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Roosh V's Return of Kings blog offers sex tips inspired by prison rape

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So a fellow over at Roosh Valizadeh’s Return of Kings blog has come up with a new way for men to “dominate” the women in their lives. And it’s inspired by … prison rape.

Let’s let him explain. The RoK writer who calls himself raywolf was allegedly hanging out with an alleged old friend of his who’d allegedly just gotten out of prison after 20 years for his part in an armed robbery in which a security guard was killed.

His friend “Jake” was apparently a bit taken aback by the changes that have taken place over the last several decades. Surprised by the ubiquity of tattoos amongst the general population, and by what he saw as a lot of “masculinized” women out there, he concluded that life outside of prison these days is a lot like life inside prison.

And this brings us to the prison rape. Or, as Jake prefers to call it, eliding entirely the issue of consent, sodomy:

He explained to me that one of the ways in jail that guys dominate each other and push someone into submission is with the use of sodomy. … there was a hierarchy established in some groups in the prison, through the use of having a bitch, especially amongst lifers. It’s not just a sexual thing, or gay – it’s a question of creating loyalty and having someone to cover your back and run errands and favors for you.

So at this point a light bulb apparently went off in Jake’s head and he thought:

“The answer is to fuck your bird in the ass, then she’ll be your bitch.”

It seems to me we’re missing something here, and that something is consent. Some people like butt stuff; some people don’t. The ass isn’t a battleground, or at least it shouldn’t be. If the, “bird” in question enjoys anal sex and agrees to it, you’re not actually “making her your bitch.” You’re simply having a particular kind of sex with her — and one that actually requires a grat deal of trust and patience in order to be pleasurable for both partners. If she doesn’t enjoy it and says no, you’re RAPING HER.

But let’s hear the rest of his, er, argument:

In times gone by, women were submissive to the male in large part due to the sexual act. The emotional response to having another human being penetrate your body and deposit their genetic fluids inside it is not to be overlooked in terms of establishing a power structure. I can hear the feminists howling rape as I write this, but it’s not entirely the case.

Well, it’s true that rape — and not just anal rape — has been used to terrorize women (and some men) into submission. But sex is sex and rape is rape, and it’s raywolf and Jake, not feminists, who seem to have trouble telling the two apart.

While women are hardwired to be submissive to their man, the internet is on fire with married men complaining about how aggressive, cold, demanding and so forth their wives have become. Clearly the power structure has collapsed.

Ah, now we get to the real complaint: women aren’t doing what we want them to do.

Naturally, raywolf tries to pretend that this makes women miserable too:

Women are not happy either—they are crashing about in men’s lives and bouncing from one divorce to the next.

So what does this have to do with butt stuff?

Vaginal sex is now seen as nothing more than a pleasurable pastime for women. It no longer carries the weight it once did. …

Whereas before a woman having sex with a man meant to some degree she had given herself away to that man, that she was now under his umbrella, today it is virtually meaningless—just a quick mutual genital massage.

Well, it can be. But PIV sex can still be and often is emotionally meaningful; it doesn’t cease to be that just because it no longer means that the dude with the penis gets to boss the woman around afterwards. Raywolf is confusing “meaningful” with “good for dudes like me.”

Enter the butt:

Sodomy on the other hand is still an act that has not been entirely pushed into the realm of indifference like regular sex has. You can most certainly find girls that are anal virgins.

There is a bit of truth here: anal sex does carry connotations (for many people at least) that vaginal sex doesn’t. It’s still seen as dirty, as taboo, and possibly even as vaguely humiliating for the receiver. For some people, that makes it a no-no; for others, that’s part of its appeal.

Raywolf then tells the story of an ex-girlfriend of his who

had got curious about anal sex from watching porn. She started asking to try it. … We freely had anal sex for many months, until we both passed over it as a ‘phase’. For that year, the relationship was amazing. She was  literally my bitch. She did what she was told.

Now, there’s just one little difference between this and prison “sex.” It didn’t take place in an atmosphere of coercion and physical threat. It took place because Raywolf’s girlfriend has decided to explore her sexuality. She’s the one who asked to do it. In other words, it was sex, not rape. How this equates to him “dominating” her or making her his “bitch” I have no idea.

Raywolf offers up his own crackpot theory to explain why butt sex makes those getting penetrated submissive:

I was trying to think into why this might be and you can laugh at my theory, but the connection of the rectum to the digestive system which is in many ways the emotional brain of the human machine is clear and present.

Well, it’s true that we can have “gut feelings” about things but, I’m pretty sure the emotional brain of the human machine is still … the brain.

If you look at the intestines they look a lot like the curls of the brain.

Oh. So things that look the same ARE the same? Is spaghetti the brains of Italian food?

Being stressed or nervous can literally shut down your digestion, make you throw up or lose your appetite. It’s an emotional group of organs. The kidneys and lungs for example are a more logical organ, they just process all day long.

After this bit of crackpottery, raywolf returns us to prison:

When a man is sodomised in jail, it’s not just the stigma or the act itself. As Jake explained – another male has taken control, and possessed his emotional state, both physically and psychologically, he therefore becomes submissive, at least until he’s been nailed by 20 different guys, then the whole thing becomes as much of a moot point as the vagina does these days.

There are many reasons why a male rape victim in prison might “become submissive” towards the man who raped him. One reason? Since he’s unlikely to be able to avoid his rapist, he may wish to avoid future rapes at the hands of the same man, or at least to mitigate the violence of these rapes. Or he might count on his rapist to protect him from being raped by others.

But to raywolf, after enough raping — sorry, sodomy — he ultimately becomes the one with power:

He gets bitchy after a while, now he’s got value, something others want. But his first has a huge hold.

In conclusion, raywolf argues:

It’s a theory for you to consider and experiment with. I noticed both my previous relationships got out of hand a few months after we stopped doing anal. If you want to hang on to her, try doing her in the ass a few times a month. Make her submit to you. It might make her settle down and lose some of the entitled attitude.

It’s remarkable just how readily these guys equate sex with themselves as a kind of punishment for any woman unlucky enough to find themselves in bed with them.

For raywolf, the actual sex seems to be almost beside the point. His real aim is to knock “entitled” women down a peg or two.

Just as he has elided the issue of consent when it comes to the person being penetrated — whether girlfriend or cellmate — raywolf has also elided the issue of pleasure, when it comes to the one doing the penetrating. Believe it or not, but some dudes don’t actually enjoy fucking other people in the butt.

But no matter: Raywolf, like Roosh himself, seems far more interested in taking out his aggressions and resentments on women than he does in actually enjoying sex.

NOTE: If you are concerned about prison rape, I’d suggest you check out the organization Just Detention International, which advocates for victims of rape and other forms of sexual abuse in jails and prisons.

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Shiny Chris Hubley
7 years ago

It may have been said already, but it seems pretty likely to me that if his relationships did indeed go downhil after stopping anal, it’s more likely that his partner’s didn’t feel relaxed enough to have anal when the relationship started showing signs of going downhill.

alternatesteve90
7 years ago

@closetpuritan: Thanks for the Just Detention link; I thought I might try my hand at writing my own message: “This Holiday Season, I just want to say that you are worth something. That you deserve some love. Peace, and I hope you enjoy your holiday.”. =)

closetpuritan
7 years ago

Sounds good, alternatesteve!

Miss Random Fandom (@missrandomfan)

Oh, honey, I don’t know what kind of pill this one take, but it wasn’t red. :3. In a more serious note, as a new reader of ROK, I find myself interested in several of the articles that adress changing masculinity and healthy lifestyle and disguted by the overtraditionalism of others. It’ s a very uneven type of site. off course, is masculinism, not really MRA, which some of the writers call manginas. This being an example of overtraditionalism.

alternatesteve90
7 years ago

@Ava: “Just a note, there is a type of “second brain” consisting of neurons that exists in our guts. These neurons function to regulate our digestion and are believed to play a role in our emotional responses. Not that I agree with the rest of the theory, which is silly and completely misses the impact of consent.”

Hi Ava, this is interesting…..does anybody have any links and such for this, btw?

@closetpuritan: Thanks! I do try…..:)

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Miss Random Fandom

Oh, honey, I don’t know what kind of pill this one take, but it wasn’t red.

That’s interesting. I’ve taken many pills over the years, and yet, none of them have had any indication on whether I’m a misogynistic asshat or not.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

@LBT, I think that was a “red pill” reference, not a crack at his mental health.

closetpuritan
7 years ago

@alternatesteve:
Maybe Ava has some other links, but here are a few:

This Scientific American article is pretty good.

Thus equipped with its own reflexes and senses, the second brain can control gut behavior independently of the brain, Gershon says. We likely evolved this intricate web of nerves to perform digestion and excretion “on site,” rather than remotely from our brains through the middleman of the spinal cord…. He and other researchers explain, however, that the second brain’s complexity likely cannot be interpreted through this process alone.

“The system is way too complicated to have evolved only to make sure things move out of your colon,” says Emeran Mayer…. For example, scientists were shocked to learn that about 90 percent of the fibers in the primary visceral nerve, the vagus, carry information from the gut to the brain and not the other way around.

This article talks more about how gut microbes affect the brain as well as a little bit about how the gut and brain communicate. Apparently the vagus nerve, which is involved in the way deep breathing can have a calming effect, is also involved in brain-gut communication. And bacteria can make brain-affecting chemicals which could be absorbed during digestion.

This article mostly talks about how stress, anxiety, or depression can be caused by (or exacerbated by) or be the cause of gastrointestinal problems.

Given how closely the gut and brain interact, it becomes easier to understand why you might feel nauseated before giving a presentation, or feel intestinal pain during times of stress. That doesn’t mean, however, that functional gastrointestinal illnesses are imagined or “all in your head.” Psychology combines with physical factors to cause pain and other bowel symptoms. Psychosocial factors influence the actual physiology of the gut, as well as symptoms. In other words, stress (or depression or other psychological factors) can affect movement and contractions of the GI tract, cause inflammation, or make you more susceptible to infection.

The technical name is “enteric nervous system”; you might find more stuff if you search under that, if you want to dig deeper.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Tough call whether those other pills he might take are psych drugs or the illegal sort of drugs. Only hallucinogen I’ve encountered in pill form is MDMA, but I’ll assume not everyone will try any hallucinogen once proper plans to not be disturbed are made.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Safe assumption, Argenti: I’d never try any hallucinogen, or any other recreational drug, unless chocolate counts – alcohol, blech. 😛

Blackadder
Blackadder
7 years ago

Can we be honest here? Forced anal sex on a woman is rape, plain and simple. Any man who forces anal sex should be tried and convicted (if not castrated). period.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — caffeine!

Blackadder —

1) did you read any of the other three pages of comments? Where we all agree that this is rape?

2) castration = cruel and unusual punishment = no

alternatesteve90
7 years ago

@Blackadder: Seconding Argenti’s comment here.

kittehserf
7 years ago

LOL I don’t know how strong you take your coffee, Argenti, but mine sure isn’t of hallucinogenic or even recreational drug level! 😀 (One strong latte in the morning plus two-three cups of instant during the day – don’t think they’d count, somehow.)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Mine’s been nicknamed superbrew. French press Sumatra with a dash of espresso powder.

kittehserf
7 years ago

See, I wouldn’t know one bean from another. It’s simply “does this place do nice coffee without being ridiculously expensive?” I only drink coffee at home when I’m making it cold, with milk, and then I just use Mum’s decaf.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Argenti

2) castration = cruel and unusual punishment = no

Yeah, plus, castration has, from what I recall, doesn’t prevent someone from having sex. (There was a castrato singer who laid a LOT of men’s wives because nobody would ever suspect him.) Plus there’s always foreign objects and just… no. Castration is about as likely to stop a rapist raping as chopping off a hand will deter an arsonist.

kittehserf
7 years ago

The eunuchs guarding the Grand Seraglio back in the day were noted for their sex lives too, iirc.

I could see castration fuelling the anger a rapist feels against his victims anyway. They talk about “chemical castration” and so on, but that’s never what commenters have in mind.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Also, I heard chemical castration didn’t stop raping either, even if I WAS in favor of such gross invasion of bodily autonomy, which I’m not.

closetpuritan
7 years ago

IIRC, chemical castration has been at times offered as an option in return for a reduced sentence–i.e. the prisoner can choose whether to serve a normal sentence w/o chemical castration, or a shorter one if they agree to chemical castration. But like LBT said, it’s been found to not be very effective. (If it were effective, I would support it in those circumstances.)

Kittehserf: Jane Yolen has a short story, “The Tale of the Seventeenth Eunuch”, that incorporates that little fact.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

It makes sense. Castration, chemical or otherwise, assumes that the problem is an inability to control the urge to rape, combined with the dangerous assumption that “can’t get it up” = “can’t rape”. Added together that’s an unhealthy dose of “rape is because of uncontrollable sexual urges”. Which, uh, use your hands if you can’t control your need to orgasm.

Also, you know, human rights issues.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I always thought chemical castration was an attempt to disarm the person, the same way someone convicted for a gun crime might be banned from owning a gun. Although as Argenti points out, even if that’s the reasoning, it doesn’t work out because you don’t need a dick or a sex drive to rape someone. And as others have said, there’s the whole bodily autonomy issue, and for me that outweighs even the strongest arguments in favor of chemical castration.

Tina S
Tina S
7 years ago

Do they even reread and comprehend what they write? Men in prison…raping other men. And use this ..info…to rape women? Okay, doesn’t this equate “men have a serious problem that they must address”?

josorio300
josorio300
7 years ago

Hes only encouraging anal sex not rape. Fattroll if “Return of Kings” was a hate site im sure it would be shut down. Hell ur a misogynist urself. This website needs to be shut down…

cloudiah
7 years ago

You’re crimes against spelling and grammar have been notes, josorio300. Please don’t make us call in enforcement.

cloudiah
7 years ago

^^Your crimes^^ .. have been ^^noted^^

I’m tired.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Hes only encouraging anal sex not rape. Fattroll if “Return of Kings” was a hate site im sure it would be shut down. Hell ur a misogynist urself. This website needs to be shut down…

Oh, have we reached the irrational, trailing-off-mumbling stage already?

kittehserf
7 years ago

They’re letting the baby trolls out of kinder far too early these days. ::shakes head sadly::

Robert Ramirez
7 years ago

Is there a troll target painted on this blog today? Seems to be getting more troll traffic than usual…and they’re not even the amusing kind of troll, they’re the utterly mind-numbing boring sort.

pecunium
7 years ago

Who is supposed to “shut down hate sites”? Facebook won’t. Lj won’t. There isn’t any “international internet police” doing that.

None of which changes that you are wrong, and lying, about the OP, so why should we take you at all seriously?

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Does anyone else see “ur” and think Ur instead of “you are”?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

I just think “dimwitted buffoon”, personally.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I tend to see it as [d]ur[r].

josorio300
josorio300
7 years ago
josorio300
josorio300
7 years ago

cloudiah: “You’re crimes against spelling and grammar have been notes, josorio300. Please don’t make us call in enforcement.”

Translation: “WAHH WAHH!!!! Im calling the police because im butthurt by josorio300s comments and spelling!”

But seriously you losers almost made me laugh.
Almost……

cloudiah
7 years ago

Ally S
7 years ago

[Content note: sexual violence]

@josorio300

So you’re another one of those douchebags who think that only forced PIV penetration is rape? And here you are calling David a misogynist…

Also, posting fatphobic, transmisogynistic portrayals of David really reduces your credibility and respectability to almost nothing.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

@josorio, that might be more insulting if anyone here found the idea of men in dresses (and/or MAAB people IDing as women) inherently taboo or funny. Personally, I think David looks adorable in that picture, although I’m not sure who Beast is supposed to be…

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

From my perspective, since he’s on the other side of the country, David is essentially pure intellect/personality, since that’s how I (and most of us) interact with him. Why am I supposed to care what he looks like?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Does anyone else see “ur” and think Ur instead of “you are”?

Once upon a time on LiveJournal, there was a user icon that was a picture of a Babylonian frieze depicting a battle, with the caption “Im in Ur, killin Ur doodz”. History nerds are some of my favorite nerds.

Did anyone notice how josorio ignored any substantive criticisms of his comment to whine about the one mocking his spelling? It’s almost like that was the only one he had any chance of countering.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Is it the running of the trolls already? Today’s been full of them. And if this is the cream of the crop, oy.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Once upon a time on LiveJournal, there was a user icon that was a picture of a Babylonian frieze depicting a battle, with the caption “Im in Ur, killin Ur doodz”. History nerds are some of my favorite nerds.

I <3 this.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I think we should just post drag videos until Mr Gender Police goes away.

Here’s a man in drag and a trans woman having a very NSFW dance-off:

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Ach, I mean to say, the trans woman is also in drag. I think. I mean, RuPaul has said you don’t need to be a man to be a drag queen (at least not for the purposes of her show), and if you take the view that drag is any form of gender play then you can still do drag within your own gender anyway.

Anyway, the point is, fuck off josorio.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

American women are low class. All covered in tattoos, smoking, wearing pajamas half the time, dye jobs with roots showing for months, and a queen bee complex.

Except you do for purposes of the show, because there’s never been a bio queen or a trans woman who came out before the show started.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

That was supposed to quoting the Rupaul quote in Emily’s post. The ctrl C goblin is cahoots with the blockquote monster.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

True. This was Word of God during the most recent season (IIRC someone came out as she was being eliminated? You might remember it better than I do), so it’s just theoretical until she intentionally picks a woman to compete on the show.

Jane J
Jane J
7 years ago

Who cares what some second rate PUA like Roosh whatshisface thinks? The men that are drawn to blogs like ROK are the type of misogynistic low life oxygen thieves that all smart women would do well to avoid, the poor darlings are full of self-pity and rage about their sexual inadequacy and masculinity (or lack of). They go on and on about how horrible Western women are and how they’re venturing east for hotter and more “traditional” (read: Desperate for a Green Card) women, like as if anyone is supposed to care? Good riddance. They won’t exactly be missed in the dating market.

Headless Unicorn Guy
Headless Unicorn Guy
6 years ago

Four words: ANIMAL. FORCED. DOMINANCE. DISPLAY.

In prison parlance, “Making a Woman out of Him”. (I’ll leave you to figure out the accompanying definition of “woman”.)

Several years ago, Conservative Jewish talk-show host Dennis Prager got into a lot of trouble on the Internet for an essay of his, “Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality”. His thesis was not homosexuality per se, but sexual definitions before and after Torah.

Before Torah, sex was not between men and women so much as between Penetrator (Dom on top) and Penetrated (Sub on bottom) in an Animal Forced Dominance Display. Sex or gender didn’t matter, only who was on top doing the penetrating and who was on the bottom getting penetrated. (The analogy to prison rape or rape culture should be obvious.)

Prager continued with Torah’s homosexuality taboo being part of redefinition of sex to a more equal relationship between husband and wife. (Though people being people, this was honored as much in the breach as in the observance. Looking for a loophole for “What *I* Wanna” is nothing new.)

This also touches on a meme I’ve had since I first read Thomas Cahill’s The Gifts of the Jews from a perspective of Furry Fandom — the idea of Transcending the Animal. PUAs, MRAs, Manosphere types — they don’t want to Transcend the Animal, they just want to be the Herd Boss/Harem Boss/Alpha Male. ANIMAL. In a way, they want to cease to be human.