So over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the fellas are doing their best to address the burning Men’s Right issue of “date inequality,” or, as one recent poster put the question,“Hey feminists. How come men are still expected to pay for dates?”
I’m pretty sure that feminists aren’t the ones expecting men to pay for dates, so I’m not sure why feminists should be held to account for something they’re not doing, but in any case, the Men’s Rightsers don’t seem much interested in hearing explanations from feminists. No, they’re rather offer their own theories.
Enter a new convert to Men’s Rightsism called MrKocha, who enlists the aid of SCIENCE to offer his own explanation of this terrible date injustice:
I see a lot of problems with every day inequality between the sexes in mate interaction in various areas.
Attention, human female. Initiating mate interaction protocol.
First being, the average female has vastly different motivations in her mate selection. How much is nature vs nurture is up for debate, but I tend towards believing millions of years of evolution probably have left a significant mark there.
Huh. What are the odds that these millions of years of evolution just happen to line up with whatever regressive assertions about women — sorry, females — this dude is about to make?
Anyway her mate choice process often involves looking for signs of genetic fitness in male (attractive appearance, displayed dominance socially or physically, risk taking, higher social status), and weighing this against his ability to invest in her long term future: such as pay her dinner/bills). Paying for dinner displays two things: one a willingness to self sacrifice for women, and two the financial resources to continue to do so.
Let’s see. Human beings for the majority of their existence on this planet were hunters and gatherers. Even if we assume that men mainly did the hunting and women mainly did the gathering, the gathered food made up the bulk of the diet. So really, men on dates should expect women to bring them large salads in return for the carcass of a small mammal.
The second part of the problem is women also have a significantly stronger in group bias, to the point where considering points of view don’t immediately benefit females is actively more difficult.
Uh, I think you accidentally the sentence there.
The process of asking women to merely consider in the name of equality, whether there are social solutions to reduce inequalities between the sexes in mate selection scenarios commonly triggers a strong negative emotional response, that her ‘turf’ is under attack and whoever presents such a question is a threat.
Really? Lots of women have no fucking problem whatsoever with paying for dinner.
How women deal with this varies tremendously. Some experience a great deal of cognitive dissonance, denial, and explain away inequalities with whatever rationalization provides the most reassuring emotional responses.
Wait, are we talking about women or about MRAs now?
Some project their outgroup hatred upon whoever voices the opinion by attacking the individual with petty, poorly thought out attacks on their character.
He must be talking about MRAs, right?
Others, immediately jump miles past the idea of social equality being a noble (if potentially impossible goal), to the issue of consent, making accusations that somehow even considering the idea of more equality in gender relations is an attempt to violate consent of female mate choice? (MY CHOICE! DISCUSSION IS RAPEFUL!)
Um, how did we get from talking about dinner to talking about rape? Is he really suggesting that women have literally accused him of rape because he suggested they pay for their own dinner?
And finally, there do seem to a minority of women who are able to consider the issue rationally, even if it admittedly, challenges her immediate self interests and might be harder than other subjects to think about?
Wow, some women — albeit a minority — somehow manage not to be spiteful, narcissistic children! What a generous assessment of half the human race.
How to tackle the issue, when women potentially have 4 times the amount of in group preference, reinforced by feminist doctrine and a potential biological preference towards the behavior?
How is “getting dudes to pay for dinner” part of feminist doctrine exactly? I’m pretty sure The Rules isn’t a feminist manifesto.
All I can say is to continue to challenge any social doctrine that reinforces in group bias of women and praise women when they display the ability to think outside the spectrum of their immediate self interest even if ultimately there isn’t much other benefit to you?
Who’s a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of her immediate self-interest? You’re a good woman for thinking outside the spectrum of your immediate self-interest!
Always try to keep in mind, that the negative responses, are basically a reflection of why the question is a valid one in the first place.
Exactly. Whenever women recoil in horror at some astoundingly misogynistic thing you’ve said, that just means you’re totally right!
In a followup comment, MrKocha returns to the notion that women love throwing around rape accusations, not only at men who argue with them about paying for dinner but at “sexually inexperienced men” generally. It’s bad enough that women aren’t attracted to these men, he argues, but
the amount of shame, condescension and hostility thrown their way is quite impressive.
It can range anywhere from rape accusations to golden ones like “I hope you never find someone and stay alone forever!”
Fun fact: each and every man on the planet earth, no matter how sexually experienced, was once a virgin. Somehow most of them managed to garner themselves a certain amount of sexual experience without being accused of rape and/or having women express the opinion that they should remain alone forever.
Assuming that McKocha is speaking from experience here, and assuming also (because I’m already disturbed enough by his comments) that the bit about the rape accusations is internet hyperbole, what exactly is causing all these women to get so angry at him?
I don’t think it’s the sexual inexperience. I think that maybe, possibly, it might be the fact that he obviously hates women?
Just a wild guess.
MrKocha started up a whole thread of his own to further discuss his scientific hypotheses about the human female and her mate choices. It’s called Females Oppressing Female Mate Choice. Because these evil females who put down sexually inexperienced men are also oppressing females who might choose to mate with these men!
Thanks to AgainstMensRights for clueing me in to the wonderfulness of MrKocha — here and here.
Fibinachi :Or maybe MRA’s are just sometimes bad at dates.
Exactly .Or it could be they are Betas and the women’s “strategy” is to suck off the wallet of the Betas (nice guys)for free dinner put him in the “friend zone” until an Alpha comes along and what ? Demands she pay for dinner and that she lay him ?
Whatever happened to coffee dates or catching a free concert if you live in a city? I think small towns can be a little more challenging to find a choice of good venues, bit I’d advise stating away from the dinner and movie for a few dates. First you have dinner, which is an hour of pressure to keep a reasonable conversation going and then two hours of largely ignoring each other on favor of the movie. Why do that to yourself?
Is it even a safe place for men? Or is it just a “safe space” for misogynistic white cis* straight non-rape surviving men? And safe from what? Criticism for your hateful views, being called a bigot, and being called a creep?
Yeah, that’s TOTES what “safe space” means.
I lost my eyeballs again.
No, I think they’re just bad at dates, because they assume they’re bidding time and ressources for a body they want to masturbate into later on, as opposed to spending time with a person they want to get to know.
The problem isn’t really the dates, the problem is everything that leads there. Even if every woman was sucking off the wallet of a beta nice guy in the friendzone until some alpha came along, why on Earth are all these beta nice guys giving access to their wallets in the first place, if not because they think that’s the way they’ll get some action?
It’s a catch 22. If a guy thinks getting a girl involves spending money on the girl, he will spend money on the girl. But if the girl accepts, then she’s a gold digging girl, and if she declines, then it’s just because the guy isn’t “alpha” enough or “rich” enough or something.
What made the guy think the girl was interested in money in the first place? Some misconcieved idea that all she cares about is zeroes on bank account? Why, it’s almost as if someone who thought half the human race had no more motivator than stacks of dollars have really shitty ideas about half the human race, and wouldn’t be worth sleeping with in the first place. God yes, will I not sleep with this person, nor spend any time with him, nor care about him at all. Why should I?
He thinks dating involves a bidding war for my nether bits for crying out loud.
The moment someone came along and wanted me to cook dinner for him I would be all over that so quickly the speed of light would be like“Woah, Fibi, slow down there for a second, you just collided with so many photons you collapsed the local wave function and accidentally caused a nuclear explosion because of the atomic friction”.
The kind of person who complains about the “friendzone” is exactly the kind of person who has a need of a concept like the friendzone.
Another master of satire makes the world a better place.
I love all his imaginary female fans. I can’t decide which is my favorite between “women are all the same and exactly like you describe”, “feminism is brainwashing women with ‘pretty lies'” and “it’s so hard to find a place on the internet where white men are free to express themselves without oppressive PC censorship, God Bless you”.
I must write and thank him personally for his groundbreaking “10 Tell-Tale Signs She’s a Secret Internet Fatty”, because Secret Internet Fatty is a great band name.
Since when is “overeducated” a broadly negative trait? Does the act of learning counter-intuitively make you somehow less qualified to speak on topics? As always, this stuff reminds me of conspiracy theory rhetoric where sources become inversely relevant based on their authority on the subject.
Before discovering Manboobz I even didn’t know people used terms like “mate interaction” and “mate choosing” to describe dating rather than, say, how to get Zoo Pandas to successfully reproduce. I blame my liberal arts education.
auggz: South and SE Asian women also get included in the ‘traditionally feminine’ stereotype along with white women. Not that it makes it any less racist, of course–it’s like a sundae made of seven different flavors of shit.
Fibinachi :What made the guy think the girl was interested in money in the first place? END
Um..maybe because he knows he has little to offer other wise ? So she must be a gold digger for some free food ?
Sensitive is a bad thing? Yeah, well, for idiots clinging to toxic masculinity, I guess it is. Losers.
<..>
Don’t tell anyone, but … I think you’re onto something here.
Quote:Before discovering Manboobz I even didn’t know people used terms like “mate interaction” and “mate choosing” to describe dating rather than, say, how to get Zoo Pandas to successfully reproduce. I blame my liberal arts education END
Because didn’t you know its all about “game?”
Didn’t you know male humans are naturally driven to spread their seed to increase their chances of leaving behind lots of their genes (dominate) .And females are driven to be more “selective ” and find a “mate” that not only appears to have healthy genes (more likely to produce healthy offspring) but more likely to be able to provide and protect her cubs?Mates who are willing to “invest’ in the potential for mating with her are also more likely to stick around long enough to rear the offspring to an age they can care for themselves.
Its survival of the fittest.
I noticed in the OP the cave women .One on the right has scratches on her face. Must have been in a cat fight with another female threatening to steal her mate away.
“I credit my fine education in the liberal arts for my above-average writing abilities”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Pull the other one, it shoots hot buttered popcorn. Your writing abilities are merely mediocre. AT BEST.
“The ’90s were a fruitful time for angsty, depressing girl music that I’m sufficiently comfortable in my manliness to admit I enjoy.”
He likes music that is filled with fear and depression? And he likes to hear THAT coming from girls? Sorry, d00d, but you’re NOT secure in your manhood, or you wouldn’t feel any need to get it up by tearing us down.
And I don’t believe that “penthouse office” shit, either. Dollars to doughnuts this troll is a Secret Internet Fatty living in Grandma’s basement. We already know that Roosh can’t even scrape up the money for shampoo…
Quote :Whatever happened to coffee dates or catching a free concert if you live in a city? END
That’s for people with an imagination .Probably for people that aren’t looking to barter a “steak dinner ” in exchange for a wild night of hot sex with an “attractive woman.”
LOL!
lana, d’you want to know how to do blockquotes? Makes it easier to keep track of stuff.
Please Kittehserf ,
I’m more than humble to admit I am technology handicapped. Would appreciate you help .((((HUGSS))) I like learning too.
So’m I, lana, I didn’t know how to do html code at all before I joined manboobz.
Okay, if you scroll down to the comments in the Welcome Package (did you get one, btw? If not, here it is!) you’ll see Argenti’s got the codes for doing bold, italics, blockquotes and all written out. 🙂
auggz: Ah, I see. I have seen white ‘pro-femininity’ women advocate that [their stereotyped view of] Asian women is a good model for white women to model themselves after, though.
****
And now, in the “something to make an MRA’s brain explode” category, something completely different!
http://972mag.com/woman-fined-140-a-day-for-refusing-to-circumcise-son/82441/
Summary: Israeli woman getting a divorce. She has custody of the son. Father wants son circumcised according to Jewish custom; mom does not, after having educated herself about the practice. Israeli rabbinical court has levied a $140+/day fine on the woman to force her.
So we have a woman, in a divorce case, attempting to PREVENT the circumcision of her son, while the father (who, if the MRM had their say, would be able to make the decision unilaterally) wants the kid to get bobbed.
I really, really want to see them try to process this one.
I can’t bring myself to read that Buzzfeed thing about Roosh. Is it seriously an interview? Like one where they aren’t making fun of him? Why.
Couldn’t help myself…I corrected his “above-average writing” and turned it into something that actually makes sense:
Ahem (cracks knuckles): An inflated ego and unwarranted high self-regard are among the most unattractive traits in a man. “Confidence” grounded in years of being told he’s a unique and special snowflake for no other reason than he was born male renders a man an insufferable turd who thinks the world revolves around him.
Fixed: Unnecessary verbosity, les mots injustes, and gendered projection.
See how much better that works?
freemage – not to mention that the woman’s the one unemployed and unable to afford the fines. And the rabbi’s talking out of his arse with his “she’s objecting to it to bring her husband back” given the child’s a year old and husband presumably didn’t have a problem with him not being circumcised until now. Sounds more like a power play and husband being a shitbag than anything else.
Quote Augziliary :freemage, I was referring to white women who are sexist against women, because they want to “restore femininity”(special snowflake syndrome). Not just other people thinking that white women are “perfect wives”. I don’t usually see asian women doing that special snowflake thing with their race and gender, not that it never happens… END
Yes .I have met quite a few female misogynist . They hate women . What they say about women is self effacing and indicates a deep level of self loathing.
Its not even like they have a particular beef with some specific radical feminist that hates all men. They just jump on the women are evil train .Parroting what the MRA’s say about “wominz” .And how horrible it is how evil women treat them .They are “ashamed to be a woman.” Then the MRA pats them on the head and gives them the attention they are seeking . Your our kind of gal .You are not like the rest .(special unique female )
Testing fancy link abilities… Pic sort of MRA related?
I don’t know if this is right .Sorry for me testing it .