Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Mellowness is so underrated. Especially for a longterm thing, neh? Can you imagine living with a preachy, faux-intellectual itchy-stick-up-the-rear type like Dalrock? oof.
even in the (unlikely) event that he’s a tight bodied hottie with a luxurious head of hair, that kind of personality wears thin after awhile.
Quote:It’s so strange. I actually did marry a guy twelve years my senior, a couple weeks before turning 22, and then promptly quit my job and popped out four kids in rapid succession. I guess redpillers and mras everywhere would approve. END
But you were already “old” .
@lana Hey, I was trying to get started before then, but had no luck finding anyone who was both pleasant company AND insane enough to volunteer for reproducing with a teenager. 😀
…perhaps those tend to be mutually exclusive categories…
LOL about the hottie with hair and an unbearable personality – I just finished reading the latest Phryne Fisher book and one of the main characters is like that. Stunningly (and improbably) beautiful guy, very smart in a Sherlock Holmesian way (which is more than could be said for Wannabe Dalrock), but a cold fish and total arsehole for most of the book.
You’re so right about mellowness being underrated. Mellowness, contentedness, happiness – do these guys grasp how fulfilling it is to see someone you love like that, and how easy it is to live with them? (Rhetorical question, of course, since they don’t love anyone ‘cept their boners.) Just seeing Mr K that way, when all those things were notably absent from his earthly days, is wonderful.
Im “old fashioned’ too in my way . I got married at 20 to my then 22 year old husband. He decided to marry me even though I was a slut because he and I had a baby when I was 14 and he 16 .(Im a big time whore ya know) Then we had another baby when I was 21 he 23 .Then we had another baby when I was 28 and he 30 . Now I am 45 and he is 47 and we have two grandchildren.Married 25 years .
Holding out for a peer? We were “peers” we grew up together . Not saying its the best way to go for everyone . But that’s the point. There is no “formula’ or “game”.
Re: Not sure why the MRA crowd thinks marrying a youngster is the smooth path. They should talk to some guys who’ve actually done it. ha ha ha
I’m quite sure it’s not the ‘smooth path’, which is part of why most men actually tend to choose partners close to their own age. (Male politicians, celebrities, business men, intellectuals *for the most part* choose partners close to their own age, though some go much younger or older). I’m equally certain it’s the right path *for me*, though.
Re: He decided to marry me even though I was a slut because he and I had a baby when I was 14 and he 16 .(Im a big time whore ya know)
No, you weren’t. There are a lot of people (including a lot of cultural liberals and feminists I know) who would be extremely critical of your choice to have babies young, but I wouldn’t. Who you love is your business, not mine.
Re: And they are kidding themselves if they think the under 20 group in any where near a significant # ‘s are interested in being “courted” by a guy in his 30′s +.Sure maybe a very handsome guy with a great personality .But a young “attractive” women typically wants to date a YOUNG attractive guy . When I was in that age group ? If an older man hit on me I immediately considered him a complete pervert .
Very tolerant of you, I’m sure. I don’t know who these folks hitting on you were, maybe they were creeps, but I don’t see why a lot of people on your side of the fence have a need to shame those of us who prefer much younger or much older partners. (As long as everyone’s 18 or over, of course). Believe it or not, there are some 18 and 19 year old women (and men) out there who are looking for much older partners- maybe for emotional stability and protection, maybe for a quasi-parental figure, maybe because they just like that look, and maybe for economic reasons. And likewise, there are older men and women who prefer much younger partners. They aren’t typical, but I fail to see why only what’s ‘typical’ is acceptable.
Relationships should be off-limits when one person is under 18, but otherwise, I don’t believe in shaming men and women who to date/marry younger or older partners, any more than I believe in criticizing those who prefer to date people of their own sex, of a different race, or of a different religion.
Hector St Clare – if you do blockquotes it’ll be much easier to follow what you’re quoting and what are your own comments. They’re not hard to code:
without spaces (if WP chooses to show the symbols here!)
On the matter of older men and younger women – have you actually read the MRA stuff we’re talking about? These guys are most definitely creepers. They’re all about how gross women are once they hit
3025… it gets younger and younger, and yes, they are complaining about the very concept of an age of consent half the time. Too many of them want girls, and they all want women as property, not equal human beings.Hmm, interesting, it turned the sample into an actual blockquote!
[blockquote] text [/blockquote]
but subsitute the arrow brackets for the square ones.
Quote :(As long as everyone’s 18 or over, of course). END
Where I live the age of consent is 17 . And sorry I know lots of 17 ,18 yo girls. They are grossed out by a 30+ yo hitting on them. Unless he looks 25 and he has a great personality.
Of course there are exceptions and its none of my business.And I have no issue with it . The point is these Dal(not rock) guys just assuming they can tap into an abundance of 17 ,18 ,19 yo old girls as their brides? Um ..no.
Its not shaming its a reality. And I never said it should be “off limits”.
Hi Kitthserf ,
I appreciate your acknowledgement of my posts.
Now I’m hitting one of yours :
On the matter of older men and younger women – have you actually read the MRA stuff we’re talking about? These guys are most definitely creepers. They’re all about how gross women are once they hit 30 25 … it gets younger and younger, and yes, they are complaining about the very concept of an age of consent half the time. Too many of them want girls, and they all want women as property, not equal human beings. END
I will answer. He has either read the manosphere and is a member .Or he has read the manosphere and is a member. JMHO.
LOL I’ll go with option two!
Bina,
This is worth repeating.
You:
Yuppers. Of course, the guys who do all that “friendzone” whining are the same lot who assign women numbers according to their looks, and demand — not like, DEMAND — no less than an 8, preferably a 10. And then go all Sodini when it turns out that merely having good hygiene and a clean house aren’t enough to get those hot babes tumbling around their feet…
Women aren’t all they don’t get. The first thing they don’t get is a clue. END
Its a great post!
Quote :LOL I’ll go with option two! END
I’m still trying to decide.
Lana: Thank you!
And yeah, I get the distinct “MRA troll in deep stealth mode” vibe from our latest interloper. Guys who fetishize younger women are very tetchy when their weirdness is pointed out and justly criticized. And they roll out a very particular set of justifications for it, too. Usually along the lines of “Oh yeah? Well, they WANT us!”
But I’ll tell you something…when I was 18, I actually had nightmares about being forced to marry an older man. Just passing the milestone of legal marriageability brought out all the latent anxieties. And in my waking world, I was literally walking a minefield when it came to sidestepping those letchy guys. And that minefield appeared practically the day my breasts started to sprout. Meaning I’d already had to watch out for eight years by then. Hence the latent anxieties!
It’s fun being able to tell some old creepster “You’re too young for me.” Sorry, fellahs, prime age is 412 years, the rest of you just don’t cut it.
(Mr K and I never can decide who’s older – he only had 41 earth-years, but he’s had a lot since!)
Bina ,
Got it .
Um I was 15 (developed in fact already had a child (whore) when my 30 something year old boss(married with a pregnant wife ) was hitting on me . More disgusting when I was 17 and a 50 something yo married man I worked was hitting on me .(writing me notes when I was engaged) .
I don’t know . They disgusted me . Reading the manosphere maybe they weren’t getting “gauranteed sex’ from the wife? Or maybe they just wanted a young hot fresh thing?
Who knows either way I saw them (and every man that age) that tried to get with me as a complete pervert.
LOL!!!
Quote:It’s fun being able to tell some old creepster “You’re too young for me.” Sorry, fellahs, prime age is 412 years, the rest of you just don’t cut it.
(Mr K and I never can decide who’s older – he only had 41 earth-years, but he’s had a lot since!) END
LOL!! Hi – Im 31 -34 . I will only accept a man 75 or older.
Right, home time for me, catch yez later!
At 42 ??? I got hit on by this man in a vitamin store LOL>>He had to be 68 .So I guess old is like a box of chocolates. He couldn’t get the 18 year olds so might as well hop on the 40 yo train. Maybe she will go for him?
I didn’t .
46 here, and definitely not missing 18. Or the creepers that went with the territory…euuuuuugh.
I think it is fairly obvious that this d00d and others like him view courting as shopping for a household appliance and not the search for a life partner.
I just think its funny . Like its a threat to 31-34 year old women.
Like OK we will just go for teen agers .LOL>>
“Oh my gawds. We 31-34 year old women should be so scared that misogynistic assholes don’t want to date us! Now we’ll NEVER get married!” *faints*
Said no woman ever.
yeah, I have to suspect the percentage of 18 year olds who are actually into 30somethings is… small. But not nonexistent. I know I was into Mr. CB when we were 18/30, respectively, and I tried feebly telegraphing some interest at a couple of points, but neither of us really thought the other could *possibly* be interested, so nothing happened between us for a few years til I grew enough courage to be direct about it.
Meantime, we’d both had more “age-appropriate” relationships that imploded, so why not?
Also, I was a little drunk.
at first my friends were like, “for real? God, you are weird” so I have to suspect it’s a bit of a niche taste. They accepted it, though– I like to think that at some level we make sense together. Eh.
I wouldn’t try to harangue anyone else into running their sex lives my way, so I dont really get why Dalrock harangues women… for what? Being human?
on the flip side, a friend of mine is married to a guy 12 years her junior. She’s 37, he’s 25. She said the first thing she did after he asked her out as Google him to find out if he was too young for her.
“He WAS!” haha But, you know, they make sense together too.