suggestions got. (Click the images to see the comments in context on Reddit.)

SirSkeptic 167 points 15 hours ago (209|45)  That's awesome.  I'd like to see one sent with the name of every member of the Dean of Students Office as the offender. Hey, it's anonymous and no evidence is required.  Sometimes that's the only way fanatics learn.

blueoak9 83 points 15 hours ago (129|46)  The quickest way to shut this one down is to anonymously report random women and let them sweat in the hot seat. This will be over before it begins.  How are they any less expendable, and more to the point, above suspicion that the men?  And if the school treats them any differently, there's your Title 1X complaint.

WhiteThrone 15 points 12 hours ago (24|9)  Step one: Get a list of every 'Feminist' at Occidental College who supported this system.  Step two: Anonymously report them for rape.  Step three: Watch them squirm as their lives are hanging in the balance over a false rape charge.  Step four : Shutdown the BS online form.

Jonathan_Taylor 26 points 11 hours ago (30|4)  I'd just like to say that I don't condone using the form to make false accusations against officials. Flooding the forms with other ridiculous things as a means to demonstrate how ridiculous the form is, on the other hand...

While a few commenters stood up to point out that in fact the school will not charge anyone with anything as a result of anonymous information gathered by the form, they were outnumbered by  Men’s Rightsers gleefully reporting that they in fact had reported false information. Among them:

froggymorning 46 points 15 hours ago (59|13)  I've already filled one out.      permalink     source     parent     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]Muffinizer1 6 points 7 hours ago (9|4)  Was kind of fun. I swear to god though, if they track us down it would be terribly ironic, however it's mildly likely.

Your_Bacon_Counselor 5 points 6 hours ago (6|1)  Looks like there is an epidemic at Occidental, particularly female-on-female assault.  Even though most of these will be scrubbed, I promise the numbers will be kept and used to justify programs.

 

unexpecteditem 6 points 9 hours ago (11|5)  I like this. Where can I fill it in. I've been raped all over the place. Let's get submitting boys? Has anyone been raped by the dean of women's studies? Surely somebody. I find her a bit creepy.  I've also been raped by the president of the US. And of course by everyone I don't like. Heck, why don't I just go down the phone book. I've been raped by everybody. There. That ought to do it. Nothing like a practical demonstration of the absurdity of an idea.

gonecatfishin 8 points 11 hours ago (9|1)  Filling this out is fun!

It’s one thing to criticize an anonymous reporting system because of its potential for abuse; this is something else entirely.

The post has been up for 17 hours at this point, with more than 700 net upvotes, and some of the calls for “breaking” the form have been up for nearly as long. The moderators of Men’s Rights have done nothing to stop their subreddit being used to interfere with a school’s attempt to assist rape survivors — including men.

“Breaking” a school’s rape reporting mechanism is apparently a form of Men’s Rights activism.

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alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@marinaliteyears: It’s alright…..I’m not totally perfect in that regard, either, TBH(that, and I’ll admit that sometimes, I’m just not all that good at getting my points across…..).

CassandraSays
6 years ago

I like “ass-backwards” as a description of worldviews that are not just wrong, but comically, absurdly wrong.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Ok, regardless who had the gun, there’s something amiss in that story. If he had, he missed the word “I” (ok, grammar is misandry), if she did…he went out to confront her?

Show of hands from people with experience around guns, you going to go confront someone who’s yelling and waving one? *sits on hands*

(In other news, my brother’s latest gun will turn 115 next year, which is kinda cool)

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
6 years ago

Argenti aertheri@
Well, this guy WAS presumably an MRA, So in his ‘Manworld’ women are too weak for guns! And men have to be brave and Stand up always, then get blamed! (even if he managed to get out of it with his wit!)

No actually, I have no idea, and I agree the story is.. at best very flaky sounding. It sounds kind of exaggerated or fabricated.

@CassandraSays
Ahah. I like it. It rolls well In my mind actually. I’m surprised I didn’t think of using that phrase more.

kittehserf
6 years ago

My problem with “delusion”, apart from splash damage, is that it implies these shitweasels don’t have any control over their attitudes to women. It ignores the willfull stupidity + hatred element. I just don’t buy that, however toxic their upbringing may – may – have been.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

marinaliteyears — oh fuck, another thought. I was coming at it from the perspective of someone raised around guns, who can figure out how to fire even weird and old firing mechanisms. And was taught gun safety when I was barely older than Falconer’s twins (at that age it’s “do not, ever, touch a gun, get an adult if you see one”) I may not be the collector my father and brother are, nor shoot with any regularity, but I know my way around guns, and more importantly, gun safety. This guy may not. He may’ve honestly thought she wouldn’t know to cock the firing pin (a required step in shooting it). Which is just…getting a gun should be more than a background check, a gun safety course should be required too. Cuz that sort of stupidity is how people get killed

Oh and you can just call me Argenti, the Aertheri part is optional. On that note, idk if I did my usual introduction. I use gender neutral pronouns — ze // zir — what’re your preferred pronouns?

pecunium
6 years ago

Ok, regardless who had the gun, there’s something amiss in that story. If he had, he missed the word “I” (ok, grammar is misandry), if she did…he went out to confront her?

Show of hands from people with experience around guns, you going to go confront someone who’s yelling and waving one?

This is why I assumed he had the gun, esp. because of how he characterised her.

He may’ve honestly thought she wouldn’t know to cock the firing pin (a required step in shooting it).

Depends on the weapon. A modern DA/SA auto, which he keeps, “in battery” is ready to go if the safety is off (and modern means post 1929 or so, with the Walter PPK).

If he has something like a Glock there is no separate safety, and the weapon is ready to go if it’s in battery.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Argh, more assumptions from one familiar with gun safety. Ya keep the safety et al on! Fuck, when we were kids the guns were either locked away, or had those stretchy band safeties that require adult strength to remove.

In any case, that would only make it less likely he’d confront her though. Well, by any logic, which this story is lacking.

Justin Hale
6 years ago

Sure you might not face criminal charges but you will be brought into the Dean’s office and read the riot act and if you don’t think the names will go into some kind of database you’re delusional. There’s a reason courts don’t accept anonymous allegations. This is so open for abuse it’s not even funny.

katz
6 years ago

Tyger, tyger, smokin’ hot
in the shady parking lot
What immense amount of pot
can match the fearful price you got?

LONG LIVE THE TIGERS AND WEED MEME!

Ally S
6 years ago

Tyger, tyger, smokin’ hot
in the shady parking lot
What immense amount of pot
can match the fearful price you got?

You guys are the best.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Arctic Ape — I intend to do a Manboobz Mythos post on the Borg about the tigers and pot, can I quote your poem? (With credit and link, unless you desire otherwise)

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Show of hands from people with experience around guns, you going to go confront someone who’s yelling and waving one?

No sir, I am most definitely NOT confronting them. Getting shot is not my list of Things I Need To Do Before I Die.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

My problem with “delusion”, apart from splash damage, is that it implies these shitweasels don’t have any control over their attitudes to women. It ignores the willfull stupidity + hatred element. I just don’t buy that, however toxic their upbringing may – may – have been.

Just to clear up my own questions on the matter, I looked up the word on Wikipedia. I got:

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders including schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression.

[…]

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1913 book General Psychopathology. These criteria are:

* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Furthermore, when a false belief involves a value judgment, it is only considered as a delusion if it is so extreme that it cannot be, or never can be proven true. For example: a man claiming that he flew into the sun and flew back home. This would be considered a delusion, unless he was speaking figuratively. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

Unfortunately, the entry doesn’t distinguish clearly between pathological (illness-related) and non-pathological delusions. But I did see a lot of things that sound an awful lot like what MRAs think, say and do in the general description and among the various types of delusions (see the full entry and you’ll know what I mean). The overlap is hard to deny. E.g., the idea that feminism oppresses men, while certainly not a product of mental illness, is a common delusion in the MRM. They think they are persecuted, and they rant about it at length to reinforce that idea (think of all those many-thousand-word screeds they write!). It is a belief that they hold with strong conviction, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ditto their views on rape. You can cite all kinds of statistics proving them wrong, and still they glom on to that patently untrue notion that most rape reports are false like a Baptist to the gospels. Likewise, their willful misinterpretation of studies and statistics that blatantly contradict them…they literally see things that aren’t there. And they believe in them with cultish fervor.

So “delusion” isn’t a totally wrong word to use; much of their behavior definitely qualifies as the non-pathological type of delusional thinking/acting/talk. But you’re right that it does no favors for those who suffer from hallucinations, OCD and the like. And given the MRAs’ own ugly predilection for stigmatizing even the slightest manifestations of mental illness, and how they throw the word “crazy” at anyone who disagrees with them even slightly, it’s a most uncomfortable association. One that any decent person under psychiatric counselling or care would be understandably eager to distance themselves from. Including me, whom they would stigmatize for having been severely depressed 20 years ago, even though I’ve been quite well since. My only delusion during that brain-sick year was a firm belief that I was a dull nobody who was utterly unlovable and better off dead. (Of course, they being MRAsshats and I being a feminist, they’d no doubt say that this delusion was actually a truth.)

titianblue
6 years ago

I’m just taking the MRA at his word:

Psycho bitch girlfriend decided that a day long argument was warranted after I said the wrong thing to her.

So the couple have spent the day arguing. He blames her. He has no respect or liking for her.

Well she is yelling at me while I’m trying to sleep and then decided to take my gun.

She is yelling at him. He is trying to sleep. She takes his gun.

I go to confront her in the living room

So she took the gun and she went to the living room, presumably to get away from him. He goes after her to confront her.

and she calls the cops after threatening me.

So she calls the cops. She’s the one with the gun, threatening him with the gun and yet she calls the cops. Could it be that she was afraid of him? The man who she went to the other room to get away from, having taken his gun? The man who followed her to confront her?

I call the cops as well and wait for them to arrive. Long story short, I did talk my way out of them arresting me for domestic violence because she couldn’t keep her story straight. So there’s that.

And surprise, surprise, he talks his way out of any problem with the police while she is not believed.

Yep, call it bias if you like but this has all the red flags for gaslighting and abuse. Hope she got clear of him.

kittehserf
6 years ago

I think the Wiki article’s first paragraph makes the important distinction:

As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

False information and dogma definitely describe these arsewhines.

titianblue
6 years ago

Bina, if you talk about MRAs being willfully self-deluding, you’ll probably not have a problem, here.

kittehserf
6 years ago

titianblue – and notice he never tells us what “I said the wrong thing” means. How trivial he makes it sound, and like a one-off.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Bina, if you talk about MRAs being willfully self-deluding, you’ll probably not have a problem, here.

That’s exactly what I mean — thank you! I hope that’s not a problem here, because I honestly can’t think of anything better to call it. Except, when I’m in a foul mood, FUCKWITTERY.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Sure you might not face criminal charges but you will be brought into the Dean’s office and read the riot act and if you don’t think the names will go into some kind of database you’re delusional.

Haha, yeah. It’s not like most colleges rally around the accused, pressure the victim to use the college’s judicial system instead of involving the actual police, or do absolutely nothing to protect the victim or punish the assailant that it’s the victim who ends up dropping out. Hell, the college in question certainly didn’t create this reporting form in response to a recent failure to do jack shit about a rape.

Tell me more about how hard college is for rapists 🙁

CassandraSays
6 years ago

“I’m going to kill you” could technically be described as saying the wrong thing, as could “you’re a worthless bitch”. All kinds of things which a partner could justifiably take great offense to and want to argue about could be described that way.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Re gaslighting: If that’s not a manufactured type of delusion, I don’t know what is. Brainwashing is proof that often, a deluded state of mind is manufactured by another party. One doesn’t have to be clinically ill in any sense to get that way, either. Or drugged.

kittehserf
6 years ago

You could say MRAs gaslight themselves. The gas in their cases being of the intestinal variety.

kittehserf
6 years ago

“Being read the riot act” refers to a literal thing – the Riot Act being read aloud to crowds to break them up. It’s not the rapist in the Dean’s office having to read it himself.

kittehserf
6 years ago

But I want to know who Andy He Abuse is!

Reminds me of the joke about St Peter asking Forrest Gump what God’s name is, before he lets him into Heaven.

Forrest: Andy.

St Peter: Where’d you get that idea?

Forrest: It’s in the Bible. Andy walks with me, Andy talks with me.

St Peter: Welcome, and enter. Run, Forrest, run!

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

You could say MRAs gaslight themselves. The gas in their cases being of the intestinal variety.

BOOM! Sorry, that was just me, lighting a candle rather than cursing the stinky darkness.

So he thinks a stern talking to is too awful for rapists? Dude.

Nobody talks to Little Big Man. He does all the talking himself. Having to take a talking-to is MISANDRY!!!

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

“Being read the riot act” refers to a literal thing – the Riot Act being read aloud to crowds to break them up.

Golly, that’s quaint…nobody does that anymore. These days, they just send in the infiltrators and the flash-bang grenades. Mind you, they do that with legitimate protest movements that actually stand a chance of changing something for the better, not MRAs.

CassandraSays
6 years ago

Well, I mean, if rapists were scolded in a sufficiently firm tone they might feel bad, and even feel inhibited next time they’re thinking of raping someone. What kind of evil misandrist culture would be OK with stifling a man’s self-expression in that way?

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Sure you might not face criminal charges but you will be brought into the Dean’s office and read the riot act and if you don’t think the names will go into some kind of database you’re delusional. There’s a reason courts don’t accept anonymous allegations. This is so open for abuse it’s not even funny.

Soooo. Again, if a person is named, that person is brought to the Dean’s office, informed that they have been named in this report, then given a lecture about how rape is bad, and asked to stop raping if they have been raping, otherwise, nevermind, just go on your merry way. And that is the extent of what they will face. Period. End of story. No one’s going to jail based on these forms. No one is getting placed in some “database.”

What is happening, is these bozo MRA’s are flooding the school with false rape reports, in attempt to break a system put in place to gather information about the extent of sexual violence on campus. MRAs, who believe that false rape accusations is the social problem of our time, making false rape accusations. Who are also spreading misinformation and downright lies about the purpose and use of the online form.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Yup. The Riot Act was passed in 1715 and repealed in 1967. It was for breaking up gatherings of twelve or more people.

MRA gatherings wouldn’t make the numbers to need it.

katz
6 years ago

MRA gatherings wouldn’t make the numbers to need it.

Not to worry; they’re still covered by drunk and disorderly.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

The Riot Act was passed in 1715 and repealed in 1967. It was for breaking up gatherings of twelve or more people.

By that token, Jesus and his disciples would have been a riot.

And that Act has been dead for as long as I’ve been alive? Pity.

Ally S
6 years ago

If someone made a false accusation against me through that anonymous form, I would definitely be upset, but 1) I won’t actually be assumed to have guilt 2) none of this information is allowed to be shared anywhere else and 3) accusers are often assumed to be lying, “crazy”, etc. anyway so I’m not likely to be automatically assumed to be guilty.

The form is merely intended to help the many victims who don’t report to the authorities. Yes, it can be abused. But MRAs and their ilk use the same exact reasoning to argue for difficult standards for convicting rapists; they think that the presumption of innocence is a necessary safeguard against false conviction that can never be abandoned. Arguing against this anonymous report form just because some people can abuse it is exactly the same as arguing against sending rapists to jail because some people are falsely convicted of rape.

And the argument is especially absurd when you consider that, beyond the leniency inherent in this anonymous report system, a false accusation through the anonymous report form can’t possibly be as harmful as an actual false allegation of rape.

titianblue
6 years ago

Not to worry; they’re still covered by drunk and disorderly.

Also Creating a Public Nuisance

kittehserf
6 years ago

By that token, Jesus and his disciples would have been a riot.

The Romans thought so!

… Suddenly I have an image of John Cleese as the Centurion standing reading the Riot Act.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Oooh, wouldn’t it be cool if every feckin’ PUA trying his shit on got charged with Creating A Public Nuisance? I know, I know, total fantasy, but I love the idea.

Ally S
6 years ago

To clarify what I’m saying, compare this:

“We must always respect the presumption of innocence, even if it leads to some assailants getting away with their crimes.”

To this:

“We must allow victims to anonymously report their victimization to the school, even if some people are falsely accused.”

titianblue
6 years ago

Based on Romer LJ’s judgement In Attorney General v PYA Quarries Ltd. (1957) 2 QB 169

“I do not propose to attempt a more precise definition of a public nuisance than those which emerge from the textbooks and authorities to which I have referred. It is, however, clear, in my opinion, that any nuisance is ‘public’ which materially affects the reasonable comfort and convenience of life of a class of Her Majesty’s subjects.”

I think it could be argued …

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Well, I mean, if rapists were scolded in a sufficiently firm tone they might feel bad, and even feel inhibited next time they’re thinking of raping someone. What kind of evil misandrist culture would be OK with stifling a man’s self-expression in that way?

Ah yes, that reminds me…Ayn Rand talked like that, too. And, interestingly, her inspiration was a rape-murderer who “died yellow”.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I just LOVE the Guy Fawkes mask this new hemorrhoid is using. REVOLUTION! Using the sign co-opted by Anonymous! Only anonymity gets nothing done because SYSTEMIC ABUSE.

You didn’t think this through very hard, did you?

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Oooh, wouldn’t it be cool if every feckin’ PUA trying his shit on got charged with Creating A Public Nuisance? I know, I know, total fantasy, but I love the idea.

Disturbing the Peace could definitely be argued. These guys have openly declared their intention to “Fuck Their Shit Up”; just ask Paul Elam.

kittehserf
6 years ago

that any nuisance is ‘public’ which materially affects the reasonable comfort and convenience of life of a class of Her Majesty’s subjects.”

Ony Her Majesty’s subjects – teach those colonials to go having revolutions. 😉

The joke with using the Guy Fawkes mask is that he was about as much a failure as a revolutionary can be. Didn’t blow up Parliament, was captured and tortured and suffered a horrific execution. Catholics in Britain not only weren’t restored to power or helped in any way, they had centuries more of persecution in store.

Yeah, really encouraging image to use. (I know it comes from V for Vendetta in the short term, but Fawkes? Really?)

CassandraSays
6 years ago

OTOH, the smugness of the facial expression on the mask seems appropriate.

kittehserf
6 years ago

It looks like he overdid the moustache wax and now can’t lose the rictus grin.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Ah, but see, Kittehs, people STILL burn Fawkes in effigy to this very day, PROVING that he spread his revolutionary word and has many followers! Just like the MRM. Or something.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“You could say MRAs gaslight themselves. The gas in their cases being of the intestinal variety.”

Ok, having a gaslighting ex, can we not treat it as a joke? I mean, I totally get you were just going for a chance to make a fart joke at the expense of MRAs, but yeah.

Of course, being in one of those revolution having colonies, all I have to say is PFFFFBBBBT!!

katz
6 years ago

Of course, nobody in a Guy Fawkes mask has a fucking clue who he was or why we’re remembering him, or even whether we’re supposed to be remembering him in a good way or a bad way.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Sorry, Argenti. Intent fail – I wasn’t tryilng to trivialise gaslighting, I meant it in the sense of them lying to themselves, following the “delusional” conversation. The fart joke was tangential. Won’t do it again.

Brooked
Brooked
6 years ago

I finally finished GWW’s typically overly long and off-point comment on the Business Insider article. GWW sure loves anecdotal evidence, everything she writes starts with some half-remembered random Canadian news story that she uses to lay the groundwork for one of her grand theories about male suffering and female supremacy. Someone should hip her to the fact that “a case in Nova Scotia” doesn’t exactly have global implications.

@ACMESalesRep: I don’t think so. I remember a case in Nova Scotia not too long ago, where a man was accused of aggravated sexual assault for poking holes in condoms, which resulted in his (now ex) girlfriend getting pregnant. I don’t remember any prominent MRAs thinking that guy should get off the hook (and he was convicted). I DID see a whole lot of MRAs arguing that that case should set precedent for women who lie about birth control in order to obtain sexual consent from men. BLAH BLAH BLAH

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mens-rights-activists-make-false-rape-reports-at-occidental-2013-12#ixzz2nynz3abp

I’d like point out that she doesn’t discuss the Occidental College story or rape in general until the 10th paragraph of her post. FYI, she’s against online form because having reporting a rape anonymously gives “women victims a deceptive band-aid”, when they should be morally upright and report it to the police. So, she blames “women victims” for letting men get away with rape and ignores the existence of “men victims” entirely. She’s a gem.

Why aren’t we instead encouraging women to embrace a sense of sisterhood, good citizenship and personal social responsibility. Why are we constantly providing them moral permission and various options to not officially report, when victims not reporting results in more future victims?

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
6 years ago

@Titan blue
Eh. eh.
First of all, I wanna be clear here.. I think his story was false in some manner.. either he made it up, Or he embellished details to make himself look good, Or he outright lied about what happened Or he let his own world-view color his perspective of the event to make him look like the good guy. We on the same page there?

That all being said, I Still think you read too much between the lines from a paragraph long comment, and in particular,The assumption that the ‘psycho girlfriend’ simply walking into the living room with the weapon is her trying to get away from him. It could be her trying to take his property, or make a point about her potency in the situation, Assumign she really was the problematic abuser in this situation.(Though I digress, I probably give too much credit to him. the story is probably complete bs.)

However, you are right that his story falls apart after this point, and I do give you credit. I had kind of failed to note that, even within his context, she called the cops first.. which means that either he is spouting the usual ‘false accusations’ crap MRA love to pretend is an epidemic, Or she WAS trying to get out of a situation. So you got me there. And you are right of course.. Red flags are a natural, especially if his story IS a real event, since if it has ANY resemblance to reality, then more likely then not, he was just all around a horrible person making many many many worse decisions, considering how poorly his story seems to stand up under any level of scrutiny.

Also, Id like to apologize. I hadn’t meant to sound like I was saying you WERE biased, just that it felt too close for my comfort, Though the difference isn’t comforting I suppose.

Also, I guess this is what I meant when I say I have a bad habit of empathizing, even with those who don’t necessarily deserve it. Here I am, arguing from the theoretical standpoint of a probably whole cloth fabrication, even if I point out how utterly unconvinced I am of its truth.

I should probably stick to mocking MRA. lel.

@gaslighting conversation
Also, Gaslighting has got to be one of the worst things that can happen. I have never experienced it personally. Closest I have to experiencing gas-lighting is just the cultural sort of general confidence undermining, and that can be bad enough. ((“Girls are emotional and get craaazy! so don’t argue with them!” Made it hard for a long time to even state an opinion. How much worse would it be if I was the specific target?))

@Argenti
She, usually.(though I do have occasional ze moments) And if you did your usual introduction, I probably missed it, for whatever reason, since I don’t recall this. nice to meet you either way!
Also, good info on the gun stuff. honestly, I don’t know much of anything about them, and I try to stay faaar from them. So I guess thats yet another potental failing in this already hole filled story.

@Bina
It seems like I was using the word ‘delusions’ properly, but only from a certain context. Still, It borders too close to being insensitive, so I will avoid using it. (I do find it interesting however, how well the MRA movement fits that particular Word, or atleast the half they manage to be closer to.)