Has A Voice for Men just declared itself in favor of marital rape?
In the midst of a long and otherwise fairly tedious piece complaining about wives asking their husbands to do their fair share of the chores, Clint Carpentier offers some rather startling thoughts on marital rape laws, and how he thinks they help to make marriage a losing proposition for modern men.
In the good old days, he writes, “sex was a wifely duty she was obligated to provide as per the terms of marriage.” But “since the advent of ‘marital rape,’ sex [in marriage] is no longer a loving duty, so it has become whim and weapon … .”
Yep. Apparently “being raped by your husband” is really just a way to fulfill your “loving duty” as a wife.
So, Carpentier concludes, if wives demand that you do the chores around the house, and you can’t rape them at will, what’s the point of even having one in the first place? After all, he argues, in an age of washing machines and readymade meals chores are easy, and men can get “once per day of blasé sex” from “any street-hooker” or splurge on “mind-blowing sex once a week [from] a well trained call-girl.”
And so, he writes,
If women are demanding that their husbands do their “fair share” of the chores, then why do men need wives at all? In man’s attempt to make their wives lives easier, they have reduced the wifely duties to next to non-existent. Why, women? Why oh why would you drive those final coffin nails of obsolescence in? Aside from children, there’s no benefit left to having a wife.
Well, if the only “benefits” you can see in having a wife are someone who will do the cooking and cleaning and whom you can rape at will, then, no, there is no benefit to you in having a wife now that marital rape is illegal. And there is certianly no benefit to any woman in marrying or dating or possibly even being in the same room as you.
Where have all the good men gone? Well… where have all the good women gone?
That’s right: A man who considers marital rape to be a husband’s right honestly thinks that he’s one of the good ones.
AVFM’s Paul Elam loves to rail against the evils of traditionalism and chivalry. Interesting that marital rape is one element of traditionalism he apparently has no problem with.
Yeah, it was skin-crawling stuff. Horrible.
”Mental illness” implies that the person who has the condition is negatively affected by it. My observations indicate that, at least for narcissistic types, psychopathy is both a boon in career aspirations and a source of pleasure. I mean, sometimes the objects of one’s manipulations don’t do what you would like, but otherwise, no heart ache, no self doubt, no fear? Sounds like a good deal if it weren’t for the being-a-terrible-human-being bit.”
Yes and no. I actually think that being a sociopath can sometimes be a painful experience, emotionally.
There is a book named The Sea Wolf, by Jack London, wherein a character, Wolf Larsen, is a brutal sociopath and the text points out repeatedly that even though he is also a strong, agile genius with an iron will, his worldview without empathy tends to torment him when he’s feeling sad or lonely. When Wolf dies, the other characters outright state that it is for the best, because Wolf was mostly miserable and found the world to be a terrible place not worth living in.
Being without heart ache, self-doubt and fear means that nobody loves you, you have no hope for a better tomorrow and that living is not really any better than death.
While I don’t own a fleshlight (and intend to keep it that way), I really don’t see anything wrong with a person of any gender using the sex toys of their preference.
Ultimately, they’re just about simulating a certain body part that may currently be lacking in your life (or you’re just in the mood for some alone time without having to worry about someone else…nothing wrong with that).
The specific part where dolls become creepy is when they make the leap from vagina simulator to girlfriend simulator. At that point it goes from masturbatory aid to surrogate relationship. Which carries with it all of the creepy, possessive, objectifying baggage that way too many men bring to real life relationships.
And let’s be honest here….any time an adult speaks to, personifies, and has relationships with an inanimate, it’s pretty weird (And while I bet some of them are just creepy assholes, it sounds a tad like mental illness to me. Although nothing says that they can’t be creepy assholes AND mentally ill). When you add in the sex component, the creep-factor skyrockets.
Granted, I would vastly prefer that these men have their oddball silicone girlfriend hobby than that they go out and treat real, living, breathing, thinking women in such a dehumanizing manner.
Please let’s not do the armchair diagnosis.
It is significant that(for the most part) their de-humanising and lack of empathy are reserved for the female half of the human race and that they seem to have no problems empathising with other (white, straight, cis) men.
And where we’re just discussing various disorders because how the human brain works or doesn’t is interesting, let’s be absolutely clear that we are not applying these to members of the manosphere.
I’m certainly no expert on the subject, but any of the men that I have encountered or heard about that have a more-than-utilitarian thing for their dolls (and are willing to let others know that they own the dolls in the first place) seem to have issues empathizing with pretty much ANY other human being.
And while it wouldn’t shock me if manosphere dudebros had a higher than average percentage of doll lovers, I certainly have nothing to base that on. And while I approve of heaping criticism in their direction, equating MRA’s and doll fetishists with each other isn’t especially helpful.
That said, I’m not out to take away from your observation that the MRM (or any privileged group of bigots) has an incredible inability (read: unwillingness) to even try to empathize with anyone different from them, regardless of how trivial the differences ultimately are.
While I don’t think that opposing bigotry in one or more areas by any means makes one immune to falling into it; it is interesting to note how often hate groups seem to swap ideas and beliefs (and no doubt members) between each other. In this case, the misogynists loving to spout off homophobic (ok, no surprise there, homophobia is in no small part a product of misogyny), racist, classist, ableist, etc. lines whenever they take a break from feminist bashing.
Sorry, Brodt, that it looked as though I was aiming my comment directly at you. You had the misfortune to post while I was writing. I was commenting on some of the comments further up.
On the doll thing,
QFT
Fair enough. I retract my criticisms of you, they no longer make any sense with that change in context. Although the parts where I referred to the MRM as a hate group stands 😉
You know what actually creeps me out the most about the Carpentier quote? His use of the word “whim.” The scandalous thing, to him, is if a woman has sex with a man because she wants to rather than because she has to.
Yes, heaven forfend that we unworthy females should have WANTS, and not just artificially-created and -enforced dependencies, which force us to SUFFER sex rather than DESIRE it.
But how dreadful that spontaneous sexy-times might happen, initiated by a woman! This must never be or society will collapse! 😉
@Brodt, it’s a theme in MGTOW writing to fantasize about the time when technology advances to be able to simulate completely immersive girlfriend experiences with a combination of virtual reality and realistic sex dolls. I think it’s supposed to replace women for the MGTOW crowd. (Leaving aside the creepiness of thinking you can simulate meaningful interaction with women with technology.)
Dolls in general creep me out and terrify me.
I STILL think the RealDoll is a better solution for people like the OP, who want something that will never refuse.
A doll is not a person and cannot feel pain or fear.
I don’t think they’d be happy with something that can’t at least simulate pain or fear. I’m pretty sure they’d build the ability to do so into their ideal-world sexbots, actually.
So fucking nasty.
I guess, when we manage to develop really fancy artificial intelligence systems and humanoid robots/virtual reality environments, people will use them to simulate all kinds of human relationships, sexual and not. Some people will simulate abuse.
Now, If your AI companion starts abusing you, call Isaac Asimov.
On Sunshine Mary’s opinion of duty sex ? Is she talking about sex for pleasure ? Which is the only reason I know of to have sex besides trying to conceive.
She said even if it is bothering him that she is not enjoying it ,and in one instance she said it might even be revolting to her, to do it anyway .
Why ?
If its a blow to his ego ,and she is revolted then WHATS the POINT?
If during and after sex he feels like crap about himself because of the experience.During sex she is repulsed , after she is relived its over with .How again is that going to reduce temptation to have an affair or get divorced ? Which was her Biblical reasoning to just do it anyway even if neither of them want to under the circumstances.
Its his duty to let her give him duty sex which is a blow to his self esteem so he would rather not .Its her duty to give him sex even though its revolting so she would rather not. That is certainly not IMO how to guard against sexual temptation .
I’ve seen the suck it up and do ‘it” for him .But that he should do it even though he doesn’t want to because of how she feels is a new one on me . It really kind of defeats the point of having sex when NEITHER one wants to at that point.
Hey honey feel like having sex ?
Uh actually that sounds pretty revolting to me right now ,and it will be obvious to you. But I will do it because God said its my duty and I HAVE to .
Oh man ! That will feel like crap .A real blow to my self esteem. But I will allow you to do it anyway because God said its my duty and I HAVE to allow you to give it to me .
We are not to “defraud’ one another of our duties no matter how bad is sucks for both of us.
Wow…how sexy is that ?
Eww…
Who wants someone to have sex with them out of obligation in the first place? “Whim” is a strange way to describe desire. Then again, “duty” is a strange way to describe rape. It’s as if men like this cannot even imagine a woman desiring them passionately.
Honestly, I can’t imagine that either. They’re repellent.
10knives, it’s possible, I suppose, but I’m skeptical. I was speaking specifically of narcissistic psychopaths, who have their grandiose delusions about themselves to keep themselves warm at night. My ex, for example, believed he was the most brilliant person ever to live. He loved himself enough to make up for any criticism thrown at him, any evidence to the contrary. Interpersonal “love” was, for him, a way of aggrandizing himself and getting what he wanted, like sex or obedience or a chance to manipulate.
I don’t know if you guys have read the whole thing but there’s plenty more ludicrous stuff in there, aside from the eye-wateringly horrible bit about marital rape laws making marital rape illegal and ain’t that a shame.
Great thing is, this article was published on what is supposed to be the most mainstream ‘activism’ site of this so-called ‘movement’, and has attracted positive responses from the commentariat there. Every time an MRA tries to claim their movement is about equality or justice between the genders, a link to this article should be all the ‘uh, NUH-UH’ response we need. Could almost be worth bookmarking for such occasions (if you often find yourselves in internet-fights with MRAs..)
Eh, I’m not convinced that a fictional character’s much use as an example.
lana – I wonder if it’s really that much of a blow to the self-esteem of a man who doesn’t see women as fully human? If our opinions don’t count and we’re his property, required to do what he wants, does it matter if we’re revolted by the thought of sex with him? It might to a man with a grain of decency who’s been brought up in the sort of Biblical toxicity Sunshinesoutherarse trots out, but if he’s the sort of full-blown misogynist the MRM attracts, he might prefer being able to impose himself on an unwilling woman.
Generally: ditto that sex dolls’ passivity and inability to be hurt or frightened probably isn’t enough for a lot of these guys. Unless they’re budding necrophiliacs, of course.
On the topic of Real Dolls – has anyone here ever seen Lars and the Real Girl? It’s definitely got a strange premise, but is probably one of my favorite movies.
Enh, I’ve heard that antisocial personality stuff is a spectrum. Some people have trouble with empathy, and yet don’t kill anyone, make anyone miserable, and just go about their lives not realizing anything about them is different. I don’t really know much about it, but I kind of balk at assuming all people who’re like this are totes teh evilz. It just sounds too much like the demonizing I hear for ALL mentally ill people. I know someone on that spectrum, and they’ve actually been really kind to me when I was having a hard time and couldn’t really benefit them myself, and they have people they love and care about. They may have trouble with empathy, and they hold dreams of ruling the world, but they try not to hurt others with it. So it’s not this insta-asshole thing.
Also, I believe that empathy is something you can learn, to some extent. Or unlearn. The problem with the assholes we mock on this site isn’t that they necessarily have trouble with empathizing with others; it’s that they specifically use it to hurt others, and teach others that hurting others this way is the best way to be.
RE: dlouwe
I have seen Lars and the Real Girl! I like it a lot too, in part because… well, honestly, I could connect with a lot of Lars struggles. My social skills might be better, but I’m fairly certain a lot of people think I’m living in cheerful delusionland to keep myself functioning, and just play along out of politeness.
Why do I click on links.
Why.
My younger son is markedly empathy deficient, mostly due to early childhood trauma. It’s painful to watch, sometimes. We’re (my husband and I) trying to teach him ways of be in the world that work around that – sort of empathy as a second language. He may never be fluent, but he’ll be able to treat other people as human shields and not as ambulatory furniture.