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Vox Day: Don't call your wife "the boss," because women are dogs, or something.

You may now lick the bride's face.
You may now lick the bride’s face.

Some married men like to jokingly refer to their wife as “the boss,” generally in a patronizing manner that suggests she’s nominally in charge of the boring everyday stuff in the household that he doesn’t really care about anyway.

But our old nemesis Vox Day isn’t having any of it. To refer to your wife as the boss, even as a joke, is to threaten to loose the forces of anarchy and chaos and feminism upon your family. Also, women are dogs. On his Alpha Game blog, he writes,

If you let a dog think he’s the boss, he will cease to defer to you and begin objecting, violently, when you interfere with what he now believes are his prerogatives. Women are no different.

That’s right. Give in an inch to your wife, and the next thing you know she’ll be sitting on the furniture and insisting on eating “people food” at the table.

It’s a tad ironic that Vox here has decided to degrade women by comparing them to dogs, when his whole “alpha” schtick is based on misguided notions about the behavior of “alpha dogs” and wolves.

It’s one thing to turn over your social calendar to your wife due to a lack of interest in the various social obligations of the family. But checking in to see if there is scheduling conflict, or simply being courteous enough to see if your wife minds if you go to the football game does not make you an employee or a child. Therefore, it does not make her the boss. And what might have been an ironic jest in the days of Mad Men is often taken quite literally now.

Marriage: an endless power struggle in which the wife must always lose.

What a lovely vision of the world!

I should also add that you should never ever, even jokingly, refer to Bruce Springsteen as “the boss” either, because if you do he’s going to be hounding you to hand in your TPS reports and forcing you to work on Saturdays. You don’t want that.

EDITED TO ADD: In the comments on Alpha Game, cailcorishev expands a bit on the whole “women-as-dogs” thing in what he evidently thinks is a humorous way:

 Since you mentioned dogs: virtually everything about disciplining a dog and being the pack leader applies to leading a woman (or children). I’m convinced that, if you took a woman on a 45-minute walk every day, as Cesar Millan recommended for dogs, it would eliminate a lot of her problems. Just make sure you lead her, having her take your arm and follow you where you want to go — or use a leash if she’s into that kind of thing.

I can only hope his wife — if there is an unfortunate woman holding this position — pees on the rug and chews up all his important paperwork.

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hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

My dad was the kind of kid who needed a leash. There’s a great pic of my grandmother hanging laundry with him hooked on to the clothesline “helping” her. If he hadn’t been, he’d have run off.

takshak
takshak
6 years ago

My current cat just flops down on the floor when I try to put the leash on him. No fussing just “you’re kidding, right?” My old cat could be leashed. I would take him to the park with the dogs. Yeah, two Rottweilers following a cat, that got a few side-eyes.

Seranvali
Seranvali
6 years ago

My parents leashed both my sister and I as toddlers. I was a rather timid child and got deeply distressed if I was misplaced even for a minute so they put a leash on me to make me feel safe. They leashed my sister because she had a habit of running off in random directions and had a very near miss with a car. I don’t think it did her and harm and I found it very reassuring.

Re cats: when I was ill I depended on mine for comfort, especially late at night and I also had a habit of wandering off in my pajamas very late the night after chemotherapy (it did terrible things to my brain) and one or other of them would go and find me and bring me home. It happened five or six times. They didn’t bother waking Mr S, they’d just go and retrieve me.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Seranvali,

That’s adorable. You have great cats :).

I think my dog (tried) to do that once. We lived fairly close to my elementary school, so Mom would walk us to/from school and bring the dog with her. Well, one day Mom picks us up, takes us out on something, and we come home a couple of hours late. Lo and behold, as we drive up to our house we see our dog trotting down the path we’d take to the school. I think she was worried about us.

CassandraSays
6 years ago

Rescue kitties! That’s adorable.

AK
AK
6 years ago

My cat (who also has a Jungle Book name…he’s a big black cat named Bagheera) loves to go out on his leash. He doesn’t walk though, he just likes to flop around in the grass and chase bugs. He was a stray barn cat who showed up as a kitten but then I brought him inside when he got sick (a respiratory infection) and now he can’t be an outdoor cat because a)he was adopted by my dog during that time and now has no fear of canines, which is quite dangerous (he is basically a dog), and b)we live in a very fragile desert ecosystem and I cannot support any outdoor cats here due to their effects on the local bird, rodent and lizard populations. Seriously, we have at least one species of bird and one species of rodent that is threatened in our area primarily due to domestic cat predation. We also have a large feral cat population which is probably largely responsible, but since cats kill for fun as well as food, I just can’t condone letting a cat outside without supervision. Plus we live in the mountains and there are too many predators here…most cats disappear within a few years of someone getting them.

Our other two cats are declawed (from back before my husband knew just how bad that procedure is…he was believed one of those vets who sells it as more of a permanent nail clipping than actually cutting off a joint) and hate wearing harnesses, but we are crazy pet people so we screened in our porch area for them. So they don’t go outside proper, but they have this big more-or-less open air enclosure where they can watch the birds eat from the feeders and enjoy the sunshine.

I never find that our cats mind not going out, not as long as we play with them and give them plenty of attention otherwise. If we miss a few days Bagheera especially will be scratching at the back door to go out, but as long as they get enough play and exercise and affection they seem pretty content. 😉

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I have only seen those leashes a couple of times. I admit, the idea of being on a leash makes me D:

But then, I don’t think as a wee singlet, we were that hard to keep track of. (Especially once we learned to read.)

kittehserf
6 years ago

Our earlier generations of cats were all indoor-outdoor ones; they were always indoors by dark (apart from a few instances of renegades taking their own sweet time getting home). These days Mads and Fribs are entirely indoors. Fribs is too old to care about going out – she’s older than I’d thought, she turned 18 in October – and I’ve never been convinced Mads would come when I called, so I’m not willing to take the risk. I tried taking her into the yard on a leash, but neither Mum nor I is really up to standing around while she potters about these days.

pecunium
6 years ago

sawburst (really… compensation much? SAW Burst? I doubt it. More like a jammed “grease gun”, where was I?, oh yeah).

Dear “man boobz”, you are a serious moron. I can even tell you’re not a male, because no male would stoop this low to make fun of the art of chauvinism and misogyny, you can’t just deny statistically proven facts. Everything that women use in their daily lives, us men did it. You don’t provide valid arguments, instead you try to be like The Onion, seriously, just stop.citation needed

BTW… Protip, if you want to look manly, and “powerful” don’t issue instructions you can’t enforce.

Protip No. 2: Don’s say stupid shit like this: You don’t provide valid arguments, instead you try to be like The Onion, seriously, just stop. when what you really mean is, “you are a poopy head”. Dave wasn’t making any arguments; so he can’t have made an invalid one (Teddy, on the other hand, made several, all of which are <a href =http://www.proofwiki.org/wiki/Definition:Invalid_Argument invalid.

If you want to make an argument (as in the attempt above) provide evidence, otherwise the intelligent people in the room are going to snicker (should they disdain to point and laugh).

“Everything that women use in their daily lives, us men did it.”

This is false. Just to take an example close to the present circumstance; if it weren’t for two women (decades apart) you’d not be blathering across the internet (google Ada Lovelace and Admiral Grace Hopper).

On a level with more dramatic effects, innocculation against smallpox was something women did, and a woman championed; in the face of all the men who “knew better”: Google Lady Whortley Montague.

But, if you want to make the specious argument that men are responsible for all the good things, you have to take the responsibility for all the bad. If the past accrues credit, it also accrues blame.

Salacious
Salacious
6 years ago

@ pecunium Agreed! Why do they get to claim ownership of something some other man did? Yet they don’t want to acknowledge that men are also responsible for a lot of problems, like the majority of domestic violence. (obvi not saying women have zero responsibility because some women are also abusers)

pecunium
6 years ago

Ashley: This is David’s site. If he has a problem with my comments, then he can say something to me. But I won’t be told what to do by other commenters,

Ah… the bully’s version of “Free Speech”. So long as no one bans you, you think you are entitled to be a raging asshole and not get called on it.

Nope. You may not choose to take the advice, but we have every right to tell you that you’re being a bloody hemorrhoid: presenting stupid claims with abusive language.

Call me a troll. Call me an asshole. I don’t care. If my comment personally offends someone, I would have no problem offering an apology if that’s what they told me.

Bullshit. This is either an outright lie, or some self-delusional defensive mechanism. Someone did tell you they found it offensive, you don’t give a shit.

David, not a problem. I extend my apologies to anyone offended.

I, for one, do not accept it. You aren’t apologising for what you did, but for our taking offense. Own your words, and admit to your actions.

pecunium
6 years ago

lana: On the whole “chemical imbalance thing” ? It doesn’t bother me so much .I’ve been known to say things such as “he needs a thorzine drip” or some “electro shock” even though I know their is not a higher instance of being a complete and utter ASS HOLE /misogynist /hater/racist let alone “stupid” with chemical imbalances.

Well aren’t you special. You know it’s not relevant, but you use it as an insult anyway. Would you do the same with skin color? Religion? Height? Some other disability?

It’s a shitty thing to do, and even worse to admit you know it’s not true.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

I’ve been toying with the idea of getting leashes for my twins, but I worry that it would look like we were running the Iditarod. So far we’ve had pretty good success with one in the stroller, the other walking next to the stroller, and switching whenever the free range twin threatens to dash off into traffic. I can’t even imagine taking them loose into a store for the next 8 years or so.

Personally, if I’m not regularly led down the sidewalk by my elbow, I get uppity, move into the corner office, and start firing people. I think that’s an MRAs biggest fear – that their job can be outsourced to, say, a small group of painful skin pustules.

Since marriage is EXACTLY LIKE A WORKPLACE and they *have* to be the boss, what is their job title, anyway? Vice Taintstain?

Hi Marie! :waves:

kittehserf
6 years ago

Buttercup – train ’em to pull a sled, like huskies. More rest for you, build up those muscles for them!

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@buttercup

Hi 😀 ::waves back::

AK
AK
6 years ago

My husband’s title is President Pooperscooper, because he does both the litterboxes (hey, 2 of the 3 cats are his) and occasionally cleans up after dogs as needed. Also he tells me to scoop the backyard when he needs to mow it (I refuse to mow the lawn on principle…we live in a desert, I don’t care if he grew up in the Midwest, it is WRONG to have even a small lawn but he insists so he can take care of the damn thing).

I am Vice Pooperscooper because I only clean up after the dogs, and aside from having to do a run-through before he mows I act mostly independently.

So I am not sure…do I trade in my feminist card because he can tell me to clean the yard and I do, or do I get extra Feminist Manhater points because I make him clean up after the cats all the time? So confused…it’s almost like our relationship is partnership that features equal compromises…but that cannot be!

LadySunami
6 years ago

That awkward moment when you post one of the “lovely” responses to Vox Day’s post under the wrong blog heading. Stupid iPhone…

Some wonderfully thought out and highly intellectual points from Matamoros:

Lesser in many ways, different in others. Man is made in the image or God, woman is made in the image of man – surely that alone illustrates the lesser. Man is a creator as is God. Man has the headship in the home and society by Divine fiat. Woman was not given the fullness of reason that a man has (St. Thomas Aquinas). She also does not have the body strength and masculine virtues such as honor and decisiveness.

In marriage, the man/husband is the captain of the ship, the woman/wife is the first mate. It is not proper English to say that they are equal but different. The man is the head/captain, and the lesser position, rank, status, being, of first mate/helpmeet is the woman.

Christ is superior to the Church, man is commanded to love his wife as Christ loves His Church. The woman is told to obey, respect, submit to, etc., the man as the Church is to be submissive and obedient to Christ. It is clearly set out – no one can claim that the Church is equal to Christ, nor that woman is equal to man.

You just have to ditch the Femianity and get back to Christianity.

Because we should defer to St. Thomas Aquinas, the man who thought sperm were tiny fetuses and women were basically baby growing receptacles, when determining if women are capable of reason. Right…

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Funny, but all the men I’ve known who ditched this particular brand of Christianity for “Femianity” turned out to be much the better for having done so.

In every conceivable way.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

Jeez, enough with the “women are inferior knockoffs of men” crap. It’s always presented as Immutable Truth, rather than self-serving baloney concocted by church elders to perpetuate their grip on authority. I’d believe it more if the speaker, 99% of the time, didn’t just so happen to be at the top of the pyramid they’re proposing.

The actual truth about power: people who demand it are the very people who should not have it.

kittehs – we’ve got enough snow on the ground now that they could probably pull a sled. I could put little booties on their feet and feed them Pop Tarts every 50 miles.

Xen
Xen
6 years ago

About cats being raised indoors, mine was. He’s fine and I occasionally let him out on porch.

Xen
Xen
6 years ago

*on the porch. I think the foreign exchange students are rubbing off on me.

Seranvali
Seranvali
6 years ago

I have a lot of really odd cat stories from that period of my life. The oddest, I think, was when I’d for some reason became obsessed with taking the bins down to the curb for the garbage truck. The following morning and gotten really confused coming back and turned off onto the footpath and headed off down the street. Mikeneko found me about ten minutes later wandering around the nature reserve at the end if the street barefoot and in my nightclothes. She stood in front of me and I tried to go around her. She moved so she was still in front of me. I stopped and she started walking around and around me so that I turned around so I could see her. Then she stopped, meowed at me and took a couple of steps towards home, then looked around to see if I was following her. I followed but she stopped every few steps and looked at me, talking to me the whole time. It took her a little while to get me home and by then Mr S was out looking for me. They seemed to know more about that was going on with me than I did and if something was wrong they made sure we knew it.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Seranvali, your stories about your caretaking cats just kind of brought a lump to my throat. So sweet.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Also, here are some emus attacking a cat toy:

kittehserf
6 years ago

In every conceivable way.

I saw what you did there.

/mindingutter

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

Argenti:

(I fit in a kitty collar ^.^ )

That’s…surprising.

I’m more of a dog person anyway.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

My parents used reins on us as children. I vividly remember trotting along pretending to be a pony while wearing reins, at the age of about 3 – mine even had bells on them. 🙂

So is this why, despite not having a man ordering me about at home, I have managed not to pee on the carpet or chew the furniture? Because I was well trained as a puppy child?

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Actually, Plato also made a dog-woman comparison. Although his was much more benign. In “the Republic” he writes that the difference between a bitch and a male dog is pretty much the same as the difference between a woman and a man – the bitch/woman is usually a bit smaller and lighter in build, and she is the one who bears children. Still, when it comes to dogs, nobody questions that both sexes can be used as hunting dogs, guard dogs and so on. So is there any reason to think that women wouldn’t be able to do all the jobs that men do if they were given the chance?

MacSloane87
MacSloane87
6 years ago

I dearly hoped thart this Vox Day fellow was a troll, or a parody of MRA members, but I’ve read some of his articles on his blog and he seems to be the real deal. That’s actually depressing.

When someone literally compares women to a dogs, how can you even make fun of him? Satiric humor is based on hyperboles and exaggerations, but Vox is so misognistic he’s his own caricature. By quoting him, you’re already mocking him, at least in the eyes of whoever has a tiny scap of human decency left in their brains.

PS: I’m a long time lurker, first time poster. I usually just laugh and shake my head at this extreme batshit craziness of MRAs and assorted misoginists that you expose, but this is the first time I suspected you happened to stumble on a parody troll.

Sadly, this doesn’t seem to be the case.

MacSloane87
MacSloane87
6 years ago

Edit: “misogynistic” and and “misogynists”. Apparenlt the sheer craziness of Vox have irritatated me so much that I forgot how to spell.

Ashley
6 years ago

pecunium, I did own my words and I did apologize for them, more than once. How many times do I need to? I AM truly sorry for offending anyone and if you accuse me of anything otherwise is just your own personal accusation. But only I know the truth. You do not. You are not accepting it either way, as you just said…and that’s fine. But it’s really none of my business whether or not you believe me or accept my apology. That’s your business. I did what I needed to do and that’s all I can do. Beyond that is out of my hands and none of my business.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Actually, Plato also made a dog-woman comparison. Although his was much more benign. In “the Republic” he writes that the difference between a bitch and a male dog is pretty much the same as the difference between a woman and a man – the bitch/woman is usually a bit smaller and lighter in build, and she is the one who bears children. Still, when it comes to dogs, nobody questions that both sexes can be used as hunting dogs, guard dogs and so on. So is there any reason to think that women wouldn’t be able to do all the jobs that men do if they were given the chance?

D’oh! “All women are bitches” just took on a meaning that the MRAsshats didn’t intend…

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
6 years ago

‘So is there any reason to think that women wouldn’t be able to do all the jobs that men do if they were given the chance?’

No need to speculate, just look at history. Especially what happened during both world wars. Only misogynists speculate about something that already happened.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
6 years ago

@ashley Many people see apologizing for offense as a nonapology. You’re not apologogizing for what you did, you’re apologizing for how they feel. This is just like how adding a but to the end of an apology makes you look like an ass.

I swear am trying to avoid condescension. I have certainly said dumb or insensitive stuff. Then I took my lumps and stopped digging. It might be best to let this drop and avoid salting the wound.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

*throws up hands in the air, because I really do care*

Oh Jesus, more crazy talk. Mac, please don’t do that.

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

Why am I not surprised? Vox Day’s always been a little screwy, from what I’ve seen.

And, I hate to but in, but can y’all please drop the Ashley issue(not referring to everybody, just those who keep bringing her up)? Dave’s already dealt with her, and she *did* apologize(even if she could have worded some things much better, that I’ll agree on). So, no need to keep ragging on her, because it’s only digging that hole ever deeper; I’d like to sincerely suggest getting back more on topic.

@Mac: Dunno about “crazy”, TBH. I personally think he’s just an arsehole with a major attitude problem.

alternatesteve90
6 years ago

@Diana:

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Artic Ape — the larger ones, like Maine coon sized, my Wayward Victorian Girl costume choker is ~11″ — add in the stretch of kitty collars and they fit (I could go puppy sized, but the nylon cat ones are far more comfy seeing how I’m not covered in fur!)

Hellkell — yeah, that’s my only response at this point. Acceptable things to call batshit crazy — yourself. Acceptable things to call crazy — yourself and people okay with you calling them crazy (e.g. you, pecunium, some others here calling me crazy wouldn’t bug me). Unacceptable things to call any variation on crazy — assholes, assholery, bigots, bigotry, etc. (not lecturing you, I hope that’s obvious!)

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Totally obvious, Argenti.

I’ve really been making a concerted effort to eradicate my own usage of “crazy” and related terms in meatspace. Being here was a real eye opener, because that kind of language towards mental illness is EVERYDAMNWHERE, and I’m sure the vast majority of people use it without really thinking about what it could mean to someone.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

Argenti – Cool, if it serves your tastes. Although they do make some really comfy padded dog collars…

(I have to go sleep and then family business. I hate my time zone.)

lana
lana
6 years ago

pecunium, I did own my words and I did apologize for them, more than once. How many times do I need to? I AM truly sorry for offending anyone and if you accuse me of anything otherwise is just your own personal accusation. But only I know the truth. You do not. You are not accepting it either way, as you just said…and that’s fine. But it’s really none of my business whether or not you believe me or accept my apology. That’s your business. I did what I needed to do and that’s all I can do. Beyond that is out of my hands and none of my business.

Ashley ,

I have a feeling you wont like what Im about to say but maybe you need to hear it because Im neutral .

What you did was dismissed the people you offended .(some in the community here) and called on David to tell you not to mention such things if it upset some in the community . Then and only then apologized . Your mistake was not taking the individuals feelings into account until you were told to by the boss. That is not sincere . You yielded to authority sure . But dismissed your “equal’s ” concerns .

Its really hard to believe an apology when you were not sorry until you are corrected by a higher up.

You won’t make many friends that way . If you are indifferent to individuals you have even inadvertently offended.

kittehserf
6 years ago

lana, well said.

Ashley claimed to have done this once, a year ago, which is bullshit. It was more often and much more recent. It also makes saying “only I know the truth” risible, even if she’s talking about her feelings.

All that doubling down and going into attack mode to the commenters in general, then suddenly getting apologetic after David called her out – yeah, that’s so sincere.

I’m with Pecunium, this notpology doesn’t mean a thing. She’s apologised before and gone right back to doing it.

@MacSloane87, hi, have a Welcome Package! http://artistryforfeminismandkittens.wordpress.com/the-official-man-boobz-complimentary-welcome-package/

Ashley
6 years ago

When I was first called out, I wasn’t thinking about the feelings of others, because it wasn’t presented to me in the best way. All I was hearing was a demand that to me, was rather domineering “Just stop” I’m not going to respond well to that. It took me a minute to sit back and think, after some other people’s comments who worded their perspective in a way that actually inspired me to think about what I had said rather than just trying to tell me to stfu.

lana
lana
6 years ago

Ashley ,

Are you saying the correction was too harsh?

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@MacSloane87

Hi and welcome. And friendly reminder not to be calling mra’s stuff batshit craziness, they’re hateful, not crazy.

@ashley

I can get needing to take a moment and think about the shit you’ve said (I’ve had to do that before too, before it sunk in) but nobody owes you a polite response when you’re being bigoted. People shouldn’t have to phrase shit nicely to get you to stop being ableist.

(idk if that made sense to anyone else? Am I making sense?)

katz
6 years ago

When I was first called out, I wasn’t thinking about the feelings of others

Well, there’s your problem.

Ashley
6 years ago

Then, after I apologized, people feel the need to tell me it’s not good enough for them…as if they expect me to do more in trying to prove myself…I don’t know what else those folks want from me.

moldybrehd
6 years ago

I usually just laugh and shake my head at this extreme batshit craziness of MRAs and assorted misoginists…

Apparenlt the sheer craziness of Vox have irritatated me so much that I forgot how to spell

*head desk*

lana
lana
6 years ago

Ashley look what was said to me.

Well aren’t you special. You know it’s not relevant, but you use it as an insult anyway. Would you do the same with skin color? Religion? Height? Some other disability?

It’s a shitty thing to do, and even worse to admit you know it’s not true.

katz
6 years ago

Ashley. I know you have no idea what people are annoyed about or why, but if you want any chance of remaining in the good graces of this commentariat, you will shut up about this. Now. Permanently.