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Roosh V's Return of Kings blog offers sex tips inspired by prison rape

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So a fellow over at Roosh Valizadeh’s Return of Kings blog has come up with a new way for men to “dominate” the women in their lives. And it’s inspired by … prison rape.

Let’s let him explain. The RoK writer who calls himself raywolf was allegedly hanging out with an alleged old friend of his who’d allegedly just gotten out of prison after 20 years for his part in an armed robbery in which a security guard was killed.

His friend “Jake” was apparently a bit taken aback by the changes that have taken place over the last several decades. Surprised by the ubiquity of tattoos amongst the general population, and by what he saw as a lot of “masculinized” women out there, he concluded that life outside of prison these days is a lot like life inside prison.

And this brings us to the prison rape. Or, as Jake prefers to call it, eliding entirely the issue of consent, sodomy:

He explained to me that one of the ways in jail that guys dominate each other and push someone into submission is with the use of sodomy. … there was a hierarchy established in some groups in the prison, through the use of having a bitch, especially amongst lifers. It’s not just a sexual thing, or gay – it’s a question of creating loyalty and having someone to cover your back and run errands and favors for you.

So at this point a light bulb apparently went off in Jake’s head and he thought:

“The answer is to fuck your bird in the ass, then she’ll be your bitch.”

It seems to me we’re missing something here, and that something is consent. Some people like butt stuff; some people don’t. The ass isn’t a battleground, or at least it shouldn’t be. If the, “bird” in question enjoys anal sex and agrees to it, you’re not actually “making her your bitch.” You’re simply having a particular kind of sex with her — and one that actually requires a grat deal of trust and patience in order to be pleasurable for both partners. If she doesn’t enjoy it and says no, you’re RAPING HER.

But let’s hear the rest of his, er, argument:

In times gone by, women were submissive to the male in large part due to the sexual act. The emotional response to having another human being penetrate your body and deposit their genetic fluids inside it is not to be overlooked in terms of establishing a power structure. I can hear the feminists howling rape as I write this, but it’s not entirely the case.

Well, it’s true that rape — and not just anal rape — has been used to terrorize women (and some men) into submission. But sex is sex and rape is rape, and it’s raywolf and Jake, not feminists, who seem to have trouble telling the two apart.

While women are hardwired to be submissive to their man, the internet is on fire with married men complaining about how aggressive, cold, demanding and so forth their wives have become. Clearly the power structure has collapsed.

Ah, now we get to the real complaint: women aren’t doing what we want them to do.

Naturally, raywolf tries to pretend that this makes women miserable too:

Women are not happy either—they are crashing about in men’s lives and bouncing from one divorce to the next.

So what does this have to do with butt stuff?

Vaginal sex is now seen as nothing more than a pleasurable pastime for women. It no longer carries the weight it once did. …

Whereas before a woman having sex with a man meant to some degree she had given herself away to that man, that she was now under his umbrella, today it is virtually meaningless—just a quick mutual genital massage.

Well, it can be. But PIV sex can still be and often is emotionally meaningful; it doesn’t cease to be that just because it no longer means that the dude with the penis gets to boss the woman around afterwards. Raywolf is confusing “meaningful” with “good for dudes like me.”

Enter the butt:

Sodomy on the other hand is still an act that has not been entirely pushed into the realm of indifference like regular sex has. You can most certainly find girls that are anal virgins.

There is a bit of truth here: anal sex does carry connotations (for many people at least) that vaginal sex doesn’t. It’s still seen as dirty, as taboo, and possibly even as vaguely humiliating for the receiver. For some people, that makes it a no-no; for others, that’s part of its appeal.

Raywolf then tells the story of an ex-girlfriend of his who

had got curious about anal sex from watching porn. She started asking to try it. … We freely had anal sex for many months, until we both passed over it as a ‘phase’. For that year, the relationship was amazing. She was  literally my bitch. She did what she was told.

Now, there’s just one little difference between this and prison “sex.” It didn’t take place in an atmosphere of coercion and physical threat. It took place because Raywolf’s girlfriend has decided to explore her sexuality. She’s the one who asked to do it. In other words, it was sex, not rape. How this equates to him “dominating” her or making her his “bitch” I have no idea.

Raywolf offers up his own crackpot theory to explain why butt sex makes those getting penetrated submissive:

I was trying to think into why this might be and you can laugh at my theory, but the connection of the rectum to the digestive system which is in many ways the emotional brain of the human machine is clear and present.

Well, it’s true that we can have “gut feelings” about things but, I’m pretty sure the emotional brain of the human machine is still … the brain.

If you look at the intestines they look a lot like the curls of the brain.

Oh. So things that look the same ARE the same? Is spaghetti the brains of Italian food?

Being stressed or nervous can literally shut down your digestion, make you throw up or lose your appetite. It’s an emotional group of organs. The kidneys and lungs for example are a more logical organ, they just process all day long.

After this bit of crackpottery, raywolf returns us to prison:

When a man is sodomised in jail, it’s not just the stigma or the act itself. As Jake explained – another male has taken control, and possessed his emotional state, both physically and psychologically, he therefore becomes submissive, at least until he’s been nailed by 20 different guys, then the whole thing becomes as much of a moot point as the vagina does these days.

There are many reasons why a male rape victim in prison might “become submissive” towards the man who raped him. One reason? Since he’s unlikely to be able to avoid his rapist, he may wish to avoid future rapes at the hands of the same man, or at least to mitigate the violence of these rapes. Or he might count on his rapist to protect him from being raped by others.

But to raywolf, after enough raping — sorry, sodomy — he ultimately becomes the one with power:

He gets bitchy after a while, now he’s got value, something others want. But his first has a huge hold.

In conclusion, raywolf argues:

It’s a theory for you to consider and experiment with. I noticed both my previous relationships got out of hand a few months after we stopped doing anal. If you want to hang on to her, try doing her in the ass a few times a month. Make her submit to you. It might make her settle down and lose some of the entitled attitude.

It’s remarkable just how readily these guys equate sex with themselves as a kind of punishment for any woman unlucky enough to find themselves in bed with them.

For raywolf, the actual sex seems to be almost beside the point. His real aim is to knock “entitled” women down a peg or two.

Just as he has elided the issue of consent when it comes to the person being penetrated — whether girlfriend or cellmate — raywolf has also elided the issue of pleasure, when it comes to the one doing the penetrating. Believe it or not, but some dudes don’t actually enjoy fucking other people in the butt.

But no matter: Raywolf, like Roosh himself, seems far more interested in taking out his aggressions and resentments on women than he does in actually enjoying sex.

NOTE: If you are concerned about prison rape, I’d suggest you check out the organization Just Detention International, which advocates for victims of rape and other forms of sexual abuse in jails and prisons.

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pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
7 years ago

This was one of the most disgusting things I have ever encountered in my life….

Are these people for real? Why do they hate sex and women so much? Can’t they… you know, have sex because sex is good? Why does it have to be a strange power thing?

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

So what happens when people do anal play to themself? Do they become submissive to themselves somehow?

Do they worship they’re buttplug? Oh, wait…

Uhh this is not work safe http://divine-interventions.com/religioustoys.php#babyjesus

feintone
7 years ago

@ pineapple I do wonder if its some kind of medical thing where they no longer gain any pleasure from ejaculating. will look up and see if that sort of thing exists.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
7 years ago

The Great Manosphere Debate 2013:

Farrell: Women have asses. This is why men are forced to submit to matriarchal oppression.

Roosh: Yes, sure, women have asses. But men can put things in said asses, thereby making women submit to us. Science!

Farrell: Of course we can put things in asses. No one here is denying that. But women still retain their asses, and often cook while wearing them. I submit that until we can physically remove female asses and keep them under lock and key, no man will be safe!

Roosh: “I submit”? Hey, guys, he just said he submits! Warren’s a girl! Warren’s a gi-irl!

Farrell: (shaking fist) Shut up, or your next book will be “Bang Nose”!

Moderator Paul Elam: What a great debate! So many good points! In the end though, there can only be one winner, and that winner is… me! Good night, everyone!

kittehserf
7 years ago

I wonder if they’re so scared of women, and hate us so much, that the physical intimacy of sex puts them off? It all seems to be about punishing us for existing and not being their slaves, or for being physically attractive to them, or whatever.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Note on opium’s link — I wouldn’t put the shiva up my ass, the base isn’t bigger than the shaft, meaning you risk getting it all in there and ending up an embarrassing ER story (probably not, but why risk it?)

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
7 years ago

@feintone

My theory goes like this: 1. Since they’ve never had sex with another person in their lives, the only sexual activity they’ve ever experienced has been masturbation, and

2. Masturbation can get boring after a while, and

3. Since they are obviously incapable of forming emotional attachments with other people, they imagine that sex with a living partner would be exactly the same as masturbation, which they’re bored with, so

4. Therefore, sex is no fun, and serves no purpose other than a weird power game.

It logical sense to me, but then I haven’t eaten yet, so my intestines may not be properly stimulated.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

If you hate someone it’s inevitable that sex with them would turn into some sort of power struggle, isn’t it? Plus I think they can’t afford to enjoy themselves too much because pleasure might lead to intimacy and intimacy with a woman would mean giving up their (imaginary) power over her.

They’re terrified of vulnerability, and people who can’t allow themselves to be vulnerable can’t enjoy sex.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III – “Moderator Paul Elam: What a great debate! So many good points! In the end though, there can only be one winner, and that winner is… me! Good night, everyone!”

I laughed. Damn you, you owe me some soup.

pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
7 years ago

kittehserf: I think about that as well. Because, quite frankly, this world they view is just… horrible…. every post about Roosh & cia seems to get sadder and sadder.

pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
7 years ago

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III : LOL that was precious, btw

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

@feintone It’s called Perineal Urinary Antiassociation. also called Male Gonad Tertiary Orchiopathy Weakening

kittehserf
7 years ago

I’m reminded of some jackass on HuffPo a couple of years ago, going on about how good “hate sex” is. That comment got all the side-eye, but I doubt these idiots would even make that claim. MordsithJ’s thinking intestines might be on to something here!

katz
7 years ago

Maybe he thinks the large intestine is the same as the brain because both of his do nothing but produce shit.

bbeaty
bbeaty
7 years ago

The next time and MRA demands to know what feminists are doing about prison rape, the answer should be “Not glorifing it as a model for adult relationships.”

Salacious
7 years ago

LOL @ opium4themasses

@ Argenti

Yeah, I know beta can survive in smaller tanks, but doesn’t mean they’re particularly happy about it. I just looked up cories, they’re pretty cute! I would probably not know what to do if they started breeding out of control. But might be worth it if I can get all females.

I’ll have to look up the DIY sponge filter, sounds like a good idea.

kittehserf
7 years ago

@feintone It’s called Perineal Urinary Antiassociation. also called Male Gonad Tertiary Orchiopathy Weakening

Complicated in their cases by extreme rectocranial inversion.

Salacious
7 years ago

@bbeaty touché

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
7 years ago

Two men having anal sex is not gay! Only of course if you’re on the receiving end then you’re a fag and a bitch and deserve contempt, but if you’re the one giving it then there is no problem at all you’re still a man and not gay.

Gotta love the misogynistic hamster spinning.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

Maybe everyone is on to something with the kidney thing. Kidneys are filters and these guys apparently have none.

kittehserf
7 years ago

They’re terrified of vulnerability, and people who can’t allow themselves to be vulnerable can’t enjoy sex.

This. They don’t like or trust anyone, not even the so-superior dudes; everything’s a fight, a zero-sum game, and the only way to “win” is to frighten, humiliate or deprive the other person of something, somehow. What miserable specimens they are …

feintone
7 years ago

@Mordsith or another theory, where they grew up watching porn where the men lasted half an hour at least and the women screamed loudly in pleasure. then their first sexual experience happened and it was almost the opposite.

instead of accepting that sex wasn’t really like it is in porn and working to improve their performance, they blamed the woman for making him feel inadequate by not moaning loudly. from then on they’ve never enjoyed sex, and resented women for that fact.

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
7 years ago

Re: prostitutes, they are human beings. So the thing about paying a woman (I assume, in this case) to do something specific for you (anal, in this case), is that you PAID HER. So you’re no longer the guy dominating her and making her your bitch, because the nature of the relationship is a transaction. And transactions, like many actual relationships, require you to give something in order to get something, and that is the opposite of what these guys advocate for.

Now if the question is why don’t they just go out and RAPE prostitutes, THAT would dovetail with their thinking, or whatever they do with apparently their intestines.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

Love is a battlefield and they wanna be Rambo(ne).

I remember thinking of sex as a thing being taken and I still carry part of that silliness in the back of my mind sometimes. However, I remember some lovely women who have disabused me of that. Shit, it is like they stopped processing in their thinking about sex in high school. I regularly think of the me of 5 years ago as an idiot, on a continual basis. Growth is human.

I guess it is the echo chamber effect. I just feel sad at the idea.

MaudeLL
7 years ago

I’m getting really fucking fed up with prison rape jokes. It’s gotten to the point where they make prison rape jokes on the CBC (Canadian public broadcasting) on family shows. I just had to get that out.

(On a side note: not fond of the ‘I bet these misogynists never had sex’ comment(s) here either. Assholes be assholes be assholes. Sex frequency has nothing to do with it.)

kittehserf
7 years ago

Lili Fugit – heaping on the irony, these same guys spend half their time talking about how relationships are all transactional (meaning without love, liking or anything except a cold swapping of services). Yet suggest they have an actual, literal transaction of money for sex and they get pissy all over again.

They seem to want contradictory things: to have women falling all over them, doing whatever they want, and enraptured by their dudely seduction/sexual techniques; and to be forcing women to do things we don’t want, to be beating us down, whether physically, mentally or both, in order to impose their wills.

kittehserf
7 years ago

And curls = brain?

Getting a perm increases your brainpower! Science!

bbeaty
bbeaty
7 years ago

@cassandra

“I’ve been saying this about these guys for ages – what they want isn’t’t sex, it’s the ability to dominate women to prop up their own egos. The sex is just a means to an end, none of them seem to enjoy it very much.”

Yes. Look all the talk about entitled women and dogs and lack of gratitude. They *say* it’s about sex and sexual pleasure — they might even believe it themselves, but give most of them the chance for really hot sex with a willing partner who is their equal and bad/no sex with someone they can dominate and be better than in all areas of life and they will choose domination (and not the sexy fun kind).

bbeaty
bbeaty
7 years ago

look *at* all the talk…

Sorry.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

@MaudeLL It is a thing both MRAs and people mocking them do. The incels *shiver* are always on the other side. Who are uniquely all the worst character traits. I often hear from commenters here how many of my physical traits are the generic MRA traits. The internet trades in these barbs enough that I have largely gotten over it.

Still with all the bullshit false victimhood from MRAs and the privileges I do enjoy, this seems like something not worth bringing up.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I don’t suppose it occurs to them that the “lack of gratitude” might just be a result of having had indifferent-to-bad sex with someone you will never want near you again.

Though of course that comment in the OP about women enjoying vaginal sex (quelle horreur!) says it’s more than just incompetence with these creeps – or at best, they’re incompetent and incredibly defensive about it. What? Sex is more than her doing all the work and you shoving it in for 2.5 seconds till you come? The nerve!

kittehserf
7 years ago

The lack-of-experience lines don’t bother me, though I’m squarely in that category (in an earthly context). The bizarre claims these morons make so often do leave me wondering if it’s not just their misogyny at fault, but if they’ve ever had contact with any woman.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Salacious — cories usually lay 50+ eggs when spawning, but I’ve never had more than 10 fry from a spawning survive, and they don’t grow that fast — even my big guy will be 3+ months before being moved out of the breeding tank. So if your local fish store will take them once they’re reasonably grown, you could just do that. Other, less savory options include trashing them before they hatch and getting tetras or danios or such, they’ve been known to eat eggs (the, uh, cardinal? tetras downstairs love cory eggs, the danios don’t seem to really like them [works well actually, the only male in the downstairs tank is sterile])

And this is my second batch of eggs from these parents, two weeks or so after the first — same this happened downstairs before the other male died — spawn, lay a shit ton of eggs, 10~ survivors, lay another shit ton of eggs, another 10~, nothing for a month and then that tank decided it hated me and had another round of ammonia spikes from nowhere and the father died. They don’t breed like snails in other words, and I raised 20~ in a 10g to nearly full grown with no crowding, this batch is in my 2.5g with no issues so far. I’ll probably move them sooner, but sooner here is 3~4 months instead of 5.

Not that any of that is an issue if you get all girls!

Sponge filters are super easy, you basically just need a suitable sponge, a tube, and an airstone. Or doctor fosters sells them, but I’m only caving and buying some for the breeding tank, and a bit of backup for puff (and to have a cultured sponge if I need to convert the terrarium to a hospital tank in a hurry)…but I have four tanks, a DIY is fine if you aren’t running a zoo!

CassandraSays
7 years ago

You have to love how the question of whether or not their theoretical future sex partner is or is not willing to consent to anal sex doesn’t even occur to them as a thing that might be worth addressing. There isn’t even a “this is how you talk her into anal”, it seems to just be assumed that you force her to accept whatever you feel like doing to her.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Which is the subtext to all their shit, of course. The whole PUA idea is about “persuading” (coercing or forcing) women into sex they don’t want. Mutual attraction or pleasure would just spoil it.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
7 years ago

@cassandra Obviously. I mean how else would you win at the sex?

CassandraSays
7 years ago

@ kittehs

I don’t think competence is even relevant really, since they actively want to make sex something that the woman won’t enjoy.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Relevant and related, I think – I’ve read a couple of studies on men who visit sex workers on a regular basis where one of the common traits that emerged was that they actively resented any show of pleasure on the part of the sex worker. Basically if she seemed to be enjoying herself they felt like they were being ripped off, which is rather telling.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Good point. I suppose the most skill they think’s necessary is ‘where to shove it’.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Ewww, that comes into the “horrible but unsurprising” category. It also puts me in mind of something a friend said years ago – that the sex workers he knew (yeah this is getting third-hand!) preferred doggy-style because for some reason it made the men ejaculate much faster, and all the sex workers wanted was for those bastards to come and go ASAP.

MaudeLL
7 years ago

@opium
I hear you. From my perspective, it’s worth bringing up. Not to ‘protect’ the PUA/MRA/MGTOWs but rather because I think it frames people’s worth on validation through sex (always heterosexual, too). To me, it’s similar to the occasional comment ‘[this misogynist] must have a small dick.’
Women have been policed on their sexuality for so long. It’s a shitty thing to do not to Roosh et al, but to all the decent people who don’t have sex.

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

Oh lordy…I read through the psychological horror that was a second Love Shy thread on Why God Why, then came right here to read this. That was just too much. I needed some brain bleach badly.

Allow me to share some of it with you:

MaudeLL
7 years ago

@kitteh
Yeah… I am friends with a sex worker who told me she prefers doggy because she can avoid eye contact and sloppy French kissing from old rich dudes.
It’s really sad.

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
7 years ago

I’ve read a couple of studies on men who visit sex workers on a regular basis where one of the common traits that emerged was that they actively resented any show of pleasure on the part of the sex worker.

Hm, that’s interesting. During my very, very, VERY short career as a sex worker, one of the things I found most annoying was the way dudes wanted me to fake liking it. Takes all kinds, I guess.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

I can’t find links to either study right now, but they did seem to be making a distinction between guys who visit sex workers every once in a while and guys for whom it’s their main recreational activity. They didn’t seem to mean all customers, more a specific subset.

kittehserf
7 years ago

To me it’s very specifically “this man’s misogyny + hyped-up claims about his sexual prowess + remarkable ignorance about sex, women and anatomy in general = serious question about whether he’s just making shit up from his porn-fed fantasies.” It’s not the inexperience that’s the problem, it’s a question of just how much of their tales are lies.

BUT if that’s causing splash damage to other people reading it, I’ll leave it be.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Maude – yes, I’ve read about the men wanting to kiss being the thing many women sex workers really dislike. They can dissociate from the vaginal penetration, but not the kissing.

BritterSweet – d’aww gorgeous porcupine! I have to keep reminding myself, “Those are SPINES not long hair, petting would be a really. bad. idea.”

CassandraSays
7 years ago

I feel like some day I may try to hug a porcupine (because brain overpowered by awwww) and end up as an entry in a Darwin Awards book.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Owwww!

kittehserf
7 years ago

I wonder if porcupines are the Furrinati’s strike squad? The deadly power of cute …