Has A Voice for Men just declared itself in favor of marital rape?
In the midst of a long and otherwise fairly tedious piece complaining about wives asking their husbands to do their fair share of the chores, Clint Carpentier offers some rather startling thoughts on marital rape laws, and how he thinks they help to make marriage a losing proposition for modern men.
In the good old days, he writes, “sex was a wifely duty she was obligated to provide as per the terms of marriage.” But “since the advent of ‘marital rape,’ sex [in marriage] is no longer a loving duty, so it has become whim and weapon … .”
Yep. Apparently “being raped by your husband” is really just a way to fulfill your “loving duty” as a wife.
So, Carpentier concludes, if wives demand that you do the chores around the house, and you can’t rape them at will, what’s the point of even having one in the first place? After all, he argues, in an age of washing machines and readymade meals chores are easy, and men can get “once per day of blasé sex” from “any street-hooker” or splurge on “mind-blowing sex once a week [from] a well trained call-girl.”
And so, he writes,
If women are demanding that their husbands do their “fair share” of the chores, then why do men need wives at all? In man’s attempt to make their wives lives easier, they have reduced the wifely duties to next to non-existent. Why, women? Why oh why would you drive those final coffin nails of obsolescence in? Aside from children, there’s no benefit left to having a wife.
Well, if the only “benefits” you can see in having a wife are someone who will do the cooking and cleaning and whom you can rape at will, then, no, there is no benefit to you in having a wife now that marital rape is illegal. And there is certianly no benefit to any woman in marrying or dating or possibly even being in the same room as you.
Where have all the good men gone? Well… where have all the good women gone?
That’s right: A man who considers marital rape to be a husband’s right honestly thinks that he’s one of the good ones.
AVFM’s Paul Elam loves to rail against the evils of traditionalism and chivalry. Interesting that marital rape is one element of traditionalism he apparently has no problem with.
Cloudiah: Why were you at the hospital? I hope you (and everyone else) are OK?
“I want not to have sex with you.”
-ERROR-
@katz, See November’s open thread. (Short version: My mother had a stroke. 2013 continues to be terrible. I am at the stage where I want to swaddle every person I care about in bubble wrap to try to protect them.)
Yeah, no. People who aren’t feminists constantly claim that things that aren’t rape are rape. While also claiming that things that are rape aren’t rape.
Coercion would be more like this:
Get an overdue tax bill with a threat of huge fines? IRS agent says, “I can make this go away if you sleep with me.”
I fear that a bunch of MRAs will read this and think, “I wonder how I can become an IRS agent.”
0_o
“You can’t have what you want if you don’t do what I want” and “I’m going to hurt you if you don’t do what I want” can perfectly well be the same thing. You could phrase any kind of terrible thing in terms of “you can’t have what you want” (eg, “you can’t have any food”).
Cloudiah: Oh, I missed that. You really are having a hell of a year.
Rape is… somehow related to the IRS getting your income taxes.
Rape is… not existent when the rapist blackmails the survivor or else something bad will happen, because apparently threats equal choices and equals consent.
Rape is… something that MRAs don’t understand.
God: hmm, I put the gonads on the outside where they can get hurt fairly easily, maybe not my best idea, let’s put those inside next time around
Seems quadrapeds which need to run fast need to have external balls.
Good thing I don’t like it, then … us IBS types can do that without asparagus’ help!
“Social Justice Warriors are notorious for calling coercion rape.”
I think someone confused “Social Justice Warriors” with “gamers”.
Besides, I am a Social Justice Dragonblooded anyway.
Pecunium — has anyone informed female hyenas?
I love asparagus and will eat it like a glutton even so…but I keep a bottle of Beano around just in case.
And MRAsshats are notorious for failing to realize that no means NO. Offering someone a devil’s choice instead of respecting their real choice is still rape.
AllyS: Hmm. Reminds me of a discussion I had with a libertarian. He defined coercion only as active threats, so taking advantage of another person’s misfortune is not coercive, as long as you’re not directly responsible for it. “Accept my horiffic job offer or starve” isn’t coercive, because the person making the offer isn’t directly starving you.
It was sickening to hear it applied to economics. It’s nauseating to hear it applied to rape apologetics.
This is particularly ironic, given the apparent high volume of Libertarians in the MRM who do tend to claim that taxes are tantamount to rape. Or that claim that child support is tantamount to rape. They talk about “getting raped” by the courts so much, to be honest, that’s what I thought what this thread was about when I saw the title. It took me a minute to realize they were actually talking about marital rape, but as usual showing themselves to be total fucking assholes about everything.
@leftwingfox
Yes, this is a very common argument among both libertarians (as in folks like Robert Nozick) and anarcho-capitalists (see: Murray Rothbard) in their defense of wage labor. They’re the same folks who argue for “voluntary slavery” as an extension of their defense of wage labor (and, broadly speaking, their defense of capitalism).
What they have in common, among other things, is their lack of regard for the fact that the exhortation “Work or starve” is inherently coercive because of its manipulative effect. I don’t know many people who voluntarily choose to starve themselves as an alternative to work. I’ve also seen folks from the Austrian School of Economics, such as Ludwig von Mises, actually argue that the pitifully low wages for workers in 3rd-world sweatshops are totally okay because, according to his reasoning, low wages are better than no wages at all. So it’s like they readily admit that the system they advocate is extremely oppressive.
I think when MRAs and their ilk use similar reasoning to erase certain rape victims, their thirst for power is completely exposed. Using the reasoning of power-hungry economists and political theorists to criticize feminists who call all coerced sexual penetration rape? It’s hard to see that as anything but an attempt to retain privilege.
Why, it’s almost as if they believe that only men’s agency matters!
“Voluntary Slavery”? Um, WHAT?
Basically, they argue that you can’t own something unless you can also sell it, and since people own themselves, they can also sell themselves. Right-wing libertarians and anarcho-capitalists aren’t known for having reasonable arguments.
Gag. Most of the free market fundamentalists I talk to don’t go there, because they want to pretend slavery is antithetical to capitalism rather than a happy companion of it.
To be fair, you’re right that many free market fundamentalists, anarcho-capitalists, etc. claim to be opposed to the idea of voluntary slavery. But their economic philosophy seems to inevitably support voluntary slavery anyway, so I’m always tempted to make generalizations about those people. Kind of like how I think about MRAs and their ilk.
I confess that I never fully understood anarcho-capitalists. It seems very… odd to me in a way.
Maybe because I am an anarchist and it rubs me the wrong way? Possibly…
@pineapplecookies
*Hi-5* Same here! =D Anarcho-communist. It rubs me the wrong way for the same reason. I just don’t understand how you can enforce property rights without anything even resembling the state. And those “defense associations” they talk about…*shudder*
*Anarcho-high 5* =D
It is a little hard to define my “anarchist side”, but I would guess it is quite close to anarcho-communism. I always say “anarcho-feminist” because this side will most likely remain so for me =D
I believe they make no sense whatsoever. Every anarchist event, debate, reading, etc., everybody would be like “what is up with anarcho-capitalists”. Nobody could answer, but it always felt like it was just…. incomprehensible in a way. I am with you on that, the property rights thing and the defense associations are especially weird to me.
Ech. All this shit is just really gross, and weirdly tied in with ableism in my head. (Did you know it’s totally legal in the USA to pay your disabled employees less a couple bucks an hour? Goodwill does it.) Just… UGH. DO NOT WANT.
But you’re being kind by employing them at all! (Snark aside, it means they can technically hold some job, thus no SSI, I swear that system exists to screw people)