We met new A Voice for Men writer Clint Carpentier earlier this week, when we took a look at a recent post of his waxing nostalgic about the good old days before marital rape laws, when wives couldn’t say “no” to their husbands and expect the law to take this no any more seriously than a husband intent on rape.
In a second posting, he’s doubled down on the whole marital rape thing and incorporated into a vast and fantastical vision of the past and future of humankind that bears so little resemblance to reality that it’s worth quoting in detail as a sort of case study in Men Going Their Own Way delusions.
Carpentier, clearly a Man Going His Own Way From Reality, begins with a brief and erroneous survey of human prehistory that he seems to have picked up at the University of His Own Ass:
The concept of marriage is relatively new to the human species, but was based on the ancient contract emotionally agreed upon by our primitive ancestors when they discovered that due to their big brains, their offspring were born less mature by necessity than other, less intelligent species; this contract promoted the exchange of three C’s (cooking, cleaning, and copulation) from the female, and three P’s from the male (protection, provision, and progeny).
So not only is Carpentier returning to his notion that compulsory copulation is proper wifely duty, but he apparently thinks that the prehistoric “wife” sat around the cave all day eating neolithic bon bons while her husband marched off to hunt mammoths for her — or perhaps commuted by foot-powered car to his job as a Brontosaurus crane operator at Slate Rock and Gravel Company.
In fact, the notion that male hunters were the main providers in prehistoric society seems to have been little more than a projection of the patriarchal attitudes of older generations of anthropologists onto the past. As best as we can figure it today, prehistoric women were involved not only in extensive gathering but in hunting as well, probably providing the bulk of the calories in the prehistoric diet.
To Carpentier, apparently, it’s all gone to hell since our days in the caves. Today, he laments, “the legal system has been unabashedly twisting the ancient contract into something that amounts to slavery” for men, while giving women more benefits, including the ability to say no to sex, which Carpentier, as in his previous post, describes as a terrible hardship for men:
The responsibilities for women have been eliminated by technology and gender politics, while at the same time their contract benefits have increased. On the whole what was once her responsibility, to copulate, has become whim and weapon. With a legal system in place which has been designed for her to exploit and abuse, it is becoming increasingly difficult to trust women enough to even associate with, never mind marry.
Yep, we’re now coming to the “I’m taking my ball and going home” part of Carpentier’s rant, a necessary part of any MGTOW manifesto worth its salt.
What women didn’t realize was that the very things which made their lives easier – be they appliances or conveniently boxed pre-made meals at the grocery store – simultaneously reduced the necessity for women.
Let’s let that sink in for a moment: because of washing machines and TV dinners, half of the human population is becoming obsolete.
Women have inadvertently been reduced to gestational incubators; everything else, men can take care of on their own.
But Carpentier is convinced that SCIENCE will soon find a way to create what he calls a “gestational beer keg” to enable men to make a little end-run around that traditional (cis) womanly function. All men will need is their eggs, and well, that won’t be a problem:
[M]ake no mistake, women will sell their eggs, and they’ll do it willingly, just as they sell their bodies … And with the advent of Vasagel, a male fertility inhibitor, which is safe, reversible, and lasts roughly ten years per shot, women will lose the stranglehold of procreation over men.
So, wait, do men want to be able to gestate babies in beer kegs, or do they want to avoid having kids altogether? To Carpentier it hardly seems to matter, as his main goal seems to be to say “I told you so” to women.
At this point Carpentier puts on his futurist cap and sets forth what he sees as two possible futures for humanity.
The first, and most obvious answer – and one I so dearly hope for – is women wake up, grow up, and take responsibility for their own life choices. Women are not children, and husbands are not their dads. A radical paradigm shift will have to happen before men begin to have trust in the ancient contract again. A burgeoning respect for the sex that created and continues to maintain the civilization women so blithely enjoy would be nice. Men have been working on it for five thousand years specifically for women. A little recognition would be appreciated.
WE HUNTED THE MAMMOTH TO FEED YOU!
And then he says the first positive thing about women I’ve seen him say:
This isn’t about misogyny. This is about disillusionment; we love women, we love their flustered approach to parallel parking, we love it… lift something heavy, or get something high down, we love their sense of helplessness, even when we know they’re not.
That’s right: the only thing he likes about women is what he imagines to be their general incompetence and their possibly feigned “sense of helplessness.”
You know what I love about MGTOWers? Their endless troubles with the basics of grammar. Diagram that last “sentence” of his. I dare you!
In any case, in this scenario, the only way women will be able to get themselves back in the good graces of the men they have wronged by, I guess, not wanting to be raped by their husbands, is for them to admit they were wrong and ask gently for forgiveness:
Men might not be willing to accept the ancient contract back, but we have an amazing capacity to forgive a guilty smile, just meet us halfway, we can work this out.
If women don’t return to men, humbled and ashamed, Carpentier predicts a rather more dramatic future. That is to say: THE APOCALYPSE.
It will start slow, with stores refusing service to those who don’t have the mark of the beast tattooed on their foreheads.
Sorry, wrong apocalypse:
The second thing I can see happening is MGTOW’s becoming criminalized. And here’s how it will happen: it’ll start with a single’s tax, applicable only to men, specifically men who live underneath the tax bracket.
Yeah, this will happen shortly after Congress passes the Monkeys Flying Out of My Butt Revenue Enhancement Opportunity Act of 2014.
Oh, but the Revelations of Clint Carpentier are just getting started. After taxing all the single men, the evil gynocracy will go after their sperm:
If Vasagel can’t be quashed at the FDA level, it will become highly taxed, or just made outright illegal; it’s unlikely anyone with a criminal record, however slight, will be allowed to get a Vasagel injection, on the fear that the doctor may well lose his practicing license. You’ll watch as your fathers, uncles, brothers, friends, get picked up one by one, for what will boil down to not manning up and doing their duty as “men.”
Dude, NO ONE — not even your poor abused socks — WANTS YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS.
But in Carpentier’s mind the evil gyno-governmental conspiracy to steal men’s sperm and make them all into involuntary daddies will ultimately bring everything crashing down:
You’ll feel the first shocks, as the infrastructure fails to maintain itself under the strain of invisible workers who have been imprisoned. You’ll watch as convicts are forced into slave labor to sustain the infrastructure. You’ll feel the crunch as taxes increase, then increase again, because no government seems to understand that slaves and government workers cannot create GDP; without GDP, you have no tax base, without a tax base, you can’t maintain a government, and a large portion of women work for the government, whether directly or through welfare.
And then Carpentier pulls out his trump card:
And this is only if men are so kind as not to revolt.
Yep. It’s always the same old story with these guys: If you don’t listen up, ladies, the world you know will collapse, MEN will arise as one in fury at the women who destroyed the civilization they worked so hard to build, and a new MANLY MALE MANARCHY will put itself in charge.
And presumably the marital raping will begin in earnest again.
Once again, it all comes down to fury that women can say “no.”
My favorite version of the Four Fs is “fighting, fleeing, feeding, and reproducing”. But anyway, I’m off to eat my microwave dinner and visit the sock drawer, because I’m an MGTOW and we all know that only men are involved in the production of microwave dinners and Special Socks.
The only thing that has become obsolete are men who think women are domestic and sexual slaves that pop out babies for them. Go your own way, fella. Nobody will notice or care.
I know …I was just trying to say sometimes I can’t joke about it and I feel like a real fuddy duddy because I am more angry than irritated and sarcastic.
I am grateful though our laws side on the side or righteous order in this case.
Andrew, I think the reason for the rant is that he resents the fact that women have the audacity to exist even though he doesn’t want to fuck/marry them. It would be like a kid ranting about how shops sell chocolate even though (s)he don’t like chocolate except for the fact that no kid is stupid enough to do that.
MGTOW are terrifying, not because they don’t want to marry but because they feel they should have the right to never interact with a woman. As such, they argue women shouldn’t be allowed in the workplace etc. They seem to want a genocide of woman. They might not advocate for it in those terms but it is the only way to have a society where men don’t support women and women aren’t allowed to work or have government support or charity.
David, that sounds too good for them. I vote for Ferdinandea (I don’t care what Wiki calls it, it will be Ferdinandea to me forever).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinandea
Hi all. Had some bad weeks, am getting better. I am still trying to limit my triggers.
You know…
There are people who have no interest in forming either romantic or sexual relationships and find single living arrangements completely fulfilling and not at all lonely or a punishment for anyone. Many of these people are aromantic asexuals. And the thing about these people versus all the whiny MGTOWers is that they don’t spend this long whining or carrying on about why they aren’t dating or having sex. They just go and do it and often don’t mention it until they have to explain for the fifty thousandth time to some douchebag why this doesn’t make them some kind of freak.
What these fuckers want to do is try to force women to accept a voluntary rollback of the clock and forfeit all rights and freedoms and accept a role as houseslaves once again and they are somehow stupid enough to think that all the bullshit they used to bully women back in the day (if you don’t get married, we’ll economically and socially punish you and any pregnancies will be treated far harsher and be subject to far fewer health care options) were somehow things that women were a big fan of (those women will totally be willing to be my sex slave/maid as long as I give her that “married” title… why isn’t this working, it’s supposed to be working! I WILL STRIKE UNTIL IT WORKS AGAIN).
It’s a petulant little man-child banging his shoe against the table until he gets his way, unable to grasp that history is moving on without him. As everyone says, go, you fucker, no one will miss your rapist ass.
Chie-
Yeah, which is really their real complaint. That it is socially acceptable to be single or in a gay relationship or even in a poly arrangement. That one need not be forced into marriage in order to survive economically and socially anymore.
Because the marriage trap was a great scam for them back in the day and they hate the notion that greater options means that less women are likely to put up with their rapist abusive bullshit just to avoid the even more oppressive social consequences of being a public older non-married person.
In short, they don’t even crave the 1950s that never were. What they really crave were the days when you could throw nonvirgins, widows, and “choosy” damsels on the street to serve as prostitutes and they won’t stop whining until we all give up our thriving modern society to hand that to them… and then randomly make them a nobleperson likely to benefit from that bullshit, because HA any of these fuckers being able to handle being a peasant in that kind of society.
What kind of blows my mind is his panic about not beig able to get a contraceptive procedure he wants – a restriction that doesn’t exist – while woman are increasingly losing access to reproductive health care across the US.
It’s almost like it’s him feeling the pressure about reproductive rights, but not beig able to recognize women’s reality, and instead inventing a male version of it where the villans are women.
katz-
WAAAAHHH! And-and-and we’ll have babies too! But not like wussy girly ways like carrying it inside of us for 9 months or anything with pink or squishy girly biology, we’ll have like beer cans. Ooh, a beer keg. Inside a giant hotrod! On the truck bed of a giant monster truck driven by a guy so jacked up on steroids that my hard-on starts…I mean, that he becomes very super manly and not at all attractive!
You’ll see, feminazis! You’ll all see!
/snark
Yeah, isn’t it funny how cooking in a domestic (read: unpaid) manner is seen as woman’s work, yet as a paid profession it’s somehow still dominated by men?
“If Vasagel can’t be quashed at the FDA level, it will become highly taxed, or just made outright illegal; it’s unlikely anyone with a criminal record, however slight, will be allowed to get a Vasagel injection, on the fear that the doctor may well lose his practicing license. You’ll watch as your fathers, uncles, brothers, friends, get picked up one by one, for what will boil down to not manning up and doing their duty as “men.””
Gee, I can’t imagine having to face losing control of your reproduction. [/sarcasm]
“What women didn’t realize was that the very things which made their lives easier – be they appliances or conveniently boxed pre-made meals at the grocery store – simultaneously reduced the necessity for women.”
‘Cause, y’know, I’m only good for cooking, vacuuming, or washing clothes. Nevermind that I support myself just fine.
And on the flip side, does that mean that things which make “masculine” parts of life easier– be they guns or forklifts– reduce the necessity for men?
(Been lurking for a while, decided to actually join in the fun. *waves*)
Why are these so called Men Going Their Own Way so self-deluded that anyone wants to marry them or be in any kind of meaningful relationship with them?
Re: The cooking debate. When a task is done by a woman it is devalued.
“While I was plundering the fantasy world for the next cliche to pulls a few laughs from, I found one which was so deeply ingrained that you hardly notice it is there at all. In fact it struck me so vividly that I actually began to look at it seriously.
That’s the generally very clear division between magic done by women and magic done by men.
Let’s talk about wizards and witches. There is a tendency to talk of them in one breath, as though they were simply different sexual labels for the same job. It isn’t true. In the fantasy world there is no such thing as a male witch. Warlocks, I hear you cry, but it’s true. Oh, I’ll accept you can postulate them for a particular story, but I’m talking here about the general tendency. There certainly isn’t such a thing as a female wizard.
Sorceress? Just a better class of witch. Enchantress? Just a witch with good legs. The fantasy world. in fact, is overdue for a visit from the Equal Opportunities people because, in the fantasy world, magic done by women is usually of poor quality, third-rate, negative stuff, while the wizards are usually cerebral, clever, powerful, and wise.
Strangely enough, that’s also the case in this world. You don’t have to believe in magic to notice that.
Wizards get to do a better class of magic, while witches give you warts.”
http://ansible.co.uk/misc/tpspeech.html
And, in conclusion
“Now you can take the view that of course this is the case, because if there is a dirty end of the stick then women will get it. Anything done by women is automatically downgraded. This is the view widely held — well, widely held by my wife every since she started going to consciousness-raising group meetings — who tells me it’s ridiculous to speculate on the topic because the answer is so obvious. Magic, according to this theory, is something that only men can be really good at, and therefore any attempt by women to trespass on the sacred turf must be rigorously stamped out. Women are regarded by men as the second sex, and their magic is therefore automatically inferior. There’s also a lot of stuff about man’s natural fear of a woman with power; witches were poor women seeking one of the few routes to power open to them, and men fought back with torture, fire and ridicule.
I’d like to know that this is all it really is. But the fact is that the consensus fantasy universe has picked up the idea and maintains it. I incline to a different view, if only to keep the argument going, that the whole thing is a lot more metaphorical than that. The sex of the magic practitioner doesn’t really enter into it. The classical wizard, I suggest, represents the ideal of magic — everything that we hope we would be, if we had the power. The classical witch, on the other hand, with her often malevolent interest in the small beer of human affairs, is everything we fear only too well that we would in fact become.
Oh well, it won’t win me a PhD. I suspect that via the insidious medium of picture books for children the wizards will continue to practice their high magic and the witches will perform their evil, bad-tempered spells. It’s going to be a long time before there’s room for equal rites.”
(same speech)
Why do women as a group have to be thankful to men as a group? Dude seems to think because some of his male compatriots did something good throughout history, he should deserve automatic credit. What has *he* ever done that warrants respect?
In this sense he’s just like a racist who prides himself of being of a certain color and therefore positively associated with all of the (exagerrated) achievements of all other people of that same color.
Add the seperatism to that mix and MGTOWs seem to look awfully lot like well, racists. In both cases it seems to be driven by frustration and a lack of self-worth.
@Bina
::eyetwitch:: All the side eye…
@shaun darthbatman bay
Hi. Hope you keep getting better. Interweb hugs, if you want them.
Squinty eyes looking up to the ceiling to the right .Thinking.
Shaun ,
If a guy vacuums its a effing miracle. LOOK he vacuumed! YAY!!
If a woman vacuums its like …………
At the risk of repeating, I’m glad you read AVfM so that I don’t have to. It really grosses me out to go there.
But this time I forced myself, because the article was so outrageous I wondered what the comments would be like. To my surprise there was not one dissenting opinion, even from female AVfM “staff”. What must GWW and the others think about the fans who come right out and say they don’t think women are good for much but gratifying men and having an occasional baby?
Now I know that they heavily moderate their forum so that there is no chance of an actual debate going on there, but there wasn’t even a HINT!
Then t struck me: This site isn’t even for real. There are only two possibilities. Either it is some sort of spin-off of the Onion, or it is some similar group trying to work it’s way into the mainstream with outrageous spoofs.
One other possibility is that this group is funded by the vast Feminazi conspiracy as a “false flag” operation. They are cleverly using this to drive otherwise reasonable men over to the radical feminist side out of fear of losing ones sanity by hanging out with total dufuses. Based on my own experience, if this is indeed the explanation, the Radfem strategy is working.
@herman f
That’s an interesting theory you just pulled out of your ass. Anything that actually backs it up, besides your say so?
LOL I’m an MRA, and I think this guy’s nuts.
They may try to implement a bachelor tax. Obamacare comes close to doing this. It won’t have much of an affect. If they do most MGTOW will just go to CA and get gay married, problem solved. I know several men that would marry me for tax breaks.
I see no grounds that feminists would oppose Vasagel. This isn’t to say there will be no opposition. The opposition will be the same right wing nut jobs that want to restrict women’s options. Not making babies is a violation of their magical sky daddies plan. They don’t want men or women opting out of this. It will be the same battle feminists have been fighting for women’s contraceptives for decades.
The apocalypse theory is based upon mass arrests from crackpotville. As more men start MGTOW there will be less traditional relationships and more women forced to provide fully for themselves. The biggest affect of MGTOW will be less men being taken advantage of by a small group of women working the system and more women having the ‘privileged’ choices of work full time or work full time or work full time.
lana, exactly. It even happened in this thread (kudos to all the dads who do this stuff). It’s insidious. What women do has less value, even if it is exactly the same thing.
“One other possibility is that this group is funded by the vast Feminazi conspiracy as a “false flag” operation. They are cleverly using this to drive otherwise reasonable men over to the radical feminist side out of fear of losing ones sanity by hanging out with total dufuses. Based on my own experience, if this is indeed the explanation, the Radfem strategy is working.”
Thank God a *man* has arrived to tell us all what to think!
*weeps with relief*
Also, thanks Marie. Hugs back.
Reduced ? Where the hell do they think people come from ?
Im sick of this crap. They want to go back to cavemen ? And beyond. Its a woman’s body and dedication to nursing that gave the species a chance. I don’t think the little cave babies were getting formula with rice cereal.
@Shaun
I kind of want to believe that the entire speech was a setup for this joke.
“They may try to implement a bachelor tax. Obamacare comes close to doing this. It won’t have much of an affect. If they do most MGTOW will just go to CA and get gay married, problem solved. I know several men that would marry me for tax breaks.”
Careful, you’re dangerously close to gettting some racism mixed up in your sexism.
“I see no grounds that feminists would oppose Vasagel. This isn’t to say there will be no opposition. The opposition will be the same right wing nut jobs that want to restrict women’s options. Not making babies is a violation of their magical sky daddies plan. They don’t want men or women opting out of this. It will be the same battle feminists have been fighting for women’s contraceptives for decades.”
First they came for the condoms…
No wild conspiracy theories to see here, move along. (Also, did the MRA just actually admit that there’s a war on women?)
“The apocalypse theory is based upon mass arrests from crackpotville. As more men start MGTOW there will be less traditional relationships and more women forced to provide fully for themselves. The biggest affect of MGTOW will be less men being taken advantage of by a small group of women working the system and more women having the ‘privileged’ choices of work full time or work full time or work full time.”
BUT YOU ALL HUNTED THE MAMMOTH FOR US! BON BONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please just go your own way, already, and take your sexism, racism, and ableism with you. Thanks.