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Red Piller: Don't be any more angry at women for their behavior than you'd be at a dog for chewing things up.

This dog: Clearly superior to Red Pill Redditors
This dog: Clearly superior to Red Pill Redditors

Oh, Reddit! Why must you be so Reddity? As a reminder of how deeply shitty Reddit can be even outside the confines of the Men’s Rights and Red Pill and related subreddits, consider the following comment from AskReddit, in which a RedPiller responded to another comment trying to summarize the “Red Pill Philosophy” for those unfamiliar with it.

Cyralea, a dedicated Red-Pill popper himself, took issue with the notion that Red Pillers are angry. (Gosh, why would anyone think that?)  “Some are, certainly,” he wrote. “Particularly former betas who are recovering and are just discovering the nature of the world.”

But, he added,

The philosophy follows that one shouldn’t be any more angry at a women for her behaviours than one gets mad at a dog for chewing things up. We encourage self-improvement and self-respect in light of this newfound information. Some men use the knowledge to pursue sex, but others use it within their relationships/marriages. Alpha behaviours lead to healthier, stronger relationships. The women we date end up more satisfied in the long run, so both parties benefit.

I think it’s easy to get distracted by the angry people in /r/theredpill. There has been a recent influx of subscibers, so there’s been a little more angst than usual. The philosophy absolutely doesn’t hinge on anger though, though the language used may suggest such.

Emphasis added. As of this moment, this comment has a net 7 upvotes, 11 upvotes and 4 downvotes. That’s right: 11 Redditors saw this comment suggesting that women are like dogs who chew up sneakers and thought, “I’d better reward this bit of timeless wisdom! UPVOTE!”

In a followup comment, Cyralea tried to explain why the word “bitch” pops up so frequently on the Red Pill subreddit. Amongst Red Pillers, he noted, “bitches” is

literally interchangeable with “women”. It does not have the negative connotation when used there, again the same way 4Chan uses “fag”. I can understand how this seems aggressive.

Oh, “bitches” is like “fags.” Well then, no problem, use the word all you want, my dear fellow!

The mods removed this followup comment (though it’s still visible in his comment history). Apparently, in AskReddit, explicitly comparing women to female dogs is fine, and will even win you some upvotes, just so long as you don’t actually use a word meaning the same thing.

Thanks to a reader for pointing me to this very Redditty discussion.

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lana
lana
7 years ago

I agree Cass I don’t feel sorry for those women . You want to live like that fine .Just don’t go around bashing women who choose not to hate their own guts to appease their misogynist husbands and buddies .

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

Red pill women are stupid and boring. What is there to talk about, aside from “be young forever” = um, impossible, morons. What next? Seems there’s a lifetime of blowjobs, piemaking and asskissing to look forward to. (maybe the RP poster above is beginning to find the asskissing part a little nauseating.)

Maybe that’s where the spinster envy comes in. 😀

You know, I’ve had a couple of women drag their husbands into disputes with me recently. Is this a thing? One was a nice religious lady with whom I was having sort of a philosophical debate, the other was a neighbor who thought I was driving too fast (25 in a 15– I thought it was 25) and so she threatened to call the cops. Mundane neighborhood drama. After I calmed down a little, I went back to talk to her about it; instead of coming out to deal with me herself, she siced her lawyer husband on me like I was supposed to be impressed, though he wasn’t even around at the time of the original dispute.

both cases: IDGAF what your husband thinks, lady. What do YOU think?

lana
lana
7 years ago

If you notice what that woman (who needed to check with her husband ) was talking about ? Tearing down other women and how annoying they are for invading the poor men’s space.

She is critisizing other self loathers.Not even feminist .Those kind of women can’t stand other women .She is calling them annoying ,desperate,rude ,useless,unintelligent. NOT LIKE HER !

I have met a few of them by accident before I even heard of red pill or MRA. They tend to prefer men as friends (not all women that do are haters on women) .But they will explain why .Women are manipulative,women are drama queens,women are back stabbers,women are emotionally needy ,women don’t understand men ,women are self centered etc…

That’s it ! That’s where these alphas find their bitches .In the female women hating club.That would make for a lot of perfect matches .Matches made in hell!

CassandraSays
7 years ago

It’s a terrible idea, but the problem is, if someone actually wants to go play house with whatever their idea of a big strong male authority figure looks like, nobody has any right to stop them, and if you try they aren’t going to listen anyway. There are a few of them who set of my “this person is being abused” alarm bells, but there are also a lot of the more casual ones who seem to just be in love with this retro idea of what a relationship should look like, and in some cases it seems like it’s because they don’t want to have to manage their lives like normal grown-ups.

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

Auggz, I read somewhere once that sexist people seek each other out, and reinforce each other’s worst gender stereotypes in the process.

Might have been here. Wish I had saved the links.

Makes sense– birds of a feather and all.

I’m sure some redpill women are, or will be, relatively trapped, unless someone else is willing to lend them a hand to help them pull out of a bad relationship. My mom was totally financially dependent on my dad for 25 years– fortunately the kids were grown and her church and extended family could offer her help to get back on her feet when it all fell apart. Not everyone is so lucky.

But Sunshine is sufficiently well educated to leave… if she wanted to. I think she just has a crippling fear of being alone, and honestly no amount of education or resources can fix that.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

On the women who despise other women, the thing is, they’re just as fundamentally toxic in terms of personality as the MRA dudes are, so I can’t help feeling like maybe they deserve each other.

(Even though both halves of that kind of relationship will inevitably emerge from their breakup even nastier than they were before they met each other.)

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

“internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug” 😀

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

neuroticbeagle – d’you think your Furrinati (is the singular Furrinato?) is doing the Big Sad Beagle Eyes thing on your mum?

Of course! Except when she’s doing it on my stepdad who is more likely to give her something.

lana
lana
7 years ago

I’m sure some redpill women are, or will be, relatively trapped, unless someone else is willing to lend them a hand to help them pull out of a bad relationship. My mom was totally financially dependent on my dad for 25 years– fortunately the kids were grown and her church and extended family could offer her help to get back on her feet when it all fell apart. Not everyone is so lucky.

And that’s why the MRA would love to have divorce made very difficult to attain .And its why you hear them loathe that women have resources like abuse shelters and that the church has more divorce care for women than men.They want to make it HARDER for women to get away like your mother.

lana
lana
7 years ago

I was on a forum one time (more than one time actually LOL) and what I know recognize as “MRA” guys would warn of women even calling an abuse hotline . Because their “agenda” is to steer women towards divorce not get the couple help .

I’ve also seen them warn other men to keep an eye on what other women they are talking to.Because their friends are going to tell them you should go where your heart leads you ,you deserve to be happy etc. Like that’s wrong ?

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Abusive partner checklist, part 1 : attempts to isolate you from your friends/family/social network.

chimisaur
chimisaur
7 years ago

Good morning! looks like I missed a bit.

Oof, about that woman who has to ask her husband before bashing other women online: that dynamic, and the one that these red-pillers seem to be touting as desirable look a lot to me like some terrifying Goren fantasy crap. The potential for abuse there cannot be overstated, and while I acknowledge these misguided womens’ autonomy (not to mention obnoxiousness) I still can’t help but feel a touch sorry for them. That woman’s quote makes me really sad 🙁

On a lighter note, Lana, your Bengal is GORGEOUS! I was going to second the call for more pictures, but I see you have that covered (squeeeeeee!).

lana
lana
7 years ago

If you talk about the potential for abuse ? When the man is the ‘final authority” and the woman is to “submit ” ? Heads spin around like the exorcist. Power breeds corruption seems to not apply in marriage where one has most of it .

Then the argument is its not an imbalance of power or inequality .They are equal but just have different “roles.” …Right just like a slave master and a slave are “equal” (as in human beings ) just have different “roles.”

lana
lana
7 years ago

On a lighter note, Lana, your Bengal is GORGEOUS! I was going to second the call for more pictures, but I see you have that covered (squeeeeeee!).

Thanks Chimisaur !

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

Cassandra: yup! From my persepective now, my dad pulled a lot of classic abuse/control shit, like stir up big scenes at church, which seemed incomprehensible and strange at the time but in hindsight was probably an attempt to embarrass my mom into severing any kinds of ties she had outside the family, since she didn’t have a job or a social life outside church. When that didn’t work he accused her of having an affair with the pastor, on no evidence, which was really an absurd accusation for several reasons and nobody believed it for a second. But… she didn’t want to fight about it. Pastor could have done without that kind of drama, too. When she finally retreated home… he started making “subtle” references to the Laci Petersen case, how easy it would be to just pull something like that off. At which point she freaked out and disappeared into a women’s shelter with not much but the clothes on her back.

Turns out there was another woman on his end the entire time. I wouldn’t really have faulted him for just getting a divorce like a normal person and moving on; sometimes relationships run their course, sometimes people find a new partner before moving on from the old one, which isn’t maybe “right” or admirable but also isn’t unusual or a criminal.

But it was really, really, REALLY sick the way he did it, and what’s worse, I am pretty sure in MRA-land, it’s still my mom’s fault. ha If you ask him, of course, none of it is his fault. There is NOTHING he could have done any differently and he’s just the maligned victim of an ungrateful family. argh

lana
lana
7 years ago

Also that’s creepy. “Don’t call abuse hotlines, they might get you AWAY from your abuser! The horror!”

You should also hear some of their definition of abuse .There is no such thing as emotional abuse for one. Unless its lack of sex . That constitutes physical and emotional torture .

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

Anyway, for all that, my mom was really a very, very conservative woman. I wonder now what we’d have thought of each other if we’d been peers, if she’d had a blog or a twitter feed where she explained to other women how to do marriage The Right Way. ‘Cause as I recall, she had opinions on the subject. lol (She still has opinions, but… not the same ones. 😀 I’m pretty damn proud of her.)

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

ceebarks: Jeez, I’m sorry. Your dad sounds like a real piece of work. Is your mom ok now?

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Seconding auggz. “Hey, I could kill you and dump your body somewhere!” is not so much a red flag as it is a giant blinking Vegas-style neon sign reading RUN AWAY WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

Ally S
7 years ago

I was on a forum one time (more than one time actually LOL) and what I know recognize as “MRA” guys would warn of women even calling an abuse hotline . Because their “agenda” is to steer women towards divorce not get the couple help .

Ugh. That’s fucking awful.

[Content note: murder, death threats, abuse]

Also, my mom got a restraining order on my dad not because of any small personal issue they could solve via marital counseling, but because he threatened us (yes, my mom and her children) with murder and other forms of violent punishment and attempted to force us to be religious. And this was after several years of attempted rape, various physical assaults against my mom, and other things that I can’t clearly recall at this time. His violation of the restraining order was the last straw to her, and so then my mom divorced him.

I doubt any of that could have been solved/avoided via marital counseling – after all, it was only 2 years ago when he threatened to murder my mom, my step-dad, my step-brother, my sister’s boyfriend, and my brother’s ex-girlfriend.

lana
lana
7 years ago

Do ya’ll know how to contact David ? I need to ask him something in private .

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

Yeah, she’s doing great. Going to college, working, hobbying with her extracurricular club, hardly has time to talk to me anymore. lol Kind of wish they’d gotten divorced when I was a kid; she’s a kick in the pants now. He never seemed “that bad” when we were growing up, and you hate to break up a family that’s doing “ok” but I think she sacrificed huge chunks of her personality for a long time in the name of preserving the peace with his enormous ego.

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

You can reach him by email by clicking the big red head at the top right of the site. He also has his email address written underneath the head.

lana
lana
7 years ago

Ally that’s horrible ! I so glad ya’ll got away safe .(((HUGS)))

And no making divorce more difficult or mandatory counseling prior to would not have changed your dad .

lana
lana
7 years ago

Thanks Neuroticbeagle.

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

@Ally yeah, I think once you’ve seen that kind of shit go down IRL it’s infuriating to see a forum full of people who trot out “Marriage is sacred, work it out, submit harder! Churchianity is feminist, men are always benevolent and never abusive toward their property, frivorce is rampant and middle aged entitlement princess just want cash and prizes!”

I think the vast majority of women who divorce, especially after having kids, understand that it’s a ticket to a sharply reduced standard of living, to maybe never finding another spouse, sometimes even to homelessness!

But sometimes all those are better than the alternative you face. Which is being murdered, you MRassholes. ‘course, if for whatever reason you stay with a guy like that, it’s proof that women love bad boys.

I should probably go back to therapy. ha

cloudiah
7 years ago

Does anyone need a puppy?

Sorry for all the terrible abuse, and hugs for anyone who wants one.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Allowing a bully to have their way doesn’t make them nicer in any other context, so it’s kind of ridiculous that people think doing just that is the best way to fix a marriage that isn’t working.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Kittehserf: I’m pretty sure the singular form of Furrinati is “Furrinatus”, which, of course, is Latin for “Why aren’t you scritching my ears yet?”

I <3 this. It should be written in big shiny gold letters on a mountainside somewhere.

Ugh, I hate the argument that you have to “try” to fix your relationship before wanting to leave it. Seriously, you can leave your relationship whenever you want. You should be able to. Telling someone they have to try to fix it instead of getting a divorce is basically saying that the relationship(healthy or not) is more important than not risking someone’s safety, or even happiness.

Even if it’s not a question of an abusive relationship, it plays into the myth that relationships are inevitably Hard Work, doesn’t it?

I wonder where that idea sprang from? It’s almost like the ole Protestant work ethic is creeping in to say that if relationship’s easy or enjoyable or not feckin’ drudgery, then it must be bad, or you’re not doing it right. /ass speculation

lana
lana
7 years ago

I agree Ceebarks ,

The total lie that all these women getting divorced are somehow making a profit ?While the men are living in a gutter ?

All you have to do is a quick google search to find out how absurdly ridiculous that is .And the fact is more women end up on poverty (with children) post divorce than men.

What it is is they are rage filled because she had the nerve to leave him at all and she deserved to die .So if she manages to have a reasonable standard of living that’s not fair .That gets twisted to he supports her for the rest of her life. In fact they are doing away lifetime alimony in some of the states that had it .Alimony in most states has strict qualifiers and its temporary. In the state I live in you have to have been married 10 years and show that you can not reasonably support your self /he has to have a higher income than yours and its a maximum of 3 years .

chimisaur
chimisaur
7 years ago

*nodnod* I feel like divorce saves a heck of a lot more families than “sticking with it” ever did; hell, there was not much physically bad going on between my parents, at least, but they *did* make one another horribly unhappy and I feel I was brought up better for having two happy parents after the age of 6 or so. My FiL was one of those slow-burn red-pillers, and as soon as he started showing signs of that particular kind of crazy my MiL got out, thank god, and it did wonders for the well being of my partner, although hir sister had already moved out and had some problems with some of the childhood experience she had had with the crazy man. My mother in law is still a very conservative “men should be decision makers and women should be meek” kind of lady, which I can’t entirely agree with, but I do respect that she has a definite idea of what standard of treatment is acceptable for herself and other women.

I’m sorry anyone has ever had to live through any of that crazy parent threat/abuse crap. *Hugs*

kittehserf
7 years ago

lana, your kitty is gooorrgeousssss. That is all.

ceebarks
ceebarks
7 years ago

It’s really creepy how society thinks that people getting the option to not spend the rest of their lives with someone is somehow a terrible thing. Being able to pick who you’re around is a very basic right for everyone.

Compulsory heterosexuality FTL!

dang, I need to take a break from this misogynistic junk for awhile. It makes me start to get paranoid and twitchy at my husband, who doesn’t believe in any of this stuff and has never been anything but patient and kind to me– but I guess he’s the nearest adult male so there’s some kind of fucked up emotional/mental transfer going on there. REALLY unhealthy. ugh.

Puppies and kitties and brain bleach and therapy for all who seek it, and a happy new year! ho ho ho!

kittehserf
7 years ago

Virtual hugs, ceebarks, with extra Furrinati.

lana
lana
7 years ago

Thanks Kitteh! (and hes a pain in the ass (Kato no Toki)..no lie)

The other thing on this marriage should be a gruesome sacrifice .The idea they promote getting married very young .(So as to be able to have frequent regular sex while the testosterone is peaking at its most ragefull time) When that just increases the odds that you WILL be miserable and end up divorced ?

augochlorella
7 years ago

I wonder where that idea sprang from? It’s almost like the ole Protestant work ethic is creeping in to say that if relationship’s easy or enjoyable or not feckin’ drudgery, then it must be bad, or you’re not doing it right. /ass speculation

Back in the early days of my relationship there were moments when I actually did wonder if we were doing something wrong because everything seemed so easy. People would ask us things like, “How did you settle your last fight?” and I’d be like, “We’ve never fought???” People make it sound like it’s so inevitable that you won’t get along. Luckily I didn’t dwell on it too much, and the relationship is still awesome.

I feel like divorce saves a heck of a lot more families than “sticking with it” ever did…

Yes yes yes yes. Even with all the emotional and financial fallout of my parent’s divorce, I would never want to go back to a time when they were together.

It gets on my nerves when people talk about the divorce rate like it’s some society-ending catastrophe. My parents didn’t commit a mortal sin by divorcing. The problem was not that they ended their relationship – it’s that they never should have been together in the first place. And if you gave me a couple thousand words or so, I could list out exactly which patriarchal notions about marriage got them into the whole mess.

lana
lana
7 years ago

It makes me start to get paranoid and twitchy at my husband, who doesn’t believe in any of this stuff and has never been anything but patient and kind to me– but I guess he’s the nearest adult male so there’s some kind of fucked up emotional/mental transfer going on there. REALLY unhealthy. ugh.

I used to react like that . My husband would say something and I would be like …your a MISOGYNIST !

Well my husband and I have had a lot of ups and downs and some serious too where many would have called it quits .(both our ends) …but he is NOT a misogynist . Hes a little control freakish as he has aged (but with everything not lording over me) but he is at root more a beta type guy .

I have told him about these MRA guys and he’s like ..sounds like a bunch of bitter men sitting around whining .My husband wouldn’t waste his time (he likes idling NOT) even mocking them like I am ..LOL!!!

He could have used me as an excuse to hate all women .But he has some ability to see his own faults that’s the difference.

lana
lana
7 years ago

Yes yes yes yes. Even with all the emotional and financial fallout of my parent’s divorce, I would never want to go back to a time when they were together.

The MRA would tell you that you are the exception .There is some data to back that up I think. BUT one paper I read said the problem with divorce is not ending the relationship.Its that leading up to right before /during /and after the fighting escalates and people don’t consider the children like they should .YEARS later the parents are still hating each other.That it the traumatic part.It sticks in the kids memory the “divorce” was traumatizing.No it was how the parents acted that was .

CassandraSays
7 years ago

In all seriousness, why is a rising divorce rate a bad thing? Given that in the past it was rather difficult to divorce, maybe the rates we’re seeing now aren’t a sign that something has gone wrong, they’re just a reflection of what would have happened all along if circumstances hadn’t forced couples to stay together and be miserable with each other.

lana
lana
7 years ago

Cass I had the exact same thought a few days ago when I was looking up divorce statistics.

That’s why the MRA wants to go back to 1950 .(laws and all) Because its women filing 70% of the time .Women have more freedom than in 1950 = more divorced men. There is still something about marriage that overall benefits men more than women I suspect.

feintone
7 years ago

I’m sure most of these men won’t be happy until marriage is restored to what they would call its “proper state”
this “proper state” being where wives are literally the property of their husbands.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

The fact that stats keep showing that men are happier married and women are happier single, in general, is part of what makes the whole MGTOW thing so lulzy.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

“In all seriousness, why is a rising divorce rate a bad thing? Given that in the past it was rather difficult to divorce, maybe the rates we’re seeing now aren’t a sign that something has gone wrong, they’re just a reflection of what would have happened all along if circumstances hadn’t forced couples to stay together and be miserable with each other.”

Yes! Major seconding of that! The same thing with couples who live together before they get married. IIRC, there was this big to-do about how cohabitating (real word?) couples are more likely to break-up. Isn’t that a good thing? I mean if two people try living together and figure out it isn’t going to work, isn’t it better they figure that out before making it all official? And plus, why is the whole idea of traditional marriage the be-all and end-all of relationships and something that everyone must aspire to?

I’m glad my parents divorced. I think it was the best thing for all involved; and it hasn’t caused me or my brother any huge trauma. In fact, it benefitted us as much as it did my mom and dad. It’s not great for kids when your parents don’t want to be with each other, even if the parents try to hide it. Kids can pick up on that tension. I actually remember being relieved when my mom told me she and dad were getting a divorce.

And I’ve found my husband is a perfect antidote to misogyny. He loves and respects me and is a great father. I love my “beta” husband 🙂

chimisaur
chimisaur
7 years ago

Well, considering that stats still say women do a majority of the housework and childcare, regardless of the employment situation, I would say it’s pretty obvious that men enjoy more overall benefits from a marriage. To paraphrase that lady who’s name I’m blanking on (embarrassing): someone to cook, clean and take care of my spawn? Who the heck wouldn’t want a wife?!

augochlorella
7 years ago

Its that leading up to right before /during /and after the fighting escalates and people don’t consider the children like they should.

That pretty neatly sums up how I feel about the divorce. Maybe I’m generalizing my own experiences too much. With my parents, the farther away they were from each other, the better it was for my siblings and I.

It actually surprises me that most children of divorced parents wish their parents were back together. I’m probably pulling too much from my own experiences again, but for me, imagining my parents in a happy relationship together means imagining people who aren’t really my parents.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

The idea that if couples break up after cohabiting rather than getting married that’s a bad thing is even dumber. Divorce is a pain in the ass. Paperwork, lawyers, blah blah. If things aren’t going to work out then it’s better for that to become clear before things get to the stage where you need to hire lawyers to manage the breakup.

I just don’t get the desire to keep people in relationships that are making them miserable.

lana
lana
7 years ago

I mean if two people try living together and figure out it isn’t going to work, isn’t it better they figure that out before making it all official?

Sparky I know I’m not citing sources but to my memory as of recent some stats suggest its living together before you are married increases odds of divorce later. But I doubt its as simple as “living together .”

One thought comes to mind .Believe is or not some people still think if they aren’t getting a along getting married will fix it .(roll eyes) .

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Ally S: I know other people have said this, but your father is a complete and awful asshole. I’m sorry 🙁

Chihuahua cuddles for anyone who needs them:


http://i.imgur.com/EgDL2Yr.jpg

CassandraSays
7 years ago

Also, the kind of people who don’t see divorce as an option tend to overlap with the kind of people who think that living together if you’re not married is a dirty evil sin.