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Roosh V's Return of Kings blog offers sex tips inspired by prison rape

prison-650

So a fellow over at Roosh Valizadeh’s Return of Kings blog has come up with a new way for men to “dominate” the women in their lives. And it’s inspired by … prison rape.

Let’s let him explain. The RoK writer who calls himself raywolf was allegedly hanging out with an alleged old friend of his who’d allegedly just gotten out of prison after 20 years for his part in an armed robbery in which a security guard was killed.

His friend “Jake” was apparently a bit taken aback by the changes that have taken place over the last several decades. Surprised by the ubiquity of tattoos amongst the general population, and by what he saw as a lot of “masculinized” women out there, he concluded that life outside of prison these days is a lot like life inside prison.

And this brings us to the prison rape. Or, as Jake prefers to call it, eliding entirely the issue of consent, sodomy:

He explained to me that one of the ways in jail that guys dominate each other and push someone into submission is with the use of sodomy. … there was a hierarchy established in some groups in the prison, through the use of having a bitch, especially amongst lifers. It’s not just a sexual thing, or gay – it’s a question of creating loyalty and having someone to cover your back and run errands and favors for you.

So at this point a light bulb apparently went off in Jake’s head and he thought:

“The answer is to fuck your bird in the ass, then she’ll be your bitch.”

It seems to me we’re missing something here, and that something is consent. Some people like butt stuff; some people don’t. The ass isn’t a battleground, or at least it shouldn’t be. If the, “bird” in question enjoys anal sex and agrees to it, you’re not actually “making her your bitch.” You’re simply having a particular kind of sex with her — and one that actually requires a grat deal of trust and patience in order to be pleasurable for both partners. If she doesn’t enjoy it and says no, you’re RAPING HER.

But let’s hear the rest of his, er, argument:

In times gone by, women were submissive to the male in large part due to the sexual act. The emotional response to having another human being penetrate your body and deposit their genetic fluids inside it is not to be overlooked in terms of establishing a power structure. I can hear the feminists howling rape as I write this, but it’s not entirely the case.

Well, it’s true that rape — and not just anal rape — has been used to terrorize women (and some men) into submission. But sex is sex and rape is rape, and it’s raywolf and Jake, not feminists, who seem to have trouble telling the two apart.

While women are hardwired to be submissive to their man, the internet is on fire with married men complaining about how aggressive, cold, demanding and so forth their wives have become. Clearly the power structure has collapsed.

Ah, now we get to the real complaint: women aren’t doing what we want them to do.

Naturally, raywolf tries to pretend that this makes women miserable too:

Women are not happy either—they are crashing about in men’s lives and bouncing from one divorce to the next.

So what does this have to do with butt stuff?

Vaginal sex is now seen as nothing more than a pleasurable pastime for women. It no longer carries the weight it once did. …

Whereas before a woman having sex with a man meant to some degree she had given herself away to that man, that she was now under his umbrella, today it is virtually meaningless—just a quick mutual genital massage.

Well, it can be. But PIV sex can still be and often is emotionally meaningful; it doesn’t cease to be that just because it no longer means that the dude with the penis gets to boss the woman around afterwards. Raywolf is confusing “meaningful” with “good for dudes like me.”

Enter the butt:

Sodomy on the other hand is still an act that has not been entirely pushed into the realm of indifference like regular sex has. You can most certainly find girls that are anal virgins.

There is a bit of truth here: anal sex does carry connotations (for many people at least) that vaginal sex doesn’t. It’s still seen as dirty, as taboo, and possibly even as vaguely humiliating for the receiver. For some people, that makes it a no-no; for others, that’s part of its appeal.

Raywolf then tells the story of an ex-girlfriend of his who

had got curious about anal sex from watching porn. She started asking to try it. … We freely had anal sex for many months, until we both passed over it as a ‘phase’. For that year, the relationship was amazing. She was  literally my bitch. She did what she was told.

Now, there’s just one little difference between this and prison “sex.” It didn’t take place in an atmosphere of coercion and physical threat. It took place because Raywolf’s girlfriend has decided to explore her sexuality. She’s the one who asked to do it. In other words, it was sex, not rape. How this equates to him “dominating” her or making her his “bitch” I have no idea.

Raywolf offers up his own crackpot theory to explain why butt sex makes those getting penetrated submissive:

I was trying to think into why this might be and you can laugh at my theory, but the connection of the rectum to the digestive system which is in many ways the emotional brain of the human machine is clear and present.

Well, it’s true that we can have “gut feelings” about things but, I’m pretty sure the emotional brain of the human machine is still … the brain.

If you look at the intestines they look a lot like the curls of the brain.

Oh. So things that look the same ARE the same? Is spaghetti the brains of Italian food?

Being stressed or nervous can literally shut down your digestion, make you throw up or lose your appetite. It’s an emotional group of organs. The kidneys and lungs for example are a more logical organ, they just process all day long.

After this bit of crackpottery, raywolf returns us to prison:

When a man is sodomised in jail, it’s not just the stigma or the act itself. As Jake explained – another male has taken control, and possessed his emotional state, both physically and psychologically, he therefore becomes submissive, at least until he’s been nailed by 20 different guys, then the whole thing becomes as much of a moot point as the vagina does these days.

There are many reasons why a male rape victim in prison might “become submissive” towards the man who raped him. One reason? Since he’s unlikely to be able to avoid his rapist, he may wish to avoid future rapes at the hands of the same man, or at least to mitigate the violence of these rapes. Or he might count on his rapist to protect him from being raped by others.

But to raywolf, after enough raping — sorry, sodomy — he ultimately becomes the one with power:

He gets bitchy after a while, now he’s got value, something others want. But his first has a huge hold.

In conclusion, raywolf argues:

It’s a theory for you to consider and experiment with. I noticed both my previous relationships got out of hand a few months after we stopped doing anal. If you want to hang on to her, try doing her in the ass a few times a month. Make her submit to you. It might make her settle down and lose some of the entitled attitude.

It’s remarkable just how readily these guys equate sex with themselves as a kind of punishment for any woman unlucky enough to find themselves in bed with them.

For raywolf, the actual sex seems to be almost beside the point. His real aim is to knock “entitled” women down a peg or two.

Just as he has elided the issue of consent when it comes to the person being penetrated — whether girlfriend or cellmate — raywolf has also elided the issue of pleasure, when it comes to the one doing the penetrating. Believe it or not, but some dudes don’t actually enjoy fucking other people in the butt.

But no matter: Raywolf, like Roosh himself, seems far more interested in taking out his aggressions and resentments on women than he does in actually enjoying sex.

NOTE: If you are concerned about prison rape, I’d suggest you check out the organization Just Detention International, which advocates for victims of rape and other forms of sexual abuse in jails and prisons.

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this one is between perspectives
this one is between perspectives
7 years ago

I think what confuses me the most about these people is that they think women by virtue of their ‘womenness’ are the ‘crazy'(I use that word in the dismissive ableist way they mean it)ones and that they, the superior manz are the perfect flawless hyper-rational ones. But then they say shit like this……………….i mean this should be an example in the dictionary under irrational.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

It reads like just another version of the magic penis rape cure for uppity women to me. Been hearing and reading that particular zombie lie all my life, and I am seriously old now.

Fade
7 years ago

@brittersweet

that porcupine video was so adorable it was the perfect brain bleach.

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
7 years ago

To me it’s very specifically “this man’s misogyny + hyped-up claims about his sexual prowess + remarkable ignorance about sex, women and anatomy in general = serious question about whether he’s just making shit up from his porn-fed fantasies.” It’s not the inexperience that’s the problem, it’s a question of just how much of their tales are lies.

Yeah, that’s the way I look at it too. Nothing wrong with not having sex, it’s the denial and dishonesty that’s worthy of ridicule.

About the only good thing I can say about “incels” is that they’re honest about their lack of sex, and they have *just* enough self-awareness to realize that they’ve got a problem. Of course they see the lack of sex as being the problem, not a symptom of the much larger problem, but it’s still the closest thing to intellectual honesty you’re ever going to get from the manosphere.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

The problem is that the more they intersect with the manosphere the more they come to believe that women being too uppity is the reason they’re not getting any sex, and then you end up with people like GGG. I’d have a lot more patience with the whole incel thing if there was less attempt to blame women and more acceptance of the fact that if other men are getting laid and forming relationships and you’re not, logic would indicate that the cause of the problem must lie with you in one way or another.

kittehserf
7 years ago

About the only good thing I can say about “incels” is that they’re honest about their lack of sex, and they have *just* enough self-awareness to realize that they’ve got a problem. Of course they see the lack of sex as being the problem, not a symptom of the much larger problem, but it’s still the closest thing to intellectual honesty you’re ever going to get from the manosphere.

And doesn’t it say it all that a bunch of “my problem is women won’t put out for me” idiots are the most intellectually honest of the lot!

It’s not just the denial and dishonesty with the manosphere – it’s that they advocate rape, among other forms of abuse. Not that I’m saying anything anyone here doesn’t know already.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Ninjaed by Cassandra!

CassandraSays
7 years ago

I can’t remember the name but we had one commenter delurk recently who was actively trying to distance hirself from the whole incel thing but was still kind of doing the whole “well you can’t say that the fact that incels aren’t able to make sex happen is their fault, that’s ableist”, and the thing is, where else can the cause of the problem possibly lie? If you frame things as “well we can’t say it’s something about the people who’re incel that’s creating this situation” then you’re left with the idea that the lack of sex is something that’s being done to those people, and society should somehow make that stop happening. But society can’t make it’s members have sex with incel person X if they don’t want to without some sort of coercion, so…

The whole frame seems to be set up to shift responsibility onto women, and all the solutions proposed are rapey or coercive, other than “incels need to figure out what’s preventing them from forming relationships and fix whatever is causing that problem”, which is rejected as being unfair and prejudiced.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I was just thinking of that commenter; zie was taitaisanchez, on the Glossary thread.

This is the thing with the incels, isn’t it? It seems to be almost entirely hetero men demanding sex from women, whether we like it or not. They’ve just made a silly new name for an old, old whine.

Come to think of it, has anyone ever heard of a woman claiming to be incel and whining that men should put out for her? But then, silly me, we all know women can get sex like that *snaps fingers*, because the manly men’s superior intestines brains told us so.

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
7 years ago

@ Kitteh,
I hadn’t thought of something you said before, but honestly, It really rings true.

to them, somehow, Its all a zero-sum game. everything. the Alpha male thing, the fight against woman getting any kind of rights.. All of it is with this perception that somehow, they are LOSING whenever someone else is winning. To the point that they seem to be almost unable to accept that there is a such thing as.. well, mutual benefit. Ive heard it said before, but it is honestly true.. these guys have some of the bleakest world views I have seen.

@the Incel thing
Yeah. Framing the issue as ‘involuntary’ Implies it is being forced somehow. I suppose one COULD argue that it could be out of the Incel’s hands, but that is a very tricky argument to make, since It leans towards blaming the woman who are ‘the power’ behind the incel-ness, or society in general.. both of which sound a bit.. Far fetched?

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I want to pet that porcupine, maybe it isn’t as inadvisable as it sounds? I mean, I’ve got a territorial carnivore trained to eat snails off my fingers…

Also, hi Fade!

Emilygoddess
Emilygoddess
7 years ago

The emotional response to having another human being penetrate your body and deposit their genetic fluids inside it is not to be overlooked in terms of establishing a power structure

But when Andrea Dworkin says this, it’s she’s calling all men rapists.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

That may well be the least erotic sentence in the history of the English language.

baileyrenee
7 years ago

Stuff like this makes me severely depressed. Like actually. Knowing that ideas like this exist in people’s heads is too much to think about. It also makes me not judge so-called “sex negative” type feminists too harshly. The fact that views like this are still around make me think pretty negatively about sex too.

BRB barfing.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

These guys literally want to turn relationships into a sexual prison? Assclowns and shitfuckers, the lot of them.

Also, that bit about lungs and kidneys being “logical and unemotional” is hogwash. Scared people hyperventilate (lungs) and pee themselves (kidneys, bladder). Do they seriously think any part of the human body is unaffected by fear? They should take a tour of a refugee camp sometime.

As for what feminists are doing about prison rape (and prisoner rights in general): Here in Canada, we have the John Howard Society and its female counterpart, the Elizabeth Fry Society. They do what Roosh, Paul Elam and the rest of these sorry fuckasses won’t. If you wonder, just google the names sometime.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I suppose one COULD argue that it could be out of the Incel’s hands

::snicker::

/is twelve

That may well be the least erotic sentence in the history of the English language.

Erotic would be another concept these twerps wouldn’t understand.

Bina – I went O_O when you mentioned the John Howard society, because here the name brings to mind the previous Liberal Prime Minister, who’s a right little shit who wouldn’t do anything to help anyone.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Kittehs, no fear…this isn’t THAT John Howard. This one is from longer ago. The shitty ex-PM of Oz is an unfortunate namesake, though.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

PS: Here are the relevant URLs, for anyone caring to read up a bit on prisoner-rights/prisoners’ aid societies in Canada:

The John Howard Society

The Elizabeth Fry Society

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

These guys need a good A&P class. For real. First the guy talking about women “shitting out babies,” then SocialKenny yesterday going on about melanin, and then, this guy. Oy vey, this guy.

There are no brains in the intestinal tract. The brain is located in the skull.
The small intestines look nothing like the brain.
Organs are neither logical or illogical. Organs are involuntary muscles, in that they work without you having to think about them. This includes the intestines. Just about every organ systems can be affected by the stress hormones released during the “fight or flight” response.

I have to focus on the A&P part of this, because the larger implications of “anally rape a woman to make her submissive” makes me want to vomit.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

MRA theory of where babies come from.

Anal sex is the best way to get a woman pregnant (doesn’t matter whether or not she wants to be, it’s the man’s decision). Anyway, after anal sex the seed travels through the intestine to the baby place, where it grows big and strong just like it’s daddy. The woman’s body isn’t really involved in this process, she’s pretty much just a jar to grow babies in. If you want to communicate with the baby while it’s in utero, feed the woman something with lots of fiber, because the emotions live in the bowels. This will let the baby know that daddy is watching.

When the baby is ripe and ready to leave the jar the woman shits it out through her vagina, because that’s where women poop from.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Speaking of namesakes, there was a wonderful moment in the series The Games, which was a satire about the Sydney Olympics in 2000. Gina Riley, Brian Dawe and John Clarke (who’re very sharp political and social satirists – Gina Riley later played Kim in Kath and Kim) played the supremos who were *cough* organising *cough* the Games.

Now, PM Howard always refused to apologise to the Aboriginal people for the wrongs done to them, and this led to a lovely moment in this series. John Howard apologised, all right – but it wasn’t that John Howard.

http://youtu.be/Dh0MNIFezME

kittehserf
7 years ago

Anal sex is the best way to get a woman pregnant (doesn’t matter whether or not she wants to be, it’s the man’s decision).

Of course, if she does get pregnant, that proves it wasn’t rape, because the large intestine has ways of shutting that whole thing down.

HeatherN
7 years ago

Regarding that “incel” framing any discussion of how he’s probably at fault for his situation, as ableist: I think that’s just so indicative of how incels and PUAs (and all manosphere types, really) view sex as something that happens to them and/or something that they do…rather than as an activity in which they interact WITH another human being. They view sex as somehow existing on it’s own…as being somehow divorced from the people actually engaging in it.

Like, imagine if we conceptualised conversation in the same way. How rubbish would that be!

cloudiah
7 years ago

Looooong day, and I probably shouldn’t have read this post when I got home, but the laughter prompted by this made reading about this WTFery worth it:

Of course, if she does get pregnant, that proves it wasn’t rape, because the large intestine has ways of shutting that whole thing down.

Oh manboobzers, you keep restoring my faith in humanity!

cloudiah
7 years ago

Also, Teddy the porcupine somehow also restores my faith in humanity. Which is weird, since he’s a porcupine.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

I think naming a porcupine “Teddy” makes them cruel, cruel, bastards. I love it.

HeatherN
7 years ago

@sparky: Aw, and I was so prepared to take the whole thing one step further and start dividing organs into masculine (logical) and feminine (illogical). Like, the kidney and lungs would be masculine organs…and the entire digestive system would be feminine. Let’s see…muscular system would be masculine (obviously)…and the circulatory system would be feminine because it includes the heart and the heart is so obviously feminine because we associate hearts with love and women are more emotional. – I have absolutely no idea where to place the lymphatic system….masculine? Feminine? I must do a STUDY with SCIENCE and publish it on the evo psych journal’s website!

I’m kidding, of course. Just want to make that clear.

Seranvali
Seranvali
7 years ago

acrannymint said:

“These guys are living proof of what happens when cuts are made to mental health spending. This is so appalling to me.”

You’re probably a perfectly nice and decent person, who would never deliberately hurt anyone’s feelings, but would you please re-think the above.

There are lots of regulars here who suffer from mental illnesses who have been poorly treated by the (as you quite rightly pointed out) inadequate mental health system but are fine and reasonable people. These guys, the ones described in the OP? They don’t behave as they do because they’re mentally ill, they do it because they’re misogynistic, arrogant, callous ratbags. Please, let’s not let them off the hook by saying that they’re mentally ill because that pathologises them and frees them from responsibility for their actions.

Thankyou.

I’m just going to calm down with a glass of fresh mango juice after my little rant (it’s so hot here just now).

cloudiah
7 years ago

Seranvali, well said.

And more (cooling) brain bleach:

Neurite
Neurite
7 years ago

I’m not even fond of the notion that “if other men are getting laid and you aren’t, the fault must lie with you.”

Sure, with many of the rage-fueled, misogynistic folks found on many “incel” boards (PUAhate, anyone?), this is likely the main reason – or, if it ever was anything else, it sure is now.

But there are plenty of conceivable reasons why someone who would really love to have sex cannot get it without it being their fault. While the spectrum of human attraction is a lot wider than our society would have us believe, and while not everyone has sex based simply on physical attraction, it is still much easier for some people to meet others who are interested in having sex with them than for others. Sure, it may be true that for almost everyone, there is someone out there who finds them attractive. But “somewhere out there” doesn’t always mean “anywhere where I can actually meet them”. Not all of us live in large population centers; not all of us can travel. Sure, for some of us sex workers can be an option; for others, it is not (whether due to personal beliefs, criminalization, living in a remote area, etc.).

I’d rather not shame people who are, for whatever reason, not getting laid even though they’d really love to (and note, despite what manosphere fucknuts would have you believe, this happens just as much to women as to men), just because some self-declared “incels” are being raging assholes in public.

I would rather think of it as “if other men are getting laid and you aren’t, the fault doesn’t necessarily lie with you, but it sure as hell doesn’t lie with anyone else either, and certainly not with ‘all women’.” Sometimes, bad things happen and they are not anyone’s fault. Sometimes these things are devastating, and they are still not anyone’s fault.

melody
7 years ago

Involuntary celibates? That is what you all are talking about right. I just like to make sure I am on the same page.

Amelia the Lurker
Amelia the Lurker
7 years ago

The “gut feeling” musings aren’t quite as crackpot as you’d think; there is such a thing as the enteric nervous system. However, trying to connect that to anal sex is completely absurd.

dvarghundspossen
7 years ago

What Neurite said. Someone can totally be without sex because zie’s UNLUCKY when it comes to finding people whose cup of tea zie is. Doesn’t have to be anyone’s FAULT.

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

You can in fact pet a porcupine.

Seranvali
Seranvali
7 years ago

Neurite:

Of course not, there are any number of people who for various reasons can’t find a partner through no fault of their own. The problem is when they feel that another person owes it to them and that they are entitled to it.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
7 years ago

Argenti – Belated congratulations for new batch of cories. I honestly was starting to wonder how you’ll manage a constantly increasing population of cories…Pet stores to the rescue?

Chaos Engineer
Chaos Engineer
7 years ago

This is just silly. The links between physiology and emotional state were worked out thousands of years ago by Hippocrates. (link) You can’t focus on individual organs; you need to work on the body as a whole.

Submission is associated with the Phlegmatic personality type, which can be induced by increasing phlegm production. This is why flowers are a common romantic gift – but that’s just folk medicine; a lot of people aren’t allergic to flowers. You’ll have better results if you give your partner a large bouquet of ragweed.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

You’ll have better results if you give your partner a large bouquet of ragweed.

Mops coffee out of keyboard.

Neurite
Neurite
7 years ago

Seranvali: Completely agreed. I was just responding to an earlier comment that stated “if other men are getting laid and forming relationships and you’re not, logic would indicate that the cause of the problem must lie with you in one way or another.” When sometimes the fault just doesn’t lie with anyone.

And I’m quite sure that comment wasn’t even meant in a “shame anyone who cannot get laid” way, and was instead directed at people who, like you said, feel entitled to others’ bodies. I just felt like it could still read, even if unintended, as kinda cruel towards people who, again like you said, can’t find a partner through no fault of their own. So I added my own rambles.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Raywolf and Anne McCaffrey should co-author a paper or something (CW: rape, homophobia).

@bbeaty,

This “friend” was in prison for 20 years and, what, never had access to TV or magazines or newspapers or the internet or visitors or other inmates’ visitors? This is some kind of time capsule prison where they lock you away from all the rest of humanity? Not to mention 20 years ago it was the mid 1990s — women were getting tattoos and piercings and and acting all manly and uppity long before that.

Yeah, that looked like a lot of shitthatneverhappened.txt, or else his friend was engaging in some bonding-at-the-expense-of-women shit (“what’s up with women these days, man?”) rather than trying to make an actual argument.

@OP

[Anal sex is] still seen as dirty, as taboo, and possibly even as vaguely humiliating for the receiver. For some people, that makes it a no-no; for others, that’s part of its appeal.

I’ve always assumed that was the reason for its popularity in porn, and the way the mainstream talks about it as something women “do” or “let him do” rather than as something they like.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Seranvali: Completely agreed. I was just responding to an earlier comment that stated “if other men are getting laid and forming relationships and you’re not, logic would indicate that the cause of the problem must lie with you in one way or another.” When sometimes the fault just doesn’t lie with anyone.

Neurite if someone picks out that one statement and complains, or feels bad about it, all one can say is read the thread. It’s only about men who feel entitled to women’s bodies, whether incels or PUAs.

kittehserf
7 years ago

emilygoddess – holy shit, I knew McCaffrey wrote some horrible stuff (I used to be a fan of the earlier books) but I didn’t know she was a fucking idiot.

… Where have my eyes gone now?

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Do we need to start re-explaining the context of comments as we make them in the middle of threads that provide said context? I can do that if people would prefer, but it seems a bit redundant.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

@ kittehs

Did you ever read that McCaffrey anthology that featured some of the softcore porn she wrote when she was young and broke? There’s a story about a rapey alien race where the human heroine is raped and decides she likes it in the middle that’s particularly icky.

Ava
Ava
7 years ago

Just a note, there is a type of “second brain” consisting of neurons that exists in our guts. These neurons function to regulate our digestion and are believed to play a role in our emotional responses. Not that I agree with the rest of the theory, which is silly and completely misses the impact of consent.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Would that be Get Off the Unicorn? Yeah, I read that, with that horrible Catteni story. She even wrote a whole damn series taken from that story later.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

That’s the one. I did not know she made an entire series of it. Insert dramatic “WHY GOD WHY?” moment here.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Too right.

She really had the skeeviest notions about sex. It’s so seldom in the whole Pern books that people get to make a choice. Even in Dragondrums, she manages to do it to Menolly and Sebell, when his fire lizard queen rises while they’re at sea.

But that “anal turns men gay” was MRA-level stupid.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Now that I think about it, why does she frame sex that way? What terrible, awful thing does she think would happen if people had sex just because they wanted to?

katz
7 years ago

Oh boy. Had not read that McCaffrey statement before. Can’t say I’m surprised.