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Men’s Rights Redditor explains the mate choice process of the human female, and also why she won’t pay for dinner

Stick-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.
Stuck-up females waiting for men to bring them dead animals for dinner.

So over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the fellas are doing their best to address the burning Men’s Right issue of “date inequality,” or, as one recent poster put the question,“Hey feminists. How come men are still expected to pay for dates?”

I’m pretty sure that feminists aren’t the ones expecting men to pay for dates, so I’m not sure why feminists should be held to account for something they’re not doing, but in any case, the Men’s Rightsers don’t seem much interested in hearing explanations from feminists. No, they’re rather offer their own theories.

Enter a new convert to Men’s Rightsism called MrKocha, who enlists the aid of SCIENCE to offer his own explanation of this terrible date injustice:

I see a lot of problems with every day inequality between the sexes in mate interaction in various areas.

Attention, human female. Initiating mate interaction protocol.

First being, the average female has vastly different motivations in her mate selection. How much is nature vs nurture is up for debate, but I tend towards believing millions of years of evolution probably have left a significant mark there.

Huh. What are the odds that these millions of years of evolution just happen to line up with whatever regressive assertions about women — sorry, females — this dude is about to make?

Anyway her mate choice process often involves looking for signs of genetic fitness in male (attractive appearance, displayed dominance socially or physically, risk taking, higher social status), and weighing this against his ability to invest in her long term future: such as pay her dinner/bills). Paying for dinner displays two things: one a willingness to self sacrifice for women, and two the financial resources to continue to do so.

Let’s see. Human beings for the majority of their existence on this planet were hunters and gatherers. Even if we assume that men mainly did the hunting and women mainly did the gathering, the gathered food made up the bulk of the diet. So really, men on dates should expect women to bring them large salads in return for the carcass of a small mammal.

The second part of the problem is women also have a significantly stronger in group bias, to the point where considering points of view don’t immediately benefit females is actively more difficult.

Uh, I think you accidentally the sentence there.

The process of asking women to merely consider in the name of equality, whether there are social solutions to reduce inequalities between the sexes in mate selection scenarios commonly triggers a strong negative emotional response, that her ‘turf’ is under attack and whoever presents such a question is a threat.

Really? Lots of women have no fucking problem whatsoever with paying for dinner.

How women deal with this varies tremendously. Some experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance, denial, and explain away inequalities with whatever rationalization provides the most reassuring emotional responses.

Wait, are we talking about women or about MRAs now?

Some project their outgroup hatred upon whoever voices the opinion by attacking the individual with petty, poorly thought out attacks on their character.

He must be talking about MRAs, right?

Others, immediately jump miles past the idea of social equality being a noble (if potentially impossible goal), to the issue of consent, making accusations that somehow even considering the idea of more equality in gender relations is an attempt to violate consent of female mate choice? (MY CHOICE! DISCUSSION IS RAPEFUL!)

Um, how did we get from talking about dinner to talking about rape? Is he really suggesting that women have literally accused him of rape because he suggested they pay for their own dinner?

And finally, there do seem to a minority of women who are able to consider the issue rationally, even if it admittedly, challenges her immediate self interests and might be harder than other subjects to think about?

Wow, some women — albeit a minority — somehow manage not to be spiteful, narcissistic children! What a generous assessment of half the human race.

How to tackle the issue, when women potentially have 4 times the amount of in group preference, reinforced by feminist doctrine and a potential biological preference towards the behavior?

How is “getting dudes to pay for dinner” part of feminist doctrine exactly? I’m pretty sure The Rules isn’t a feminist manifesto.

All I can say is to continue to challenge any social doctrine that reinforces in group bias of women and praise women when they display the ability to think outside the spectrum of their immediate self interest even if ultimately there isn’t much other benefit to you?

Who’s a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of her immediate self-interest? You’re a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of your immediate self-interest!

Always try to keep in mind, that the negative responses, are basically a reflection of why the question is a valid one in the first place.

Exactly. Whenever women recoil in horror at some astoundingly misogynistic thing you’ve said, that just means you’re totally right!

In a followup comment, MrKocha returns to the notion that women love throwing around rape accusations, not only at men who argue with them about paying for dinner but at “sexually inexperienced men” generally. It’s bad enough that women aren’t attracted to these men, he argues, but

the amount of shame, condescension and hostility thrown their way is quite impressive.

It can range anywhere from rape accusations to golden ones like “I hope you never find someone and stay alone forever!”

Fun fact: each and every man on the planet earth, no matter how sexually experienced, was once a virgin. Somehow most of them managed to garner themselves a certain amount of sexual experience without being accused of rape and/or having women express the opinion that they should remain alone forever.

Assuming that McKocha is speaking from experience here, and assuming also (because I’m already disturbed enough by his comments) that the bit about the rape accusations is internet hyperbole, what exactly is causing all these women to get so angry at him?

I don’t think it’s the sexual inexperience. I think that maybe, possibly, it might be the fact that he obviously hates women?

Just a wild guess.

MrKocha started up a whole thread of his own to further discuss his scientific hypotheses about the human female and her mate choices. It’s called Females Oppressing Female Mate Choice. Because these evil females who put down sexually inexperienced men are also oppressing females who might choose to mate with these men!

Thanks to AgainstMensRights for clueing me in to the wonderfulness of MrKocha — here and here.

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pecunium
7 years ago

auggzillary: Of course diz takes it seriously… this is THE civil rights movement of the 21st century.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I mean really, not getting a mate is as bad as being murdered!

In equally hilarious things, my brother got the new xbox. It’s very finicky, we’re not allowed to say “the x word” because it never seems to know what’s a command and what isn’t.

serrana
serrana
7 years ago

The first rule of the xbox is…

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Not yelling XBOX TURN OFF. Also out — Xbox go home (yes that’s seriously a command). And sinc it’s fucking dumb — Xbox fuck off is also banned (and anything else using the dreaded x word)

As our mother put it, this is the funniest he’s been in ages. How can you not laugh at someone saying “Xbox turn off” a half dozen times in increasingly frustrated tones? (Does the thing not have a power button?)

kittehserf
7 years ago

That sounds like a real-life version of a scene from The Games – John Clarke trying to imitate Gina Riley’s voice to get her voice-recognition computer to turn on. 😀

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Oh, right! I remember diz now. That’s the person who valorized Toy Soldier and then mysteriously disappeared when I remarked that he seemed totally okay with mocking ME, a male rape survivor he’d never met, for getting grilled on my rape experience.

Yeah, diz, you sure seem authentic.

diz
diz
7 years ago

I don’t remember you or your post. I try not to spend to much time reading what you guys have to say.

Anyway, the guy in the OP stated that he has a mental handicap, on the autistic spectrum I believe. So, add ableist to Dave’s growing list of “quirks.”

Also, Dave never did actually admit that female on male rape is actually rape. He just kind of backed away from the discussion after MRA’s and feminists alike started sodomizing him over it.

kittehserf
7 years ago

For someone complaining about Dave not admitting female on male is rape (he did, btw, you moron – you want to criticise, try READING his words) you seem very quick to use a term like “sodomising”.

Even if the fucker who Dave’s quoting here is on the autism spectrum, since when is that an excuse for being a misogynist, or any other sort of bigot? Are you implying bigotry derives from disabilities, or that bigots who happen to have a disability get a free pass? Sounds like you’re the one being ableist here.

Ally S
7 years ago

Anyway, the guy in the OP stated that he has a mental handicap, on the autistic spectrum I believe. So, add ableist to Dave’s growing list of “quirks.”

David didn’t mock MrKocha for having mental disabilities. He only pointed out the silliness of MrKocha’s arguments – he didn’t even call MrKocha dumb, stupid, etc. And while it’s true that MrKocha states elsewhere that he has some mental disabilities, that fact about him isn’t indicated anywhere in the threads David linked to. So it’s entirely possible that David didn’t know.

Also, Dave never did actually admit that female on male rape is actually rape. He just kind of backed away from the discussion after MRA’s and feminists alike started sodomizing him over it.

Maybe you should have paid more attention to what happened in that thread, then, because he clearly changed his position. He didn’t back away from any discussion.

Also, using the word “sodomizing” to describe something negative? I think I know who the real asshole is here. Fuck off.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

1) Nothing says “I am an advocate of rape victims” like using “sodomized” to mean “argued with” 2) ASD doesn’t force people to be bigots and it’s really gross to pretend it does 3) fuck off, you little jerk.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Not to mention that using the word that way says “homophobic gobshite” about the user, too.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
7 years ago

I don’t remember you or your post. I try not to spend to much time reading what you guys have to say.

“What?!? You think I should engage with the world outside my mom’s basement? No way, I just come here to pee in the corner.”

Also, Dave never did actually admit that female on male rape is actually rape. He just kind of backed away from the discussion after MRA’s and feminists alike started sodomizing him over it.

Aaaaannnnnd, no. What David actually did was engage with people who disagreed with him, examine his assumptions and their impact on others and make a decision to reconcile his behavior with that impact. You know, that thing that adults do. Learn. Grow.

But, hey. Stay classy, diz.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Heck yeah it does.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Oops, sorry, that should have been addressed to Kittehs.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Curious, isn’t it, how ToySoldier and his little buddy here don’t actually give a shit about male rape victims – when it’s not attacking someone who’s been raped by another man (witness LBT) it’s using the language of rape and homophobia as abuse.

Yup, classy indeed.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Someone’s trying to use ASD as an excuse to be a fucking asshole?

ALLTHEFUCKINGRAGE.

I don’t care if you have ASD. I have ASD. I also know that it’s not a “get out of jerkass” card. Pretending that it does pushes the idea that people with ASD are unempathetic shitheads, which is totally not true. Go step on Legos.

kittehserf
7 years ago

It’s the real double-whammy, isn’t it? Gives them the excuse to heap shit on people with disabilities (like calling women crazy, or trying to target women they see as having mental illnesses) and gives them the let-out for their own disgusting behaviour because they’re awwwwkwaaarrrrd and on the spectrum and it’s not faaaaairrrrr that b1tches turn them down, amirite?

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Ob mai gawd, that’s why them bitches won’t look at me! Cause I’m a motherfucking special snowflake! But I’m like Sheldon, see? I’m UBER FUCKING SMART, and totally anti-social! And I know this cause I looked it up on Wiki-fucking-pedia five minutes ago!

Seriously. This kind of shit is the reason why ASD looks bad: because of jerkwads using it as an excuse for their own behavior. Sorry, nope, still your fault that you’re a misogynistic jackass.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Yup. It’s like the fuckwits who do all this shit at SF or atheist conventions – “oh you are being cruel to the poooor ASD menz!” It’s probably not ASD guys who are the ones being predatory shitbags (or just generalised shitbags), given the majority of people there presumably aren’t on the spectrum at all, and if someone on the spectrum is … tough fucking shit, it’s not an excuse for that behaviour!

Plus of course nothing’s ever said about anyone except cis het dudes. Nothing’s ever said by these scumbags about other people on the spectrum, the ones likely to be harassed, not be harassers.

Ally S
7 years ago

I’m pretty sure that Toy Soldier has also used rape-y language like diz. Compassion for men and boys indeed.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Tbf I’m not sure if MrKocha claims that we can’t criticize his misogyny because he has ASD, or if he simply mentioned that he was on the spectrum and it’s diz who is connecting that to his misogyny. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to dig into MrKocha’s reddit history and… nope. Not doing that.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

The ASD = get out of jerkass free thing is like a beserk button. I hate it when people do that. We’re not all jerks. Gah.

It just makes me rage. That and using autistic as an insult. Fuck you asshole.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

The thing about the argument that the reason men harass women at cons is because the men are on the spectrum is, the same people who make that argument also throw a fit about the idea of cons implementing clear rules about harassment. And what’s one of the biggest stereotypes about people on the spectrum? That they’re good at following rules, as long as the rules are made clear to them. So if it was really a matter of confused men who’re on the spectrum not understanding what is and isn’t OK, then the rules would be welcomed as helpful.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Rules are misandry!

Expecting men to not harass women is misandry!

How will PADs (poor awkward dudes) ever be able to get teh secks if they’re not allowed to harass women?

CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’m curious about how often harassment results in sex, because in my experience it mostly results in stink-eye and/or swearing.

Ally S
7 years ago

Women have boundaries, like all other human beings. The horror!

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

I’ve been harassed by a lot of dudes who seemed pretty delighted that it made me uncomfortable, so I’m not convinced that sex is always the goal.

Ally S
7 years ago

I’ve been harassed by a lot of dudes who seemed pretty delighted that it made me uncomfortable, so I’m not convinced that sex is always the goal.

I can relate. All of the people who harassed me when I was younger did it to make me feel uncomfortable and scared. And many of them got a laugh out of it.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Viscaria – good point. The little harassment I’ve received wasn’t about sex. I was thinking more about the sort of excuses the PADs offer for their behaviour. It’s more a power thing, but they’re not going to admit that. “Hey, I get a boner from making women uncomfortable or frightened, how dare you interfere with my rights!”

diz
diz
7 years ago

I used sodomy because I knew you guys would flip over it. You guys are too funny when you get riled up as a group.

Bostonian
Bostonian
7 years ago

Oh wow, MRA hates male tape victims, such a shock!

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Oh, you made a casual homophobic rape metaphor because it would bother us! Well that’s much better then. Credibility as an ally to rape survivors: RESTORED.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

I try not to spend to much time reading what you guys have to say.

Translation: “My reading comprehension sucks, and I can’t be arsed to do shit about it, but I do in fact obsess over everything I see here, and do my best to get it bass-ackwards.”

Like I said: Stupidity. NOT a disability. Park elsewhere.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Okay, diz, if you care about rape victims, as you claim, and about Dave (allegedly) being ableist, what’s up with using terms about rape to try to upset people – some of whom are rape survivors? You do know you’ve only succeeded in arousing contempt, and making yourself look like a pathetic little shit.

vaiyt
7 years ago

There’s no functional difference between a jackass, and someone who acts exactly like a jackass for shits and giggles.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

I used sodomy because I knew you guys would flip over it. You guys are too funny when you get riled up as a group.

Oh honey, you sure do lack reading comprehension. I’m not riled in the least. Just because you’re a fuck-ass, doesn’t mean I get all girly and flustered. You think you’re the first shit-stain to come in here trying to harass people? Hell, you’re not even the first turd I’ve wiped off my cherry Docs.

Ally S
7 years ago

I used sodomy because I knew you guys would flip over it. You guys are too funny when you get riled up as a group.

No shit it riled us up. It made me very upset, and I’m not even a victim of forced sodomy (or any kind of rape for that matter). That kind of language is disgusting. And we have folks here who were raped, some of whom are male.

The fact that you found our reactions funny should have prompted you to consider whether you were being an asshole, but nope – you just thought it was funny. Go pat yourself on the back. (And fuck off, too.)

Ally S
7 years ago

Sorry, I didn’t mean to speak for everyone when I said “it riled us up”, but clearly none of us reacted to it positively at least.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

I was riled all sorts of up.

kittehserf
7 years ago

No need to apologise, Ally. Anyway I daresay the flea’s leavings doesn’t know the difference between someone being riled and someone feeling contempt.

Hell, you’re not even the first turd I’ve wiped off my cherry Docs.

SHOES! More interesting than trolls any day.

I wish I could wear Docs, but the one pair I’ve had felt like they were lined with razor blades; I’ve never had my feet cut open by any other shoes.

I went to put on my new Converse boots this morning and they’d turned from burgundy leather to grey fur, like fluffy slippers. This is what happens when a cat with a thing for shoes gets hold of rough-surfaced leather.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

What kind of sad loser trolls on Thanksgiving?

BTW, everyone, happy Turkey Day! Or in my case happy roast pork day.

(Mr C is doing the roast so I’m just waiting for it to be done for now.)

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
7 years ago

I used sodomy because I knew you guys would flip over it. You guys are too funny when you get riled up as a group.

See, this is why I want a demographic investigation of MRAs. I’m convinced that there are a few who are older and divorced and bitter. The rest are 9 year old boys like dizzie here.

Dude, no one here flipped. At best there are a few who are annoyed that you made a mess on the carpet, but even they most likely expected you to do so. And, as a$$holes go, you’re pretty weak sauce. The worst you did was give folks a headache from rolling our eyes so vigorously at your completely obvious and ham fisted attempts at provocation. Get over yourself. Besides, isn’t it past your bedtime? Have your mom tuck you in, you are getting cranky.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
7 years ago

Apologies to Ally and Viscaria if I minimized your feelings there. Not at all my intention, and I apologize.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Aw well I didn’t feel minimized at all 🙂 though I can’t speak for Ally. We all had different reactions I think, which is okay. I think the takeaway is that diz will gleefully throw rape victims under the bus if he thinks he’ll get some giggles out of it.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Nine years old sounds about right.

Bina
Bina
7 years ago

Ditz is a rape apologist. ¡Qué sorpresa! They all are. Their “compassion” is all pretend. And it gets conveniently misplaced when one of these shit-stains goes “Hey guys, I’m gonna go poke some feminists. Watch this!”

kittehserf
7 years ago

¡Qué sorpresa!

Or kel horrer as they used to say in the Perishers (memory test for really old Brits and Ozites).

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Alice

We’re not all jerks. Gah.

Nope! A lot of the multis I know are also on the spectrum. Shockingly enough, none of them have ever treated me like an object or created elaborate bullshit about paying for dinner.

Also, as someone disabled myself (though for different reasons)… just because I’m mentally ill doesn’t mean you can’t call me out on being an asshole. I mean, what the fuck? Why would I hide behind my own sickness like that?

RE: diz

I used sodomy because I knew you guys would flip over it.

This male rape survivor sure does appreciate that. Asshole. (Seriously, what do you THINK happened to me?) Yup, you sure do care about my feelings and my safety. Fuck off, pissant, and take your pearl-clutching self-righteousness with you.

And I actually am a bit upset, but diz is only a part of that. I know I keep hammering this home, but this is EXACTLY why I don’t believe these guys when they say they care about people like me. Diz was obviously way more invested in saying gotcha to feminists than actually considering my feelings about anything.

Gee, it’s almost like male rape victims are only fodder for their theories, rather than actual human beings!

kittehserf
7 years ago

LBT – that’s exactly what raised my eyebrows about diz coming on here, once it was mentioned he’s a ToySoldier fanboy – knowing how TS has abused you wipes out any of their claims to be supporting male rape survivors.

You’re not hammering it: it needs to be said.

Ally S
7 years ago

I appreciate it, gillyrosebee. ^_^ This stuff almost never fails to make me upset.