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Check out my review of Michael Kimmel’s Angry White Men on The American Prospect

What you'll say to yourself if you don't read my piece right away
What you’ll say to yourself if you don’t read my piece right away

I‘ve got a nice long review essay on Michael Kimmel’s new book Angry White Men: American Masculinity at the End of an Era up at the American Prospect. Check it out!

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Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

cloudiah – Very punny. Fin me a new laugh box, I think mine combusted.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Careful, Alice, we don’t want him thinking we go around kicking guys in the balls…and especially not the flat ones!

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Bina – Of course, you’re right.

TO ALL MRA DUDES: THE PREVIOUS POST WAS AN ANALOGY. IF YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT AN ANALOGY IS, GO GOOGLE IT.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Cloudiah, that was a whale of a pun!

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

cloudiah – Someone somewhere is crying leftist-pinko-atheist-feminst-black-Furrinati-Muslim-gay-Freemanson-commie-birther conspiracy for that one.

But Zimmerman being an asshole. Yeah, who ISN’T surprised by this point?

(Except his league of racist defenders of course.)

cloudiah
6 years ago

I love a good pun, but can’t really take credit — it’s a phrase Wikipedia editors are using on the Cetaceans page wherever they don’t have a whale drawing. But I made the meme, it’s my meme, and I’m very proud of my meme. And I like saying meme out loud.

La Strega
6 years ago

Has there ever been an MRA troll who had control of subject verb agreement, like ever?

Galunadi
Galunadi
6 years ago

I’ve actually heard Zimmerman’s recent legal tangles excused as “well, who wouldn’t have problems after he was unfairly made the most hated vigilante ever? What did people expect to happen?”

This, of course, (besides being utter hogwash) conveniently ignores his violent history

Galunadi
Galunadi
6 years ago

The whale meme rocks 🙂

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

But Zimmerman being an asshole. Yeah, who ISN’T surprised by this point?

(Except his league of racist defenders of course.)

Apparently his league of racist defenders are liking him less when his victim isn’t a black teenager. Now that his victim is white, he’s showing psychopathic tendencies, per Geraldo.

naltia
naltia
6 years ago

“and how many definitions of rape in studies or in a legal system make it impossible for a woman to rape a man.”

This statement would have been correct before 2011. At that time, the FBI’s definition of rape was, “The carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.”

It was a feminist campaign, known as “Rape is Rape,” that convinced the FBI to change their definition to, “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

It’s thanks to feminists that male victims are now included in rape statistics.

http://www.feminist.org/nomoreexcuses/rapeisrape.asp
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/recent-program-updates/new-rape-definition-frequently-asked-questions

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“Has there ever been an “interesting” troll?”

Tom “hard chairs are misandry // female penguins are whores” Martin. Back when that was what he ranted about.

“Also, last I checked the National Coalition for Men is suing the federal government for discrimination against men in terms of the U. S. Selective Service System.”

I am so going to fact check that.

Also, the cetacean joke is awesome.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Well lookie here, they are suing the gov’n — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coalition_for_Men#Today

Funny how making women register would entail women being allowed in all the same roles as men, which is, you know, kinda feminist.

kittehserf
6 years ago

That cetacean joke has me blubbering, I’m laughing so much.

cloudiah
6 years ago

If you really want to laugh so hard it hurts, watch this:

kittehserf
6 years ago

Love it! Reminds me of a friend’s dog who was nicknamed the Bronson the Shark-Killer after he leapt on an inflatable shark in a pool and savaged it to death. 😀

Ally S
6 years ago

cloudiah, that video made my evening.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Argenti – Okay, I grant you guys Martin. Anyone else?

Snork Maiden
6 years ago

Maybe I shouldn’t stick my neck out here, as a newbie, but I didn’t find the book review all that helpful because it gives more words to criticizing what is not in the book, rather than analyzing what is. Not that I disagree with what you say about MRAs, but I found the Guardian review more helpful.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Hi, Snork Maiden, welcome!

I loved the Moomin stories as a kid. 🙂

Snork Maiden
6 years ago

Thanks 🙂
Yeah, me too (obviously).

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Welcome, Snork Maiden!

I see the review as David trying to point out an aspect that the book seemed to have gotten wrong, one that he was particularly familiar with. I’d agree it wasn’t exactly styled as a “review the whole book” dealie, more of a “review by critiquing one piece of it.”

Gia
Gia
6 years ago

MRAs in India?! Are you fucking kidding me, dude? This proves that these people are even more sick and downright delusional than I initially tought. Idiots.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
6 years ago

Off-topic, Price really isn’t trying to hide anything here: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/11/20/feminism-peaked-in-1990s/#comment-201161

Daily reminder he married a feminist.

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

Did we really need the word “androchratic”?

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

these people are even more sick and downright delusional

Not sick. Horrible, hate-filled, desperate, ignorant, bigoted, entitled, maybe even self-deluding. But please don’t confuse MRAs with people with mental health issues. It is ableist, gives MRAs a let-off and insults those of us with mental health issues.

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
6 years ago

And Price had the gall in the past to call feminists supremacist: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/02/16/ny-times-finally-admitting-theres-a-problem/

I left that link and the crucial quote in his current article, let’s see how this goes.

freemage
freemage
6 years ago

I’m still attempting to eliminate ablist language from my own speech. Would “warped” be an acceptable alternative to the usual mental-illness terms used as epithets?

****

Honestly, I think David’s original piece here is more “critique” than “review”, which is actually good; I find critiques to be more useful for a continuing conversation.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Yup, there are MRAs in India. Or, as we prefer to call them, RAPE GANGS ON BUSES.

Gia
Gia
6 years ago

@titianblue

Now that I think about, I realize you’re right. It is incorrect and unfair indeed to associate these scums with people with mental health issues, I’ve had some in my own family, so yes, you are truly right about that. I will try to do my best not to repeat it in the future.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Re: non-ablist words to express how bizarre, terrible, etc. people can be: Is “addled” appropriate? And yeah, how about “twisted”? Or “deranged”? Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@Gia, thanks and that’s all anyone can ask.

Not “deranged”, @Bina, that has definitely has mental health implications. Not sure how anyone else feels about the others?

@freemage A “critique” rather than a “review” sums it up nicely.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
6 years ago

I find the best strategy is to describe the action and not the person. When people start trying to do fine a whole person off of their actions, people tend to make some leaps and missteps.

When I studied for real estate licensure, the same idea came up. You get into discriminatory practices by talking about the people you expect to live in a property instead of just talking about the property.

MRAs pull some assholish stuff and I am not asking people to pull punches. Tone trolling FTL. I just think directing our anger at the actions helps avoid using ablist, sexist, and other unnecessary words which demean people by comparing them to what MRAs do.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

I’ve been trying to eliminate ableist language from my vocabulary. It really opens your eyes when you realize how many words there are in the English language that equate mental illness with something bad! Can you say, “blind spot!”

I’ve found “stupid,” “willfully ignorant,” “asshole,” and “wrong” to be good ways to describe MRAs. And of course, all the permutations of “shit.”

What about, “off base” or “out of left field?” Those are both baseball analogies, IIRC.

And the review was good, it sounds like an interesting book even if it didn’t get the MRM quite right.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

*Leaping in uninvited*
Youse guys have really changed the way I thought about language. One of my best friends really dislikes the word b*tch so I’ve really tried hard to stop (its super hard guys) also ‘gay’. I’m basically a terrible person.
The mental health words are harder. I suppose because I have a lot of exposure to mental health of all varieties, to call something ‘insane’ is somehow removed. It’s partly ‘well of course I don’t mean it like that’ and partly because there don’t seem to be enough words for when someone is behaving very ‘other’. Also, if there is someone having a manic episode I wouldn’t think, woah, that person’s acting insane! That would be the last thing I’d think.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

@Sparky
When I was a child I asked my dad why my stepmum didn’t like me. He said it wasn’t that she didn’t like me, but that I was a bit ‘left field’.
Doesn’t left field just mean a bit different? Not being an entire d*ckhead?
Oh dear…

kittehserf
6 years ago

I’ve never heard “out of left field” or just “left field” as meaning an arsehole either, daintydougal. It’s defined as meaning odd, strange, eccentric, or wrt the arts, radical or experimental.

neuroticbeagle
6 years ago

yeah- for me ‘left field’ means being odd, different- not in a bad way though. ‘off base’ means being completely wrong- mras can be off base- although it’s more like they’re off the fucking field.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

daintdougal said:

“Youse guys have really changed the way I thought about language.”

Me too! Yet another fringe benefit of manboobz. 🙂

And I wasn’t sure about “left field.” I think I’ll avoid it. There are so many other words and phrases to describe MRAs wrongness. 🙂

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Phew, thats ok then! My stepmum bought me nigtmare before christmas on vhs one christmas (I was utterly thrilled) but she made the point that I wasn’t allowed to watch it in her house. I guess ‘left field’ means different things to different people!

What about delusional?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Wilfully delusional, perhaps? There’s nothing in their disgusting ideas that can’t be corrected, but they don’t want to see women as human.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Is “inane” appropriate, or is that too close to “insane”?

kittehserf
6 years ago

No, it’s quite different, and inane is the kindest thing one can say about a lot of their ideas.

I love the synonyms that come up for it:

inane
ɪˈneɪn/
adjective
adjective: inane

1.
lacking sense or meaning; silly.
“don’t badger people with inane questions”
synonyms: silly, foolish, stupid, fatuous, idiotic, absurd, ridiculous, ludicrous, laughable, risible, imbecilic, moronic, cretinous, unintelligent, witless, asinine, pointless, senseless, frivolous, nonsensical, brainless, mindless, thoughtless, vacuous, vapid, empty-headed …

The MRM in a nutshell!

freemage
freemage
6 years ago

Yeah, ‘inane’ is an excellent option, and often the first one I jump to if I’m revising a post I just typed.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Inane is too tame. Like a clown telling pointless jokes. Probably not like that at all.
Willfully ignorant is good kittehserf. You could pretty much put willfully in front of any insult and it would describe them quite well.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Except you didn’t say willfully ignorant, you said willfully delusional!
Talk about freudian slip!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Chie Satonaka

Rogan has a history of misogyny.

I double-taked, then lulzed.

RE: Alice

Hey, I found orion kinda entertaining. He declared himself my gay porn muse! (He wasn’t.)

RE: daintydougal

What about delusional?

Nah, I wouldn’t. I’ve met folks who others would consider deluded and somehow, they manage not to be assholes to everyone around them. A delusion itself isn’t the problem, it’s how someone interacts with it. (After all, that guy who’s positive the government is watching his every move may just live a life of quiet fear, never harming a soul around him.)

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

Stupid MRA’s making it impossible to use language to describe them! As if they weren’t bad enough!

I suppose just liars sums them up quite well.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

But then the person who lives a life of quiet fear with their delusions is just as delusional as the person who kills 8 people due to their delusions. As you said it’s the actions that accompany the condition. Being delusional in and of itself isn’t bad. Calling a bad delusional person delusional doesn’t necessarily reflect on all the non bad delusional people?